WTA vs ATP

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TENNIS2, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    One more proof that no WTA player can beat an ATP player?

    Mary Pierce who trains since ever with her brother, publicly admitted, that shealways failed to beat him when they played matches one against the other <and we can assume that in so many years, they played a lot of matches one against the other during practice cessions>.

    Mary pierce is obivously an elite WTA player, multi-slam winner, who maintained during her career a top 5 level for a pretty long period, and whose groundstrokes are in term of power probably in the top 3 or 5 of ever in the WTA, but her brother have never been ranked in the top 1000 ATP. It says it all...
     
  2. callitout

    callitout Professional

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    That is an interesting story and if your a 6.5 youre a great player. That'd be the level of say an excellent D1 player like a top 30 guy. So you have every shot the ATP pro has just not enough weapons to win prize money usually. BTW Safin says when a top pro practices with an up and coming junior usually the junior wins, "but a match is a whole different thing". The point is once your at that elite a level concentration, focus, handling pressure, and exploiting weaknesses really matters. Very interesting story...and what I think it says is that truly elite male players which you are or were can beat women pros. Back to..what that says about joe blow 5.5 or 6.0 not sure.
     
  3. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

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    Can someone answer me this specific question which I have been hinted at in my previous posts: if Lindsey Davenport/ or Kim Clijster has the same strength (which translate to speed, power) as Roddick, could they beat him? To me, they have a more TECHNICAL game, more precision on their shots then Roddick. I know some has mentioned this comparison is ridiculous, but is it really?
     
  4. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    No it is not "maybe" that she would be beat against a top 200, it SURE. And even if the guy has a very bad bad day, Clijsters would stand abslolutely no chance at all against a top 200, the difference in level is simply to big. An upset win is only possible when the difference in level between the best player and the less good player is small enough to make it possible, and it is not the case between any N°1 WTA and any top 200 ATP player.


    I gave you arguements not based on what I think, but based on what I experienced myself in real life, and I also related what Mary Pierce never had a problem to publicly admit, showing the difference in level between elite WTA players and ATP players <by the way, Pierce's brother is not even an ATP player...>

    I don't know what a 5.5 player can do against a WTA players, but anyway I doubt that the majority of the posters of this board are rated 5.5 or better, so the answer to your question is obvious : 5.5 rated players are supposed to beat the vast majority of the users of this message bord who are rated below. Where is the problem?
     
  5. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    If Lindsay or Kim clijsters had the same strength as Roddick, the only thing that is sure, is that Kim and Clijsters wouldn't hit their strokes the same way that they do currently, more strength would give them the opportunity to use very different stroke mechanics than what they do currently.
     
  6. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    It is slighlty exagerated, but it is true that it can happen regularly, it is simply because the Juniors usually give all what they have to make a good impression, while the Pro just practice without trying too hard. What Safin said was just his usual way to exagerate things


    Pretty good description of my level, during my best years.
     
  7. timmyboy

    timmyboy Professional

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    i laugh at people who say dent would lose. he always pulls hewitt into 3/5th sets and hewitt specializes in eating snv for lunch. and kim clijsters said that hewitt was waay better than her. and braasch beat williamses at 1s n 2s. look. isn't that kinda saying something?

    not being sexist, but i don't see anyone on wta stoppiing anyone with a name. gambill mehbe, but that's cuz i hate the guy.
     
  8. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

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    Yes, but let me restate my question with 2 assumptions: 1) Lindsey/ Kim have the same strength as Roddick, 2) Lindsey/ Kim maintain the same stroke mechanics. With their more technical games, they can defeat Roddick or any other atp players with a less technical game than theirs. The point all along, which many guys here have dismissed unjustifiably, is that some of the top women have a more technical game than the men, the reason they can't compete against the men or their matches are sometimes not as exciting to watch is simply due to the difference in strength.
     
  9. Grinder

    Grinder Semi-Pro

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    Karlovic being routinely beat on the WTA tour ? hahaha. Blake getting beat by a WTA player? hahahaha.
     
  10. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

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    Would it be fun just for entertainment value at an exhibition game/ charity event to have Federer play against some of the wta players. He pretends to have his worst day, being broken repeatedly by the women, gets mad, starts cursing, smashes all of his racquets, and ends up losing the match. Then at the post-game interview, he would say in his usual cool attitude, "I have been secretly reading about the wta vs atp discussion on TW message board. I wanted to come out here today to prove them wrong. But to my chagrin, the women are too good for me today. I think we should combine the wta and atp and have a fun fest."
     
