WTA pro in an Open tournament

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by ian2, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    Got a chance to see a former (and hopefully, future) WTA pro Vasilisa Bardina in action at the Boulder Open tournament. She was ranked as high as #48 on WTA in 2007, before being forced to retire due to injuries. I believe she's looking to make a comeback early next year.

    Well I didn't know any of that while watching the ladies Open final yesterday. Had I known, my jaw might have been saved from being dropped to the floor, repeatedly. The woman she played (also Russian as it happened) was a former college player, and has had a lot of success in the local Open tournaments lately, especially in doubles and mixed - a very good player obviously, one of the top women players in Denver.

    What I saw was an illustration of the differences between a good Open level player vs. a (somewhat rusty) pro player, and a remainder of how many levels there are in this sport. The match ended in under an hour with 6:0 6:1 score. That one lost game was due to Vasilisa double-faulting three times in a row, then drilling an easy forehand into the net, something that she explained in an interview to the local paper as a lapse in concentration... though to me, it definitely looked like a charity game donated to her dispirited opponent, who aside from that game haven't won more than a handful of points in the entire match.

    So here you have it: a good Open level player struggling to win a few points... in NTRP terms, the disparity was like a 3.0 playing a 5.0. It was quite an amazing display. When pros are battling each other, especially when viewed on TV, it's easy to lose sight of just how humongous the gap in ability is between them and the mere good players.

    I'm a fan now, and will be watching her career going forward... hopefully she can get back on tour and do some damage there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
    #1
  2. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,276
    It reminds me of when Gilbert Arenas, guard for The Warriors at the time, was in his rookie season, so he played a local rec league (equivalent to Open level tennis with former college players).

    Guys thought since he didn't get off the bench as a rookie he wasn't that good. He AVERAGED over 50 points a game and thoroughly dominated.

    Pros vs. amateurs: HUGE difference. Cool story.
     
    #2
  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    37,323
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Yeah, MattBarnes used to TOOL the KezarStadium 3 on 3 guys, and he could barely make the starting lineup of the Warriors or Lakers. He'd average 50, then play an NBA game and average 11.
    His competition would sometimes include JasonKidd (7 years ago) and some borderline NBA -top college kids.
    Last tourney I watched, maybe 4 years ago, JoshChildress was scoring easy 30+, and went to Europe.
     
    #3
  4. Arafel

    Arafel Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,159
    Wish her luck then. She is playing this week in the USTA National Playoff for a position in the qualifying draw in the US Open. (She won the Intermountain qualifier). I had the privilege of playing her last year in the Colorado State Open. She drubbed me, but I enjoyed playing her, and that was before she started seriously training again.
     
    #4
  5. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,079
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    Nice post.

    Not surprising of course. Probably the Open level player is at most a 6.0, and the pro is a 7.0. Comparing this to a 3.0 vs a 5.0 is overkill - even with a 4.0 versus a 3.0, I would expect the 4.0 to consistently win by bagels and breadsticks.
     
    #5
  6. DEH

    DEH Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Arvada CO
    This thread kinda goes along with this thread. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=392204

    If you watch his videos you can see her changing here serving style and that maybe why she lost concentration. Man I wish I would have know I would have love to see her play and take my daughter. Thanks for sharing.
     
    #6
  7. Serveand...

    Serveand... Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    hey Ian, what racket was she using?
     
    #7
  8. Serveand...

    Serveand... Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    hey Ian, what racket was she using?
     
    #8
  9. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,186
    Location:
    tennis courts
    lol yup most casual fans are cluless
     
    #9
  10. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    I didn't notice. This is odd. I sure know what all of the players used in men open singles and doubles yesterday, but drawing a blank on what Vasilisa used, or Yana (her opponent). Must have been overwhelmed by the spectacle that unfolded, LOL.

    BTW (and I know this is going to be controversial), I'm pretty sure Vasilisa could have taken out either of the men finalists... nearly the same level of power but much more purpose and precision to her game.
     
    #10
  11. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,885
    Good story. I know a young lady here in town. She played in every GS and got as high as 70 or so. She would stomp most any women college, very top junior and even low level futures player. She's been off the tour for about 9-10 years now does not really play tennis any more. On the rare occasion she does play, watch out......!
     
