Wrist position in take back

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by HunterST, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    During the forehand take back, is it proper technique to have the wrist cocked to where the hand and the forearm almost make a right angle ASAP? Or, can the wrist be in a more neutral position during the takeback and then reach that position once the swing begins?
     
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  2. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Well, can you be more explicit? With stuff like videos or pictures... i have trouble imagining what you're saying.
     
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  3. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    I have my wrist basically in a neutral position.
     
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  4. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Neutral.
    ....
     
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  5. watungga

    watungga Semi-Pro

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    A prepared bent wrist on take back is very demanding to the wrist itself. You'll come across faulty swing when your wrist starts complaining. A relaxed wrist is not on bent position.

    The whole point is not to think of your wrist at all, but the racquet take back itself. Coz when you start your forward swing, you will just PULL the handle of the racquet, like pulling a doorknob from behind. You're pulling the handle, which leaves the racquet head trailing on the start of your swing. This automatically bends your wrist, and you'll realize its in relaxed mood as you attempt to throw the racquet forward.

    Smile and swing.
     
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  6. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    great response! thanks.
     
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  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Question becomes, WTA or ATP takeback of your wrist position.
    WTA, it's laid back early as the arm is moving back.
    ATP, it's lagging behind the forearm and elbow, to loop at the back like a service motion.
    Or, maybe old school eastern vs new school SW forehand wrist positions.
     
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  8. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Good point, Lee. I noticed that when I was looking at videos. Clijsters and Sharapova got the wrist laid back early while Tsonga and Federer had more of a lag.
     
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  9. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Neutral.

    10 char
     
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  10. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    Yeah, good point. WTA does seem to lay the wrist back very early. ATP basically lets the wrist lay back naturally as the racket lags behind.
     
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  11. lpth

    lpth New User

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    Using Fed as model the wrist is flexed

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. lpth

    lpth New User

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    sorry my mistake, I meant extended not flexed
     
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  13. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    The position that's important is later in the prep at the ptd. But point taken, Fed is a bit extended, not totally neutral. His grip is a the reason I think. Still, his wrist isn't tightly cocked back. It's still pretty relaxed by the time he's in ptd, so I think of it as more neutral.
     
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  14. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    i keep it neutral during take-back...
     
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  15. eidolonshinobi

    eidolonshinobi Professional

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    I think the ATP style really enforces the relaxed motion of the upcoming swing.

    I know when I have my racquet up at takeback, I know my supporting hand (left) has some of the weight of the racquet by keeping it steadily upright.
     
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  16. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    I like players I work with to have a little wrist extension in their prep phase.

    Cheers
     
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  17. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    This is what has worked for me and I'd argue Federer basically does this. My extension is relaxed and just sort of allows the wrist to be cocked back and the racket head pointing up during the take back.

    However, some players seem to stay more neutral and then allow the extension to be driven by the stroke. My issue with this is that it seemed to actually slow my prep phase when I attempted to hit this way. Murray seems to hit this way and there's a lot of obvious extension during the layback of the forward swing. It seems Nadal has a more complex stroke and he goes from extension to almost neutral and then back to extension.
     
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  18. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Federer doesn't have extension on the take-back...

    [​IMG]

    Looks neutral to me...

    [​IMG]

    One more time...

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Looks like slight extension to me in all three pictures, so I guess we slightly disagree.:) But I concur that it is close to neutral.

    In any case, the extension becomes much more pronounced during the forward swing.
     
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  20. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Something to consider

    Like Lee pointed out, WTA lays it back almost right away and ATP waits.

    WTA players, while still worlds better than rec players, are closer to our ability level than ATP players. Could that mean an immediate lay back makes for a stroke that is easier to replicate?
     
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  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    My example of WTA vs ATP was a joke.
    Connors and McEnroe, as well as lots of old timers, used "WTA" style takeback.
    So instead of WTA/ATP, maybe old school vs new school?
    Stosur is new school.
    As for what is harder? Depends if you like to swing away and live with mishits, or do you need precision of swing from start to finish?
     
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  22. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    It's also because most women are more flexible than men. Many WTA players have even lower racquet drop than Federer at serve, should we copy it? Women and men tennis is different, because men and women have different bodies and therefore fight with different weapons.
     
