WTA vs ATP

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TENNIS2, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    women cant compete with men, much less take a game or two. anyone who argues differently doesnt have a clue. sorry but thats the most polite way i can put it.

    i would bet on a top boys 18's player over any of the top women. its a different game. balls arent waist lvl and light. u wont understand the differences until u have hit with them. its like comparing a 90 mph capriati serve with a 90mph sampras kicker. to the ordinary fan they are both 90 mph.
     
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  2. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

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    And what is that supposed to prove? Smoking cigarette is just not advisable for his health, but doing that while playing tennis is just against the essence of the sport and showing disrepect for his competitor.
     
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  3. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Justine HH is my favorite female player, but she would be lucky to get a game off of Dent or Sanguinetti.

    When Sanguinetti was freshman at UCLA (about 15 years ago), he played the lowly #5 singles spot while Mark Knowles played the #1 spot, and Sanguinetti and I lived in the same dormitory. I venture to say Justine at the top of her form would be lucky to take a game or two off the Sanguinetti of 15 years ago. I don't know why the poster picked Dent and Sanguinetti. Both can play exquisite S&V game and would give the female players even more trouble than the baseliners would.

    It is not that women cannot beat men. I admit that there are many women who are stronger, faster and more skilled than I in many sports. I am a decent athlete, but I am not a top-100 athlete in the world, am I? There is still a huge gap between the best male tennis pros that the world has to offer and the best female pros. It has nothing to do with ego or sexism. It is just a fact. Even Serena Williams admitted that she would have a snowball's chance in hell against Agassi. Davenport admits that she cannot beat her husband, who is not even ranked.

    By the way, Justine claims that her husband can never beat her in a tennis match. Does anyone know whether he is or was at some point a tennis pro or at least a serious one?
     
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  4. rilokiley

    rilokiley Professional

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    TENNIS2, Are you trying to say that is why Venus and Serena lost?
     
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  5. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    He was a junior player, but not internationally ranked junior player, but stopped playing long time ago.
     
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  6. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    she pays the bills, he knows his role :)
     
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  7. jhhachamp

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    Ummm...where the heck did you come up with that crap and what relevance does it have. All smoking cigarretes means is that he was not trying very hard in the match.
     
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  8. DashaandSafin

    DashaandSafin Hall of Fame

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    All i can say Maria is that you are a fool. Lets just end this discussion once and for all. Ask to set up an exhibition match between...Paradorn and Henin or any WTA player of your pick. Would not even win one game. Gonozo? Forget it...he would tear her head off. We will all pitch in for this exhibition.
    The guys who lost to you...they must suck horribly unless your actually ranked in USTA or something. Ive beaten top USTA girl players and im barely ranked in the male division.
    Once again...a feminist...delusional.
    *sigh*
     
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  9. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

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    Hi Steve Dykstra, it's not crap at all. Say if someone is a better tennis player than you, when he plays you he does not put in any effort at all and treating you like a little kid, I think you would feel some disrespect. As for sport personalities advertising unhealthy behavior ON THE COURT (I don't care if they do that else where, especially in their own privacy), not good for kids who admire them.
     
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  10. rilokiley

    rilokiley Professional

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    And that is why Venus and Serena lost? Yes I'd feel some disrespect if someone FAR better than me smoked between games and treated me like a little kid, but I wouldn't use that as an excuse and say, "Ohh, I would have beaten him if he didn't smoke and played seriously."
     
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  11. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    D & S is correct. If you beat a male beginner in tennis, that's no big accomplishment. I'm undefeated in singles this year, but that's because the same 5 clowns I play can't beat me. Does that make me unbeatable? Only to those who are a little better to worse than the 5 stooges. Any halfway decent player can beat a male beginner.
     
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  12. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    Marialover:

    I agree with you. I am secure enough to say that some women can beat some men. I have had a lot of abuse from guys on this board, that's true and for all the reasons you stated and then some. You're right about Karlovic, by the way. Karlovic would be beaten routinely on the wta tour. It wouldn't even be a contest. He is one of the worst I have ever seen. He would never win a grand slam on the wta tour. I doubt he would make it to the finals.