    #11
  12. FuriousYellow

    FuriousYellow Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,485
    Or in women's professional tennis terms, Serena Williams playing the rest of the WTA.:-D
     
    #12
  13. Black Knight

    Black Knight New User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    41
    So Ian, where exactly did the Open level player lose it?
    I wouldn't imagine their strokes to be that different in pace? Was it the depth of shot, shot selection, where was the difference most apparent?
     
    #13
  14. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    Um...

    ...their strokes were very different in pace. I got to warm up Vasilisi for her quarter final match, and she hits her groundies much heavier than any of the other women. She was also quicker than her competition in this tournament, so she rarely had to hit a defensive shot even against a hard hit or angled ball. Also has one of the best serves I've seen in all of women's tennis, my guess is up around 120 mph. So in the final, Vasilisi hit probably 8 aces and most of her serves were service winners. The few that came back, she was able to pretty much hammer away on the next ball. Jana, her opponent in the final, who is a fine player in her own right, unfortunately didn't serve well in the final...a bunch of doubles, low percentage on her first serve. Bardina hit so many winners and forced so many errors on Jana's service games that Jana never really got into the match.

    So, a lesson in what I've been preaching for some time: two most important shots in the game, serve and return, in that order. If you're dominant on those two strokes, not much your opponent can do, and that's the way this final played out.

    I'm not sure what she's using for a racket. It was black, and I didn't see any graphics. She's played with Head in the past, so it might be a copy of the new Head that Maria Sharapova is now using...
     
    #14
  15. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    She had also played in the last 2 Cryan Open tournaments here in NJ in 2009 and 2010. The story that I heard is that she left the tour to escape her abusive father-coach who broke her leg for losing a match. She came to the US with basically nothing and was staying with people and trying to play open tournaments just to get by. Anyway, it was a very sad story, and I wish her nothing but the best in her quest to get back to the tour. She didn't play the tournament this year (I guess she relocated to CO).

    In 2009, she won very easily, but last year, she lost a thrilling 3-set final against a local girl, Emma Levy, who plays #2 at Tulane. That was an incredible match to watch.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
    #15
  16. burosky

    burosky Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,035
    Location:
    CA
    Anyone familiar with that show "Joes vs. Pros"? I've only seen a few episodes but what you described here was pretty much the same situation that plays out more often than not on the show.
     
    #16
  17. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    skiracer, thanks for answering that question. I agree with all you've said. I'd add that there was one single thing that jumped at me the most: the purpose behind each shot. I can't quite explain it: it wasn't just the placement combined with power, but something else that eludes me... perhaps the instinctual knowledge where to hit the ball in a given point situation? The end result was that, in this match anyway, Vasilisa wasn't hitting any neutral, let alone defensive, shots. The first shot she hit in a point immediately forced her opponent into a defensive position, and the next shot, if needed, would build on that advantage.
     
    #17
  18. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    Arafel, sounds like you have a story to tell! Would you share? How was it playing against a bona-fide (albeit a somewhat rusty) pro?
     
    #18
  19. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    Ah, good find! She's been working with Jeff Salzenstein lately, from what I'm reading. Not sure if he's going to be her coach or this is just a temporary arrangement.
     
    #19
  20. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    Abusive father, yes. Broke her leg for losing a match - as far as I know, no.

    I hope she'll do well in the US Open National Playoffs later this month, and gets the wild card. BTW, the woman she beat in that match I described, Yana Ruegsegger, also advanced to US Open National Playoffs, in mixed doubles with Miikka Keronen. Good luck to all of them!
     
    #20
  21. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    Yep...

    ...and it's something I noticed in the Men's Open draw, too. It's something we'll work on the next time we hit. Playing Open or above level, to me the strokes are one aspect, but they're playing to a whole different tempo. If I watch a 4.0 or even 4.5 match, the tempo is...hit the ball, maybe with an objective, but probably not...watch it go over the net...wait to see what the opponent is doing...watch the ball come back over the net...maybe start moving to the shot, at this point...repeat, ad nauseum.


    The best players always have a purpose behind each point and in each shot. For the server, before the point, the thought might be "Okay, I've got him off balance, it's 40-15, I'm going for a serve out wide to the forehand, move in, look to cut off the volley cross court for a winner." The receiver might be thinking, "So fine...this jamoke is serving really well. I've got to dig in, get the return back, and make him play. Watch his toss, watch his motion, make a move as soon as the ball leaves his racket, track it down, be a ballhawk, make it!"