  11. timmyboy

    timmyboy Professional

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    no, but more of an exhibition, like they do in soccer. just have a couple guys get together and get them to have fun, pulling off shots that'll never work in real life (like pulling a hand of god) or bicycle kicks from waay outta the crease. just for entertainment.
     
  12. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    Untrue. You can say "some of the top women have a more technical game than some men", but you can't say "some of the top women have a more technical game than the men". Do you see the subtle difference?

    Just take a serious look at the "technical games" of the current top WTA players :

    Clijsters and Davenport = Clean groundstrokes, but not much versatilty <below average slice backhands, not much variation in spins compared to men>, weak volleys, among the ATP top players I'd compare them to Agassi.

    Sharapova = All her strokes are "strange", very weak volleys, I'd compare her to nobody on the ATP tour, absolutely no ATP player would deserve that insult.

    Williams sister = ugly groundstrokes, with obvious flaws in their mechanics, particularly Venus' forehand, weak volleys. I'd compare them to Roddick, funky but powerfull groundstokes, bigger serve than average, weak volleys.

    Justine Henin = She is the closest version to a men allcourter <let's say Federer>, her volleys are way better than most other women, but it is still less natural for her than for men players like Federer, Becker, Sampras, or even Stepanek to take a not so great male player.

    Mauresmo = Almost like Henin, but technically her forehand has some defaults that Henin doesn't have, Amelie constantly struggles to to flaten her Fh to hit a clean winner when the court is opened.

    When you take a serious look at the game of the top WTA player, you will see that their games aren't so technical, and most of them have major technical defects, except for Henin, they usually lack versatility, and are unable to volley correctly. Except henin, none of the WTA players are technically complete. If you compare WTA top players to ATP top players, guys like Federer, Safin, Hewitt, Gasquet, Grosjean, Philippoussis, Clement, Escude, Stepanek, Coria, Ancic, Ljubicic, Rochus, Llodra, T. Johansson <and many others that I don't need to name> can show a more complete and purer technical arsenal.
     
  13. DashaandSafin

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    Ahh spinbalz i didnt know you were "almost" a pro. Props to you.
    Anyway, some of the women on this board are delusional. No way in heaven or hell can a top 10 WTA woman beat a 200 ranked man. Im not a chauvenist, im not macho, its just plain facts. Women's bodies are built wayy different from mens, unless your maresumo, who doesnt count.
     
  14. rilokiley

    rilokiley Professional

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    spinbalz where were you the whole time, buddy? you should have shown up earlier. haha
    anyways, my neighbor used to be ranked around 1000 but he quit at the age of like 27 because of shoulder/back problems he had kept having. and when i got to know him he was about 33 and he hadn't even touched a racket ever since he quit. but let me tell you, people like that just don't forget how to hit--his serve was there, his volly was there...everything was in place. it was just awesome experience to hit with him. :)
     
  15. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

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    From Spinbalz: "...Untrue. You can say "some of the top women have a more technical game than some men", but you can't say "some of the top women have a more technical game than the men". Do you see the subtle difference?..."


    I appreciate the subtle difference, I agree, and that's what I mean.
     
  16. uNIVERSE mAN

    uNIVERSE mAN Rookie

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    The ATP does not ban females from competing, if they want to try they're more than welcome, it's strange that not one of them ever has.
     
  17. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    I can't take seriously anything that spinbalz writes. He doesn't even know the basics of his alleged native language and when I submitted proof of his errors, he still refused to acknowledge that he was wrong. Therefore, anything he writes I automatically reject. I can't even respect someone who will not admit he is wrong, even when confronted with proof.

    Anyway, the depth of the women's game will keep me enthralled for years to come. I can't wait for the Advanta Championships. No weak sanguinetti or disabled Dent...
     
  18. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

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    I did not know this, interesting. Unlike golf, where the women want to challenge the men. BTW, did you guys hear Michelle Wie just went pro and she will be the third most well paid female athlete in the world at such a young age! (after Sharapova and Serena).
     
  19. tykrum

    tykrum Rookie

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    I think it would be fun to have someone like Federer play left-handed against the women. Now that would be interesting.
     
  20. jhhachamp

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    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. It seems here he has presented proof that you are wrong and you refuse to admit it, claiming that something in the past makes the proof unworthy. I'm not sure what his native language has to do with anything here.
     
  21. jhhachamp

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    I seriously doubt Federer could play anywhere near a 4.0 level left handed, let alone compete with the top women. I can barely hit the ball over the net with my left hand.
     