    Like I have said in the past, at my club I have the hardest time returning one particular lady's serve, much more than any guy there! Sure, probably most men would beat most women but clearly some women are exceptional and can beat the guys. It would be great to see some of the atp players play the wta players over a period of a year. There would be some wta winners. No doubt on my part.
     
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  13. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

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    Say that to any WTA player and see what the response is.
     
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  14. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    My my....when one's argument fails miserably then one attacks the messenger? Straight or not? Please..how about smart or not because you'd have to be totally daft to agree with you.

    Biggest fact is this: if women could compete on equal footing with men in tennis, then there'd be one tour, not two. Back in the 70s during the height of the Womens' Lib movement, a girl gained entry to a mail event. John Newcombe beat her 2 and 1 and took it easy on here because "she was a girl".

    The #1 tennis player in the world, Billie Jean King, had a decent match with Bobby Riggs. She didn't blow him off the court, it was competitive. Now, take into account that Billie Jean was in her physical prime, and Bobby Riggs was 55. Billie Jean said her father was the same age. Also take into account the fact that Riggs had been promoting the match and that those close to him said he hadn't played tennis or touched a racket in a couple of months prior to the match. Riggs was in it for the money, King was in it for history, you do the math.

    If that's not enough for you, Riggs had previously dismantled the #1 woman in the world at the time, Margaret Court. Court was considered a power player of the time.

    Next item was Martina Navratilova's claim that she could beat the #100 man in the world if she got to pick the surface. Naturally everybody thought she'd pick grass, including Vitas Gerualitis. This is another of his famous retorts "I'd bet my house (then valued at $1,000,000) that she can't beat him, no matter who it is or where it is". Many female pros weighed in, including Chris Evert who opined "A good college player can beat the top women". As if we needed further proof, do you remember the outcome of this bet? That's right, you don't. Why? Because it never happened. Navratilova figured that 1 million dollars was more than she was willing to wager on something like this.

    The used to be a couple of pros here, a husband and wife team. Prior to coming here, they worked for NB for a spell. During that time, they met and worked with Monica Seles. When Seles played Wimbledon, she called them to work with her. They took vacation and went over to England for a couple of weeks. The husband, who I took from, was Seles' hitting partner. He was hitting spin serves to her and she asked him to stop. Why? Because the girls on tour don't hit with that much spin. Now, this guy is basically a solid 5.0 maybe 5.5 now. His college tennis was at Alabama, but he blew his knee out. Anyway, he's not even a satellie level now and he said he could have given her a run.

    There's nothing wrong with womens' tennis being womens tennis and mens' tennis being mens' tennis. Womens' tennis has made great strides in the last twenty years. Used to be the same two women competed for every title. Now there is an extended circle. Women's tennis also involves more strategy than mens'. All that said, please don't try and make a case for women beating men in tournaments. It just ain't gonna happen!
     
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  15. Kevin Patrick

    Kevin Patrick Hall of Fame

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    Todd Martin said Karlovic was the toughest serve he's ever faced. And he's played Ivanisevic, Roddick, Sampras, Krajieck.
    Yes, Ivo has a pretty poor game outside of the serve, but considering the entire ATP tour has a lot of trouble breaking him, why would any WTA player find it easier?
     
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  16. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

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    Why must a few always turn this into a sexism issue, when it's actually a common sense one?
     
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  17. Kevin Patrick

    Kevin Patrick Hall of Fame

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    and why do so many on this board equate professional tennis to the tennis played at their club? i've always found that rather odd.

    just cause you have trouble returning an amateur women's serve, has no bearing on comparing WTA & ATP players. is your ego that big that you think the tennis you play has anything in common with the pros?
     
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  18. Ravi

    Ravi Rookie

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    Exactly. It's sick-making to listen to a bunch of 4.0s or whatever think that the tennis played by the touring pros in any way resembles what they hack up on the court.
     