    If the point doesn't play out that way, the top players have an ability to adjust but still keep the purpose going. As in "Okay, fine, he picked up that wide serve, now I have a forehand volley, no problem, punch it into the backhand corner, wade in." The returner might be, "Great, got the return in and down low, he made a good volley, track it down, lob over his head and recover because he's been nailing your passing shots..." But the purpose didn't change, for the server it's still "Put the pressure on early, then tighten the vice even more." For the returner it's "Make him play, make him run, make him hit two or three winners to win a point...nobody can keep that up all afternoon."

    Making those on the fly adjustments and still keeping the purpose is pretty amazing stuff, and we all need to work on this kind of tempo. Remember the Men's Final? I think it was about 3-3 in the second set, after Willie Dann won the first set. Willie, who is left handed, served and volleyed, Rich Johnson got to the ball and lobbed topspin over Willie's right shoulder...and Willie switched hands while he was going up for the overhead and put the smash away for a winner...right handed. I was thoroughly impressed, and he's 40 years old. I'm not sure most of the spectators even saw what happened...
     
    #21
  22. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    Yep, way to go...

    ...Colorado players. Mikka and Yana are quite the athletes, and have been dedicated players for a bunch of years, as they are both thirty somethings...the lesson being, Aim High, as they say in the Air Force, and don't let age be a barrier to your aspirations on court...
     
    #22
  23. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    Let me...

    ...follow up with a couple more thoughts on this concept of purposeful tennis. We've heard it said that the great champions...Federer, Nadal, Djoko, become great champions because they play the big points well. I was talking with one of my hitting partners today, and we decided that that is the case because these guys try to play every point well. So when a point that the match hinges on comes along, it's business as usual. I think that's something we can all improve on. Playing every point well doesn't mean going for an incredible winner. It means doing whatever the right thing is in the situation. Today, the guy I was playing, who is really quick and has great strokes, was beating up on me pretty well in the second set even though I was hitting some really good shots and doing a lot of stuff right. What I wasn't doing was getting consistent, rally ball, length on the ground stroke exchanges. I was either going for too much and hitting 6 inches out, or hitting a tentative short ball that let him come in and win the point at net. So I just decided that if I got into a baseline exchange, heavy, deep, cross court was the way to go, and it won me my next service game.

    Your match purpose doesn't have to be all that complex, either. Just because a strategy is simple, straightforward, and logical doesn't mean it's easy. I was talking with another of my buddies, who used to coach for Peter Burwash, whose son now coaches in the Dallas area and had the opportunity to pick the brain of the coach of an ATP top 35 player (I'm not going to so which player, because I don't want to give away his mojo). Here's this guy's strategy in a nutshell, and I'll give you a hint, because he's about 6' 7" and has a huge serve and forehand:

    - Serve out wide on the first serve.

    - Serve to the backhand on the second serve.

    - The default ground stroke goes cross court.

    - Look for a chance to hit a big forehand on your second shot off the ground.

    Not too hard to remember, right? The trick is sticking to it, and executing...
     
    #23
  24. DEH

    DEH Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Arvada CO
    #24
  25. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    #25
  26. tamdoankc

    tamdoankc Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Travelling the world!
    Reminds me of an older guy I used to know when I was a youngster. Former pro from the wood generation. Made it to the finals of every Open tourney in town but always had to default the finals because he's a preacher and didn't play on Sundays. Old school pro with a wooden racquet>Open player with modern equipment.

    Also, my former high school coach was a top 100 player in the early 80s. Plays with a cheap Walmart racquet but still kills.
     
    #26
  27. Black Knight

    Black Knight New User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    41
    Some really interesting comments here. The tempo of the point is something your never really notice unless you are actually playing it yourself. With each ball coming so fast and deep, time and time again, you have little chance I guess, to formulate a plan as it is happening, especially if you are not used to that kind of play. That's probably why Skiracer, you mentioned the need for that plan for each point before you actually get in to it. If you have an idea of what you want to do, and through practice you've gained confidence in your ability to do it each time, then you probably won't be put off as much by that kind of constant pressure.