  22. hopeless

    hopeless New User

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    I admit that some women can beat me. But the fact is that in comparing the number of men to women who would beat me, the men outnumber the women immeasurably. In any match or sport between equally ranked male and female players, the male players would win easily.

    In fact your sheer insistence that women can beat man probably indicates insecurity on YOUR own part. Not being able to accept the fact that men are simply better than women in all sports
     
  23. hopeless

    hopeless New User

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    Davenport and Clijsters would lose. There is more to a man's advantage than just strength. The aggression, speed, stamina, and skill of Roddick would probably still be far superior.

    In fact i would even go as far as to speculate that if they had equal physical attributes as Roddick, he would still probably win, though it'll probably be very close. Men generally have better ball sense, technique, and mental focus (and other intangible advantages) compared to women.
     
  24. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    Actually on this board very few are the readers who take really seriously what you say.

    And anyway you didn't provide any proof of a French language error from my part <I perfectly rememberthe thread you are talking about>, and anyway the question is not if I can speak perfectly my native language, and the way someone speaks a language has nothing to do with his tennis skills/experiences.

    And since you claim that you speak French fluently, you will probably understand the few French words discribing girls like you : connasse, pétasse, pisseuse...
     
  25. spinbalz

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    Don't worry, they are not 3 to think like that, they are only 2, because actually Tennissavy and Marialover are two different screen names for only 1 person, each time that person encounter a strong opposition on this forum, he/she uses his/her 2nd screen name to posts things that goes in the direction he/she wants, to give more weight and credibility to his/her claims.


    Only 2... Only 2!
     
  26. littlelleyton

    littlelleyton Semi-Pro

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    sorry spinbalz i bow down to your god like wisodm and knowledge of all things tennis related. i can sleep tonight knowing that since you have told me that WTA player is SURE to get beat from everyone and anyone rated in the TOP 200 of the ATP, that is clearly true and been proven by you so i lay down any further conversation on the matter. whats the point of discussing on this board why dont you just write what you think and then we will have the answer to every debate out there.....you are truely one closed minded person.
     
  27. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    Exactly, Littlelleyton. Thankyou. It is a little off topic but I did present proof to spinbalz that he made a huge but basic error in french. I pasted the grammar point from a reputable internet sight, equivalent of webster's english dictionary, and he still won't admit he made an error. Of course now he is name calling, in french, vulgar low-class terms that anyone with an education or decency would not write for the public to see. He is the one who always writes in a condescending manner too as if, as you point out, his mere statements are fact and others' opinions are wrong, etc. I was the one who pointed out to him, during the grammar incident, that it seemed he was using a couple of different screen names to try and substantiate his views, etc. The ridiculous thing is that they all were insisting that the grammar mistake was correct! He couldn't have been more obvious and I called him on it!

    Back to this thread, I think that some of the wta players could take out some of the atp players. I don't think that the wta would win very very often but they would win, at times. They are great players and we have all seen them, at times, play better than the atp players, at times.
     
  28. tykrum

    tykrum Rookie

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    Really? Well at times I play left handed against some of my friends that don't play, and I'd say I'm still a 3.0. Meaning I still destroy all my friends. And the thing is that I am not naturally the most coordinated person. I bet Federer would definitely be around a 5.0 - 5.5 left handed. Someone like Nadal that is good with either hand I bet would be a solid 5.5.
     
  29. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    I see that being right, or actually knowing something, is what you call being a closed minded person...
     
  30. random1

    random1 Rookie

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    I have never seen a WTA player play better than and ATP player, perhaps you could provide an example?
    Why is it that even WTA players don't think they can beat ATP players, and yet you think they can? And even one example of a competitive match between any ranked ATP player and any WTA player would be reasonable proof, but it has never happened.

    And finally, regarding Kalamazoo - I assume he meant the top 16 players could beat the WTA women, and that also is true, the top 16 year old male is typically already good enough to play low-level ATP, but probably only the top couple of them. The top 16 year-old in the US is a lad named Donald Young...
     
  31. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    1/ What you call a proof can't be considered as a proof, because you didn't provide the link, so it is easy to make a false proof by writing anything you want and then by claiming that it comes from any internet source without providing the link, so nobody can verify...

    2/ You are the first who insulted me with what you call "vulgar low-class terms that anyone with an education or decency would not write for the public to see" when in a past thread you called me " petit con", so I'm rightfull to use the words I used to qualify you, your memory is very short.
     
  32. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    No, it is only you who have ever seen that, in your special world where the reality is always distorded...
     