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  19. callitout

    callitout Professional

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    A good college player is a 6.0 player--the very best few are 6.5 (good satellite players). Chris Evert statement that a good male at that level can beat top ATP women makes perfect sense. I did watch Justine HH smoke the heck out of an 18 yo junior (Kryvonos or Koniecko I believe) practicing at USO. That wasnt a match, wasnt scored but clearly this kid wouldnt have schooled her. The kid is no 5.0 or even 5.5. thats at least a 6.0 player whos playing futures.

    Lots of people get carried away on both sides. True no WTA players gonna beat ATP guy inside top 100. On the other hand jack the head pro at your club who played D1 20 yrs ago and is still a 5.0 aint gonna beat Kim Clijsters either. A really really good junior might beat her or might not. Donald Young vs an inform JHH would be a good match.

    Someone mentioned Davenport having a chance against male pro...agree about her movement being an issue. Watched her practice and her (male) coach is clearly better off the ground than she is. He can control the point and pretty much play her the way a teaching pro can control play with an amateur. He moves waaay better than her (not saying a lot).
     
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  20. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    wow, women beating top 50 men? this thread is getting pretty absurd...the top women would not win 16s kalamazoo...would not win more than a round or two in 18s kalamazoo...would not get through qualifying at tournaments such as the Legg Mason...

    and people are bringing up how kournikova returned some mardy fish serves in world team tennis...world team tennis...

    people here need to familiarize themselves with the karsten braasch scores vs the williams sister as someone else mentioned...and i've personally seen a pro at my club dish out an 0,0 to a woman ranked in the 70s a couple years ago...not an ATP player, a guy who taught clinics and lessons all day and played some adult tournies...
     
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  21. Ravi

    Ravi Rookie

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    Yes, a good match to forever end these silly debates after Young wins 1 and love.
     
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  22. Rpp

    Rpp Rookie

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    Clijsters would be likely highest ranked woman on ATP. She would likely get some WC's and therefore be ranked around 500 in the world. If she would have to do it the hard way I think she might pick a few first round wins a year at ITF 10.000 tournaments and be ranked at 1000-1200.

    Seems people here are not going to local ITF tournaments too often. They can hit the ball there too.
     
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  23. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    MariaL:

    The insecure know it alls are really perturbed. I know it's like trying to beat algebra into a bird's brain but give them your two cents. I could use a laugh at their expense! It looks like you, Matthew, and myself are the only ones who have similar opinions on this board. You were right, the insults have started. They don't have very thick skin around here, do they? Say one thing in favor of the wta players and they freak out here. You would think that Billie Jean King's beating of Riggs would have taught them something but of course not. With their insecurity, they are making every excuse in the world why he lost that match- very Serena-like on their part. I would like to remind everyone that although Riggs was older and maybe not at his prime, King played a very safe and conservative match. It was far from her best tennis. She even admitted that watching the taped footage, she is disgusted at herself for not going for her shots more. She even stated that she normally played a lot better than she did in that match. So, a sub-par King won the match, everyone. We need more battles of the sexes. Oh why even bother, you would just find a million Serena type excuses for why the atp pros were losing some of the matches.
     
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  24. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    Dear tennissavy,

    If your don't have brain cramp, you should know there is a big difference between a male player in his 20s and in his 50s.
     
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  25. Ravi

    Ravi Rookie

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    This has nothing to do with insecurity and a lot more to do with truth-seeking. The truth is that the best 200 tennis players in the world are ranked 1-200 by the ATP.
     
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  26. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    Oh my! look at all the posts in favor of men over women. You people can't deal with the possibility. INSECURITY. I beat most guys I play and I am proud of my record but there are some women, at my level, who would beat the hell out of me on the tennis court. Some women can compete at any level. I have no doubt that the top 100 men would lose to some women too.
     
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  27. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    There are plenty of players, in their 50's, who would beat players in their 20's.
    Anyway, there is no sense in continuing a debate with you or others like you. I have been through this before. I had to throw my few cents in when I read Marialover and Matthew here. I want them to know that I realize the possibilities and that they are not wrong or alone in their opinions.
     