    I guess it is why a lot of the pros say they gain their practice from matches during the season.

    Nice one! Your posts made for some interesting reading!
     
    #27
  28. Blade0324

    Blade0324 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,568
    Ian and Skiracer, it has been really insightfull reading your posts on this. I wasn't able to make it up to watch the final so I am glad to hear some details besides just seeing the score line.
    You both sound like you have been around the higher levels here is Denver and elsewhere for some time and have a good knowledge of the players. Interesting that you mention this gal working with Salzenstein as we only have a few former ATP guys here in town and he definately has a great rep, wasn't he working with Alexa Glatch for a while too?
    I have a buddy that might be interested in playing some open dubs if either of you are interested perhaps we can find a way to set something up. This is a guy that I have hit with for a while know and played one tourney with. Unfortunately I'm just not good enough to do him justice. He is one of those former ATP top 100 guys here in Denver, just a little older (now 45). Having played competitive event with him I have to agree with you on how he just knows where to go with the ball and what kind of shot. He even has the ability to convey that to me in our match. A fine example is when we would discus where to serve and what serve to hit before a point on my serve as well as him letting me know what he would be doing. Frequently I would tell him I'm going to do X, and he would say no I think you need to do Y and then follow it up with Z. I listened to him and have never had so much success holding serve. He just has a knowledge and understanding that you don't find at a 4.5-5.0 level even. It's not all about pace on serve or other shots for that matter. Knowing what shot to hit at the right time makes such a huge difference, and this creates a kind of anticipation on your opponents response that makes is seem like you always know exactly what they are going to do.
     
    #28
  29. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    Thanks much...

    ...I think you've got some good perceptions. John Newcombe used to call it "preacting." My former coach, Dave Hodge, used to talk about putting a videotape in your head of what you wanted to do on the serve...and then rerunning the video to make it happen.

    There's a drill that another of my former coaches, Sam Winterbotham (now head coach of the Tennessee Vols men's team), used to do with me. And that is, without rushing it, whoever has a ball in his hand starts the point with a serve, play the point out, quick breath, start the next point. No score, the idea is to get the flow, the tempo, that you want in point play and keep it going, build on it.

    Basic pattern play isn't a bad idea, either, as a drill. One I do with one of my hitting partners, just a bread and butter movement to the net point, goes like this: I chip a short ball to his backhand, he hits the approach down the line, I hit a pass to the center of the court, now the gloves are off, play the point out. Repeat 10 times, then switch to the other side. Even if you're not a player who likes spending a lot of time at the net, this drill is a good one because it will force you to (a) up-tempo your point play and movement (but you still have to stay smooth to make it work) (b) hit precisely under pressure...try it, you'll like it...
     
    #29
  30. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    Good stuff...

    ...I haven't played a whole lot of doubles lately, so I'd have to get my doubles chops back together, but let's think about it. For the record, Ian is a 3.5 trying to get to 4.0...but he's a whole lot better, IMHO, than those numbers. In another thread you might find interesting, which I'll point you in a minute, Ian and I met, he thought I had some good ideas, I have done some coaching (a 3.0-3.5 group and a 4.0-4.5 group in Longmont last year), so I've been hitting with him and giving him what help I can on his game...although IMHO he's well on his way without my help.

    Again, for the record, I'm 63, my strokes are probably 5.0 ish...but I don't play NTRP or age groups any more. I just play Men's Open events. I love the challenge and believe I'm gonna get there, but it's going to take some further heavy lifting. In the Boulder Open, I lost first round to a guy who just graduated from Denver East and is going on to play at a Div 1 school back east. Good match, he was just better in the two important departments that day, serve and return. I was fortunate enough to have as my coaches the men's coaches at CU Boulder before they cut the program; that's where a lot of my fundamentals and coaching methods come from.

    So, let's start with this: if you want to hit some balls some time, send me an email (my account says I can receive emails from other TW folks), and we'll hit some. I live in Berthoud, but travel all over to meet my hitting partners, so I'm more than happy to play at Gates or whatever works for you. I have a tournament starting in Fort Collins today and I'm going to be driving my 350Z on the track at High Plains all weekend, so next week is better...talk to you soon!