  33. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    What you say must be true, because it comes from an expert in condescension, do I have to remind the posters how you talked about your backhand in a previous thread <to hear you, even Mr Safin could take 2HBH lessons from you>, what you think about your level in French, and how in this thread you talked about your "performances" in your club against male players...


    "they all"??? Why do you use "they", since only one person took my side about the grammar subject? I know why you use "they", it is because as usual, you distord the truth, and you try to insinuate that several screen names posted to back up my points, but the truth is that only one poster did it, and he did it simply because what I said was right...

    But the fact is that you and Marialover, always constantly post the same opinions in every thread you enter, and where peoples disagree with you, you won't make anyone believe that it is just a hazard... It proves that Marialover and Tennissavy are actually only one person using 2 different screen names. You are sick.

    This post is definitively the last one where I waste my time with you, in the future you can write whatever you want, I'll just ignore it. Espèce de boudin.
     
  34. littlelleyton

    littlelleyton Semi-Pro

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    im sorry but you claim that every single WTA pro is sure to be beaten by any ATp top 200 pro. this has never and will never be proved and whilest you MAY be right you cannot claim this as any thing other than your opinion. you may be right but there is nothing, absolutely nothing you or anyone else can say that is difinative on the subject with regards to actual results or match ups unless they happen. you contradict yourself by saying your right and not closed minded.....until one or any of the WTA players play every single Top 200 ATP pro and get beat how can you possibly say you are right????? thought so, you cant you can only speculate....
    s-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-e!!!!!!!!!
     
  35. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

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    It's an imperfect world. Nothing can be proven. That doesn't mean that people arguing for the absurd should be taken seriously or have their opinions recognized as valid.
     
  36. spinbalz

    spinbalz Hall of Fame

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    Very well said.
     
  37. random1

    random1 Rookie

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    Is it an excuse to point out that Riggs also covered the doubles court and was only allowed one serve?
    Thought so...
     
  38. rilokiley

    rilokiley Professional

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    I don't know about yall but I got the impression that tennissavy was a woman (saying she was proud of the fact that she occasionally beats men at her club) but he/she/it said he/she/it was, in fact, a man!
     
  39. hopeless

    hopeless New User

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    He could be a man with gender issues? haha
     
  40. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    ive never heard of a male feminist before....
     
  41. Grigollif1

    Grigollif1 Semi-Pro

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    Rickson

    Rickson you can find out people's name by their IP. That's an interesting thought, I would be very curious for you to find out mine, or anybody in my house lol?
     
  42. random1

    random1 Rookie

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    Really? There's plenty.
    In any case, believing a top female player can beat a ranked male has nothing to do with feminism.
     
  43. hopeless

    hopeless New User

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    How about being proud of beating men at tennis
     
  44. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    no, not that part, i would have no problem with him just saying that, but the 95% of tennissavvy's post that is just there to argue is.
     
  45. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    How bad are your friends if a 3.0 could destroy them? And that is pretty impressive if you really are that good left-handed. However, I cant see anyone reaching a 5.0 level or 5.5 level with their bad hand without at least practicing a decent amount with that hand.
     
  46. littlelleyton

    littlelleyton Semi-Pro

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    what do you not understand? mary pierce's brother can beat her...so???? who knows why he has choosen do to what he his with his life, again not you. for all we know he could have had the chance to be a pro but wanted to chose something else with his life........
    also yet another flaw with your arguement is that by your reconning since gasquet beat federer this year does that mean that everyone that beat gasquet is sure to beat federer?????

    you do not have PROOF, you have an OPINION. i agree that you may be correct but the simple fact is this...until a single WTA player or more play every Top 200 ranked male we cannot say that for sure they would lose. maybe you dont understand what im trying to say here so i will choose to use another example which nearly everyone that has more than 3 brain cells should be able to understand.

    to you believe in God or Aliens? whether you say yes or no you cannot prove or disprove their exsistance. therefore you can have any opinion you want but you must remain open to the possiblity that they are there either there or not there. until there is hard evidence infront of you everything is just opinion.

    this is probably all over your head and you will still not get the cold truth that your argument has not been proved
     
  47. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    Why are you bringing up another thread to try and defend your position here?
     
  48. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    EXACTLY!!!
     
  49. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    That's the wonderful thing about an opinion; it cannot be wrong or right, valid or invalid. Don't you have an education?
     
  50. ShooterMcMarco

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    this reminds me of a joke on conan's show with jmac where he said, "conan o'brien will take up tennis and become the first mixed singles champion." i guess that would be a "male feminist" haha
     

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