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  28. Kevin Patrick

    Kevin Patrick Hall of Fame

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    Does this carry over to the NFL, MLB, NBA, PGA, soccer, track & field as well? Just curious about your opinion about the differences between men & women in other pro sports.
    Could a women make the NBA?

    Also there are quite a few female posters on this board who disagree with you. This has nothing to do with insecurity.

    Once again the tennis being played at your club has no relevance in the world of pro tennis.
     
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  29. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

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    You aren't going to find a collection of posters more knowledgeable about tennis anywhere on the web. The fact that out of this horde of the die-hardest of die-hard tennis fans, players, and pros of various levels, there are only three of you who hold the opinion you hold -- this really ought to tell you something.

    They have clinical terms for those who believe that they are right, and it's the rest of society that is delusional. These terms aren't flattering.
     
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  30. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    We are not talking about general tennis players. We are talking about professional tennis players. Which male pro in his 50s can be ranked in top 500 today?

    Yeah, three of you, three m****s.
     
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  31. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    Yes, it does have a lot to do with insecurity. You are one of the most narrow-minded insecure guys with whom I have ever had interaction on this board. You have always gone out of your way to butt heads with me too, by the way. To try and dispute my opinion that some, not all, women could beat some men on the pro tours with you is absolutely pointless. You are one of the nastiest people on this messageboard because you frequently start fights with those of us who have strong but different opinions than you.
     
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  32. Rpp

    Rpp Rookie

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    During some Grand Slam's there are often chance to watch matches on two courts at the same time. When on other there is women's and on other men's match you can clearly see how big is the difference between the games. Women's tennis is a lot of fun to watch but then it is better if there isn't men's game around.
    Would be cool to see McEnroe vs V. or S. Williams.
     
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  33. rilokiley

    rilokiley Professional

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    What tennissavvy's records against some male players at her club have to do with WTA players' performance against ATP players I do not understand.
    You've succeeded in stating your opinion over and over but you haven't provided us any proof. Some posters here said they had seen satellite/teaching pros/top juniors beat top 100 women. What have you got to show us?
     
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  34. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    I agree that it would be cool to see John McEnroe vs. a Williams sister but I would have to support McEnroe because I can't stand the Williams sisters. If a Williams sister were to win the match, Kevin Patrick and many others on this board would still never change their opinions and would make hundreds of excuses why a woman beat a man. It's just too horrible for them to accept. I almost feel sorry for them. Almost.
     
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  35. rilokiley

    rilokiley Professional

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    I thought you were saying that the top 100 men would lose to some women.
     
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  36. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    They provide no proof. It's heresay. Heresay isn't permitted in a court of law and for a good reason, it has no validity.
    BTW, do not misspell my misspelled name.
     
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  37. rilokiley

    rilokiley Professional

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    :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
    MY MESSAGE ISN'T TOO SHORT, DAMMIT
     
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  38. Kevin Patrick

    Kevin Patrick Hall of Fame

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    Proof:
    Battle of the Sexes II
    1992
    Navratilova vs Connors
    Martina was top 5, Connors was barely top 50. She was 34, he was 40.
    Connors was given only one serve. Martina was allowed to use the doubles alley. Connors won in straight sets(& it was televised)
     
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  39. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    I found this article for some people who may not have read it.

    The Williams sisters challenged 203rd-ranked German Karsten Braasch during the Australian Open. First Serena, then Venus challenged Karsten and he beat them both. Serena fell 6-1, Venus 6-2. They played as intensely as they could, while Braasch performed with gentlemanly restraint. "It was extremely hard," said 16-year-old Serena. "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the WTA Tour, and he got to them easily." That didn't stop her from boasting that, "this time next year I'll beat him. I have to pump some weight. ... I have to work hard to be on the men's tour." Venus, 17, wasn't about to concede too much, either, especially since she broke Braasch once. "I can beat men in the 300s and up," she said. "He thought we couldn't get a point. He didn't think we could play. We showed him we could." Braasch smiled at their claims. "Against anyone in the top 500, no chance," he said. "Because I was playing like 600 today." Here is the longer version, a German article, and how Karsten remembers the match.
     