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  23. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Any photos of top 50 WTAs laying back their wrists on take-back?
     
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  24. lpth

    lpth New User

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    I don't see it as a ATP vs WTA thing, for me its two different techniques: take back with racquet vertically or take back with racquet horizontally.
    With racquet vertically wrist is extended
    With racquet horizontally wrist is neutral
    Who uses horizontal take back? Agassi
    Who uses vertical take back? Nadal
     
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  25. lpth

    lpth New User

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    Just a note about what I wrote.
    At the end of the take back both Agassi and Nadal have the racquet pointing to the sky
    So the difference is not at the end of the take back but how they take the racquet back.
     
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  26. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Sharapova....

    [​IMG]

    Difficult to see the wrist...
     
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  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Old school, what I jokingly call WTA, the player is taught to lay the wrist back while in prep position, both hands on the racket.
    New school, or ATP, the elbow leads the motion back, the face closes, then everything goes back.
     
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  28. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Rafa has a fairly quick layback of the wrist. I think it varies from player to player. Not sure if there is a right way.
     
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  29. watungga

    watungga Semi-Pro

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    If we all do a relaxed wrist and letting the forearm start the acceleration out front, either ATP or WTA, the start of the racquet whip are all the same. We will hear that wonderful pop sound from our racquet.

    It was just too hard for me to maintain a relaxed wrist when the ball is coming in too fast, or when my legs not moving well. Watching Fed made me think that prepping anticipation would help me relax my wrist.
     
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  30. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    I'm not sure of anybody who lays back the wrist on takeback. Doesn't everybody just takeback and relax the wrist?

    If you are referring to the stretch-shortening cycle mentioned earlier, most of the hard-hitting professionals (both WTA and ATP) do this. The men's SSC is much more pronounced than the women's because of a couple things: 1) how much faster the men swing their arm, 2) The women tend to arm the ball a lot more than men.

    But here's some WTA players doing it:

    Justine Henin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBioEMX2IdM
    Sam Stosur : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_mNZGq8TfE
    Ana Ivanovic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxUHk4VYBIg
    Maria Kirilenko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VtEV3X-9Yo
     
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  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I think the two hotties pull their wrists back as they takeback, maybe almost similar to Federer's style, but both also keep the rackethead up, like Fed.
    Do a vid of Serena, Date, or Maria, focusing on the beginning of the takeback, not the loop at the back.
     
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  32. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Not referring to SSC, rather posters saying that WTAs have their wrists laid back at takeback... dunno if they mean wrist extension or supination... just asking for evidence to their assertion.
     
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  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Guys guys, don't you guys ever watch CHRIS EVERTS?
    A whole generation of players is using that same takeback....while two handed still, the hitting wrist lays back and leads the takeback with the TIP of the racket.....not the elbow like lots of ATP pros. While this usually promotes a lower, less loopy stroke at the back, it is evident with the wrist laid back, almost like FEDERER.
     
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  34. hawk eye

    hawk eye Hall of Fame

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    Chris Evert in full flow:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9WOcEIjGJQ

    Way more elegant than most WTA and ATP players i have to say.

    But like most WTA players, including Ivanovic and Kirilenko, she doesn't have a ptd motion involved because the wrist get laid back early (and they don't lead the takeback with the elbow).

    And patting the dog is essential for an effective ssc, as i have understood.

    But what the heck, 99 % of us would wish we could hit a FH like Chris does in the video. Probably she's more of a cat person..
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
    #34
  35. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    I was too busy looking at Evert in that video to even notice anything else. Did she say anything or demonstrate anything important?
     
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  36. lpth

    lpth New User

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    Finally I understand the ATP vs WTA in the take back.
    Anticipate in the take back the wrist extension that could occur later in the swing to contact.

    One thing is slightly extending your wrist in the take back so the racquet maintains a vertical position, which was what I thought was being discussed.
    Another is extending your wrist in the take back so you maintain the same wrist/racquet relationship throughout the entire motion.

    Agree its a valid point, so my mistake for not understanding what was being discussed. Sorry.
     
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