WTF for the top 2 - Group of Death or Group of Cake?

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by batz, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    There are couple of extremes on offer if you're Sexi or Noel:

    Group of Death:

    Murray
    Berdych
    Delpo

    2 slam champions and a slam finalist


    Group of Cake:

    Ferrer
    Tsonga
    Tipsy/Reeshard

    1 slam finalist.
     
    #1
  2. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes. Especially for Roger, That second group would be great. Really hope this happens with Nole in the top group:twisted:
     
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  3. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Man, I've thought exactly the same yesterday
     
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  4. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    To be honest whoever out of Fed or Nole gets Murray in the group is the harder group. But given Fed's abilities indoors, you can't help but imagine that Murray would be a greater hindrance for Nole than for Fedra.
     
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  5. underground

    underground Legend

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    You can't get Berdych and Delpo in the same group because they are seeded No 5 and 6.

    For Federer this would be the ideal group:

    1. Himself
    4. Ferrer
    6. Delpo
    8. Anyone but Tsonga

    Then Djokovic would have Murray (toss up), Berdych (cakewalk), Tsonga (depends on his form).

    In this case both have relatively good groups but Murray's in Djokovic's group.
     
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  6. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Federer / Ferrer / Delpo / Almagro
    Novak / Murray / Berdych / Tsonga
     
    #6
  7. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    You're right - epic fail by me - I forgot to bump Delpo and Berdych up one.
     
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  8. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    Group of Death for Federer:

    Murray
    Berdych
    Tsonga
     
    #8
  9. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    On that court of O2? Lawl.
     
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  10. underground

    underground Legend

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    Federer gets the Group of Cake. :)

    Group A:

    Djokovic
    Murray
    Berdych
    Tsonga

    Group B:

    Federer
    Ferrer
    Delpo
    Tipsarevic
     
    #10
  11. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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  12. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    Hmm, Federer's lucky that the O2 is Church of England :D
     
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  13. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Thank god we are spared from another Djurray final! Praise the lord!
     
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  14. W.P. Mayhew

    W.P. Mayhew Semi-Pro

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    I think that's still possible. Federer and Tsonga were in the same group last year too, IIRC.
     
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  15. Hawkeye7

    Hawkeye7 Professional

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    Everyone should aim for being #2 instead of #1 these days... lol
     
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  16. Hawkeye7

    Hawkeye7 Professional

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    It's actually more likely this way because they can't meet in the semis, no matter what happens.
     
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  17. CDNguy87

    CDNguy87 Hall of Fame

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    So it seems one group is pretty predictable with Fed and Delpo taking the 2 SF spots. Ferrer will be pretty burned out from going deep in Valencia and Paris these past 2 weeks and Tipsy is a filler for this event.

    The other group is much more up in the air. Based on the earlier HC season, Nole and Murray would obviously be the 2 favourites. However, based on their performances from last year's WTF (where Berdych and Tsonga made the semis while Djoker and Murray didn't), it's the complete opposite. Really depends how healthy and motivated Djoker and Murray are at this event...last year, Murray pulled out after 1 match due to injury and Djoker never really seemed to give full effort.
     
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  18. CDNguy87

    CDNguy87 Hall of Fame

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    This is correct. The semis are cross-overs, with the 1st place player from Group A playing the 2nd place from Group B and vice-versa. So in other words, if Murray and Nole are the Top 2 in their group, they'd play in 2 different Semis and would obviously meet in the final if they both won.
     
    #18
  19. Terenigma

    Terenigma Legend

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    I fancy murray and djokovic to both beat tsonga and against each other it could go either way, however, i think berdych will be the dark horse of group A and could cause an upset.

    Group B on paper looks easy but with the possible exception of ferrer (who may be tired going in to the WTF fom paris) noone in that group is exsactly playing well enough to be a certain semi-finalist.
     
    #19
  20. Ico

    Ico Hall of Fame

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    Tsonga knocked out Nadal last year so I'm not completely counting him out. Odds certainly aren't in his favor though...
     
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  21. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    The question is who will be most hungry to win this. I would guess Murray, Del Potro, and Ferrer will be the most hungry to try and win it. Del Potro though has already overplayed, he looked exhausted in his Paris defeat, and Ferrer having the ability to win in a field like this, even if he is coming off the high of a title in Paris, is dubious at best.
    Federer wont be super motivated like the last 2 years I predict, but will be moreso than Djokovic who seems to always shut down once he has something he wants, in the case of the last two years the year end #1 ranking, secured. So Murray or Federer is probably the most likely winner.
     