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  40. Kevin Patrick

    Kevin Patrick Hall of Fame

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    tennissavy, Sorry that you've deemeed me "nasty." Clearly you care way too much about this message board. And seem way too preoccupied with me.
    I don't think I've attacked you with insults, just stated my opinion. I've also asked appropriate questions that you ignore.

    I know you are a former figure skater. It's a sport about which I know nothing. But I assume there are some big physical differences between men & women in that sport. Am I correct that pro female figure skaters are incapable of doing much of what male figure skaters do? Men & Women in that sport only compete against their own gender, correct? Could women "beat" men in that sport?

    I don't think less of women's pro tennis players. They are great players, but they are playing a different sport.
     
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  41. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    Here is the longer article:



    Williams sisters discover men are better players.

    Venus and Serena Williams discovered they're no match for the men on the ATP tennis tour, at least not yet.

    In an impromptu 'Battle of the Sexes' at the Australian Open yesterday, first Serena, then Venus challenged No 203 Karsten Braasch to a set apiece, and he beat them both.

    Serena fell 6-1, Venus 6-2. They played as intensely as they could, while Braasch performed with gentlemanly restraint.

    "It was extremely hard," said the 16-year-old Serena. "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

    That didn't stop her from boasting that "this time next year I'll beat him. I have to pump some weight . . . I have to work hard to be on the men's tour."

    Venus, 17, wasn't about to concede too much either, especially since she broke Braasch's serve once.

    "I can beat men in the 300s and up," she said. "He thought we couldn't get a point. He didn't think we could play. We showed him we could."

    Asked if she might not want to take on players on the senior tour, or retired men as Billie-Jean King did against 1939 Wimbledon champion Bobby Riggs in their ballyhooed 'Battle of the Sexes' in 1973, Venus shook her beaded head.

    "I'm going for the young guns," she said.

    Braasch smiled at their claims.

    "Against anyone in the top 500, no chance," Braasch said, "because I was playing like 600 today."

    The sister act played Braasch on Court 12 in the boondocks of the Australian Open complex. A few hundred fans and players who wandered by witnessed the event along with a crowd of media. No umpire, no linesmen, no ball boys, no scoreboard. And no prize money or bets. Only pride was at stake.

    It all started a few days ago when the Williams sisters wandered into the ATP tour office at the Australian Open and boldly claimed they could beat any of the men ranked 200 or above. The bespectacled Braasch, a German who has sunk in the rankings after reaching 38 in 1994, happened to be in the office and took up the challenge.

    Venus was still in the tournament at the time so a match was set between Serena and Braasch for Sunday. Rain postponed that until yesterday and with the sun shining Serena and Braasch showed up ready to defend the honour of their sexes.

    At least that's how Serena saw it. For Braasch, it was a joke. He never even considered the possibility he might be ridiculed by the other men players if he lost.

    "Everyone knew that there's no chance for them," he said. "They were talking to me, that I should go out and beat them by as much as possible. They said make it 24 points and go off the court."

    He played, he said, for fun, "because tennis doesn't have to be serious, especially when you're out of the tournament." Braasch lost last week in the singles and doubles.

    When Riggs lost to King at the Houston Astrodome, there was a crowd of more than 30 000 -- the biggest in tennis history. That nationally televised exhibition, four months after Riggs' 'Mother's Day Massacre' of Margaret Court, did more to establish women's tennis than any other match or tournament.

    The Williams sisters, in their way, are bringing new life to the women's tour, even if they couldn't beat Braasch. Venus reached the final of the US Open and the quarters here. Serena has beaten three top 10 players since turning pro a few months ago. Each has the personality and flash to make the sport more popular than ever.

    Braasch, a left-handed junk ball expert with a convoluted service motion, won the first five games against Serena. He ran her dizzy all over the court, showing her a befuddling assortment of spins.

    He could have hit harder if he wanted, taken her out of points sooner, but as her unofficial coach, Nick Bollettieri, noted at *********, "He's being kind to her."