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=375284&highlight=skiracer55
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
    #30
  31. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    Hey Blade, skiracer outed me, LOL. Actually, I've never made a secret of my level. 3.5, guilty as charged. I'm playing 4.0 leagues and tourneys this season and doing OK but not great. Basically I have decent strokes and that allows me to rally with 4.5+ guys in practice, on the rare occasions that happens. What I don't have is a cohesive game; being able to understand the game from the sidelines is not the same as being able to apply that understanding to my own matches... not yet anyway.

    Now that full disclosure is over: if you still want to hit, great, email me through my account. And if not, no hurt feelings.

    This thread veered off track in unexpected directions; I'd like to loop back to the original topic and once again wish luck to all Colorado players in the US Open National Playoffs. To Vasilisa Bardina in particular: she has a realistic chance to make it, and what a story that would be!
     
    #31
  32. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    Yep, back on track...

    ...best of luck to all CO players...Ian, do you know where we can see results?
     
    #32
  33. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    #33
  34. Arafel

    Arafel Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,159
    The pace and anticipation are what amazed me. I mean, I am over 40, and I stopped playing for 15 years after college due to burnout, but I was never a top level junior, so take this for what is worth. I would play tournaments in New York and win a round or two before losing. What I remember about playing Vas though is that there was no time to set up. If I wasn't immediately ready to hit again after my follow through, I was screwed. Likewise, if I hit short, I was immediately on the defensive, or the point was over. There was a feeling that I had to hit every shot perfectly just to be able to get a rally going.

    Vasilisa beat me 6-1, 6-0. I got to deuce a few times besides the game I won. I distinctly remember cracking a hard flat first serve wide to her forehand (I am lefty) in the deuce court at deuce and it felt like before I had even finished my follow through the ball was at my feet. I sort of flashed to that first set tiebreaker between Roddick and Federer in the 2007 US Open, when Federer did something like that to Andy. I just shook my head and said aloud, "That's just not fair."

    Vas had a big support section watching, and they encouraged me a few times, saying she had been inside the top 50 in the world. When I made the not fair comment, they all laughed, but it was a good, sympathetic laughter, not mean.

    I can also tell you that Vasilisa is a really nice person on and off the court. We both work with Jeff Salzenstein as our coach, and I've run into her a few times either as I was leaving or arriving, and chatted for a couple of moments. I really hope she makes the main draw.
     
    #34
  35. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    Great story Arafel, thank you for sharing! And BTW, keeping it somewhat competitive against her: awesome!
     
    #35
  36. Black Knight

    Black Knight New User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    41
    If I only I was closer as well!! I would take you up on your offer of a hit Skiracer and Ian- san!
     
    #36
  37. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,034
    Huh...

    ...I thought you were in Colorado, for whatever reason...just another excuse for a road trip...
     
    #37
  38. Black Knight

    Black Knight New User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    41
    Never need an excuse for a roadtrip!! :) And are always welcome!
     
    #38
  39. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    Update: Bardina advanced to the second round of US Open National Qualifiers over Caroline Dailey (walkover; I don't know why Dailey didn't play). Bardina will be playing #2 seed Yasmin Schnack next. Intermountain men qualifiers winner Angelo Faustion lost to Tony Larson (who I believe frequents this board). I couldn't find info on the mixed qualifiers results.
     
    #39
  40. jhick

    jhick Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    549
    Location:
    MN
    FYI, the mixed qualifiers aren't until next weekend.
     
    #40
  41. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Tony Larson is TonLars. He hangs out in the "My Strokes (5.5) If Interested" thread on the Tips/Instruction board if anyone has a question for him.
     
    #41
  42. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    That's why there are no draws for mixed yet... thanks for the info!
     
    #42
  43. DEH

    DEH Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Arvada CO
    Does anyone know how Vasilisa did today. I can't find any scores.
     
    #43
  44. DEH

    DEH Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Arvada CO
    #44
  45. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    #45
  46. CANTGETENOUGHTENNIS!

    CANTGETENOUGHTENNIS! Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    somewhere over the rainbow way up high
    Boulder open? I live in the boulder area! That's awesome!
    Did you hear about the ucla player in the mens draw who stopped playing tennis the minute he graduated and is just now getting back into it?
     
    #46

Share This Page