    #21
  22. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    We have to be realistic. Federer cannot take anything for granted anymore. On paper it looks good, yet..
     
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  23. CDNguy87

    CDNguy87 Hall of Fame

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    A healthy Fed beating Tipsy and a tired Ferrer on indoor HCs I think is still pretty close to a lock. But against DelPo or the other 4 there's a lot of uncertainty.
     
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  24. Hawkeye7

    Hawkeye7 Professional

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    I think he will definitely make the semis, but starting there things aren't looking too bright.
     
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  25. underground

    underground Legend

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    He's playing an injured Tipsy first and then a tired Ferrer.
     
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  26. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Del Potro has defeated Federer (and just by a hair) one time in eight matches at an ATP 500 event and that means there should be a lot of uncertainty when Federer plays Del Potro? I don't think so. Federer has owned Del Potro and unless Federer's twin ******** shows up, Fed has the advantage in that match-up.
     
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  27. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Their chances of winning the WTF are slim to nil.
     
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  28. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    If you had actually read my whole post you would see I went on to acknowledge that. I pointed out who I thought would be most hungry to win it, but then said I very much doubted Ferrer or Del Potro winning the WTF despite their hunger to do so.
     
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  29. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Group of Cake is good for Federer....but eventually he will gunned by the winners of Group of Death.

    Sucks that Murray and Djokovic can fac each other in the SF.Really hurts Fed chances here.

    Best Scenario

    Federer-Murray
    Djokovic- Del Potro

    Hope that Delpo has a good day in the SF....and Federer will take Murray out in a close one.
     
    #29
  30. CDNguy87

    CDNguy87 Hall of Fame

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    That one time also happened to be only two weeks ago at an indoor HC event. Since Fed won Wimbledon and broke the #1 ranking record, his level of play and general motivation have experienced a sharp decline compared to earlier in the season. Recent results and form are far more important than overall records and ranking.

    Notwithstanding that, even before Basel, Fed's 2 previous wins over DelPo were too close for comfort. DelPo won the first 2 sets against him at RG before collapsing, but notice how WTF is only best of 3? Then of course they had their epic Olympic match, which was as narrow a victory for Federer as possible, despite the fact it was on Federer's best surface and Del Potro's worst. So Federer has not "owned" Del Potro in their last 3 matches and based on these results, I would say there is a lot of uncertainty in their match-up here. I'd agree with you that Federer would be the favourite, but not by a whole lot.
     
    #30
  31. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Good job. So, very predictably, Djoko got the group of "almost" death and Fed got the group of "almost" cake. What a surprise :oops:
     
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  32. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Oh, I shouldn't have put Almagro in Tipsy's place.
     
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  33. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Public memory is too short.

    Forget the bagel served to Nole at Cincinatti finals ?
     
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  34. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    What? in the case of Delpo, I have to disagree. He's made the WTF final before and he's played well indoor recently.
     
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  35. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with you that Federer has been out of form and not impressive in the past couple of months (since Cincy) but this is an event that Federer usually gets pumped for and excels at so I have to hope that his ownage of Del Potro continues. However, it certainly would not surprise me if Fed lost here to Del Potro. I think Fed has achieved everything he wanted to (except for the OG) this year. Will be interesting to see how badly he wants another WTF.
     
    #35
  36. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    I can't see Del Potro winning this IF Djokovic is mentally into it (that is a question mark), Murray is playing his best and Federer is playing his best. If those three are not in their best form, then Del Potro has a chance imo.
     
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  37. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    I hope that Federer and Del Potro will make the semi finals. A Djokovic/Murray - Federer semi and a Djokovic/Murray - Del Potro semi would be amazing to see in the last tournament of the season.

    I really hope Del Potro can beat Ferrer this time, for some reason he seems to have a lot of trouble with him. It feels as if Ferrer is the player that is keeping Del Potro away from the top 5. As soon as he figures out how to beat Ferrer, I feel that he will have a lot more confidence and we might actually have a Big 5 instead of just a Big 4. Of course this is all speculation, but I would really like it if he stepped up.
     
    #37
  38. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Fed's combined h2h against his group's got to be something like 30-3?
     
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