    Venus, who had just changed into jeans after losing in the women's quarter-finals to Lindsay Davenport, showed up at Court 12 late and saw her sister getting trounced.

    "I'd definitely take this guy on," she said. When Braasch held at love to 5-0, Venus' competitiveness got the better of her.

    "Maybe I should go get dressed," she said to Bollettieri. "What do you think, Nick?"

    "Go for it," he answered.

    Venus raced across Melbourne Park, her multi-coloured beads flying among the surprised fans. She changed quickly and raced right back, arriving out of breath just as Serena won her only game when Braasch netted a backhand after a couple of deuces.

    The small crowd roared for Serena, but Braasch closed out the set with an ace a few moments later.

    As Serena and Braasch shook hands, Venus entered the court and issued her own challenge to Braasch.

    Venus had as little success as Serena when the match got under way. She lost her first service game at love, managed only one point on Braasch's serve and dropped her next serve.

    But after going down 4-0, Venus held serve at love as Braasch hit several errors.

    Perhaps boredom was setting in because Braasch then lost his own serve to 4-2 when Venus cracked a sizzling forehand past him on her second break point.

    Braasch wasn't about to let the set get away. He stepped up his pace a bit, overpowered Venus on her serve and closed out the match with an ace.

    "I took at least 50 per cent off my serve," Braasch said.

    "I came out with a few hard ones, but not too much because then it's not fun anymore and it was supposed to be fun."
     
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  42. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Hey tennissavy, i challenge u to a match, i hope u like bagels :mrgreen:
     
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  43. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    i wonder where maria went
     
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  44. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    btw, tennissavvy, incase you didnt notice this isnt a court case, its safe to assume that people didnt lie when they said they saw women being beaten by men, and no, they didnt make it up because its been posted before this thread started. but anyway, if you wanna treat this as a court case....

    your proof:
    were all insecure
    you sometimes beat men at your club
    old people sometimes beat young people at your club

    our proof:
    the williams' sister's match
    the opinion of every wta player (probably excluding the williams)
    the fact that women consitently lose to top ranking juniors and seniors.
     
    #94
  45. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

    Joined:
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    174
    Come on guys. Men are men and women are women. There are obvious differences between men and women physically. Don't let our strong opinions sway us away from the facts. When I started this thread I just simply noticed that while some of the women players got tremendous skills, sometimes they don't have enough strengh to optimize their talents especially in today game when more and more power is required. And vice versa, some men players rely too much on power and don't spend more time to optimize their skills (Roddick's backhand, for example). So on a technical/ skill level, I think the women are good enough to compete witht the men.
     
    #95
  46. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    This pretty much sums up the case. Not a difficult decision for the jury.
     
    #96
  47. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
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    12,545
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    You'd be hardpressed to find a women's professional basketball player who can dunk.

    You'd be even harder pressed to find a men's professional basketball player who can't dunk.
     
    #97
  48. callitout

    callitout Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
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    1,303
    Yes I fully agree that your speculation in response to my speculation is speculative. Not sure where the certainty about this comes for.

    As for the WTA top players not beating Kalamzoo 16 yo boys thats just hogwash. Ive seen the a former female pro beat 5.5 players handily, could she beat any 7.0--no. But all people are talking about is where to draw the line. Very few people maintain that players who regularly win ATP matches would lose to any WTA players. But how does that imply that Joe blow the 6.0 can beat JHH. Sure #200 beat the Williams sisters, so what does that imply about how #5000 plays against an inform JHH. Nothing.
     
    #98
  49. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
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    How many times that subject will have to come back?

    I would just like that Matthew, Tennissavy, and some other, finally clearly realize that even the best WTA players stand absloutely no chance at all against any world class ATP player <the ATP players who are good enough to live from their prize money>.

    To understand the difference in level that can exist in favor to some male players compared to the top WTA players, please read the copy below of a post that I already created a few monthes ago, where I related my own experience with an elite WTA player, who was ranked in the top 10 at her best, at that time my French ranking was -15 (which is equal to a NTRP 6.5, from what I've been told), which is a very good level, but very far from any ATP top 100 player. Against that WTA player, I always used to win with scores between 6/0 and 6/2


    Here is the copy of my old post :
    "Well, the fact is that I'm a male player who have never been good enough to try a run on the ATP with a reasonable hope to make money, but I've been good enough for Julie Halard-Decugis (former WTA top 10) and her husband/coach to ask my services as a training partner for the few weeks that she spent in my area when I was living in New Caledonia, at that time the girl was ranked in the WTA top 15.

    What I can say is that during groundstrokes drills, she usually showed more accuracy and constancy than me and by a good margin, but in match situtations, she could only seldomly win a few games by match against me, she simply couldn't handle the constant agression that I putted on her, I'm an allcourt player with good volleying skill and a good serve, when I hitted the ball just right at her, no way that I could force an error with only power, but when I forced her to hit on the run, or wrong footed her, or forced her to change the direction of her course by playing in all areas of the court (short, long, right left) with a good variety of ball effects, it wasn't so hard to force a weak shot from her that could settle me in good position to hit a pretty easy put away winner, or to charge the net to finish the point. When I was in difficulty, a good trick was to force her to come to the net and then moonballing her (as high and long as possible), her smash was pretty weak and she could win the point with only when she was in perfect position, and it looks like it is the same with 95% of the WTA players concernig the smash, when the point was under my control she was almost never able to return the situation, because her shots on the run where not effective enough to give me troubles, and the few times that she had the opportunity to attack me she had troubles to finish the point, because of my male athleticism/speed and her lack of net game which usually helped me to come back in the point, as long as I could reach the ball she was in danger, so when she was in position to attack she had to hit a perfect groundstroke to make an outright winner, and she didn't made it very often, of course I had a tendancy to make some UE errors by trying to play agressively and gave her many free points, but at the end of most games, I was usually the one who won 2 more points than her.

    After a few days of drill, they asked me to play some matches againts her, and to give my best, but before the end of her 2 weeks training, they asked me to tune down my level during the matches, because the difference was so big in my favor and my style was so different than what she encountered on the WTA circuit, that they found that she couldn't work on her game correctly against me when I played my best.

    So imagine how big the difference can be between WTA players and ATP players."


    I hope that closes the debate on this message board.
     
    #99
  50. littlelleyton

    littlelleyton Semi-Pro

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    what seems to be the problem with this thread and peoples opinions is that generally they are thinking about specific match ups. for example Fed V Venus. i think we are all aware that in that particular match up, along with pretty much Fed V any other human, animal or alien there would be only one winner.
    what peopl eon this board choose, yes i mean choose, to ignore is that if you are to consider a top WTA player, and i mean top5, and match her up against every ATP tour player, top 200, then maybe she would be beat but is there a chance that some one like Kim could cause an upset? there is and until provide on the court infront of the world, otherwise always that chance. The guy may have a bad day, Kim may raise her game whatever the reasons no one knows for sure.
    as common sense tells anyone that has an intelligent mind, yes generally men are stronger, faster and more powerful than women and if tennis purely relied on these factors as with any sport where they do, then yes the man would for sure be certain to win. however tennis is a game that not only has these factors but also, consistancy, shot selection, will to win/succed, etc.

    the arguement along with most others on this or any board are purely based on what people think. if people are prepared to try to argue that 5.5 rated players would beat WTA pros then can i ask what they would do to the majority of the board here??????? i think and have said this before that people choose to underestimate and put down female players at the top level to make themselves feel better about the players they are themselves.

    the most important thing is that at the moment both th WTA and ATP seems to going through a purple patch with excellent young stars coming through and getting kids interested in the game, so why put down one side to make the other seem like its bigger and better. no one is in competition, no one cares. like life they co-exsist and are happy to do so without feeling they have to compete or challenge one another. i dont know about you or anyone else but i love watching Maria, Kim and all the others play as much as i love Lleyton, Fed and Rod. there is different things in both tours that make the game enjoyable if you love and appreciate the game
     

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