Yeah so World Cup needs a rule change

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Falloutjr, Jun 26, 2010.

  1. Falloutjr

    Falloutjr Banned

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    Can we please get all this diving out of the WC? It's really cheap and it's poor sportsmanship. Ghana seems to dive every time a US player comes within 5 feet of them...
     
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  2. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    In fact there are rules for that, but refferees have the bad habit of not make them effective.

    But every diving player should get a yellow card when it's very obvious.
     
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  3. Gonzo

    Gonzo Rookie

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    I don't think Ghana was diving much at all. I do remember Altidore diving and getting a yellow for the other player. And also someone from USA diving in the box looking for the penalty.
     
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  4. Falloutjr

    Falloutjr Banned

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    Well it should be enforced. If you watched the end of regulation and extra time, you know what I mean. They were faking so many injuries, it was hard to watch. Ghanian players just going down of no accord and burning the clock. I'm not the most savvy soccer fan, but that is not fair, in my opinion.
     
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  5. Slayer_of_Kings

    Slayer_of_Kings New User

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    Also too many players on the field.. gives the defense an edge that turns games in to indecisive slogging matches.
     
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  6. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

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    Please go..
     
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  7. Dave M

    Dave M Hall of Fame

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    It is enforced,sadly the game has ben getting worse but the refs are starting to book people again for it which is better but they do get it wrong as we sa the Ghanian guy get booked when he and altidore got tangled up.When people are down th ref stops his watch so you don't loose time, it's why we have "injury time" and why there was 3 minutes at the end of the 45,90 or in this case 120 mins of extra time as well.
    Are you proposing when you haven't got the ball some of the team goes and sits down?
     
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  8. bezs

    bezs Legend

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    I don't recall Ghana throwing themselves all about to the ground, Torres did a 10 last night and the Italians are almost 10 throughout the team.
     
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  9. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    You mean the same challenge that saw Jozy get his foot stepped on and elbowed in the back of the head? Thank god you're not a ref.

    Ghana not diving much? Holy ****, I guess you haven't watched much of them. Same thing as in 2006, their blatant and offensive diving robbed the match of any legitimacy and their team of any respect.

    A.B.G = Anyone But Ghana.
     
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  10. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    That's what annoys me the most, much more than diving: when players at the end of the match fake injuries to burn the clock. I always thought in this kind of WC matches, when a player is down and seems to be injured, take him out ot the field and have a forced time out. If he's really injured, time out will help or just won't recover, and if he's not injured, just wait out there and leave your team with one less player for a while.

    If not, we always see scenes like today: a Ghana player taken out by medical assistances, and jumping out the stretcher as soon as he was out on the side.
     
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  11. Gonzo

    Gonzo Rookie

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    You don't know what you are talking about, once again!!! Sorry mate but you are way too biased when it comes to the USA. You only see USA. You hate any team that plays or beat the USA.

    Thank God you are not a ref!!
     
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  12. Falloutjr

    Falloutjr Banned

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    You have to at least admit the Ghanian players faked several injuries and stalled in very cheap, very inconspicuous ways. Bias or no, that's still concrete, and should have been put to an end after the first couple "injuries".
     
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  13. coyfish

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    any team would have done that including the US. It is part of the game and always has been. Nothing new.
     
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  14. Fifth Set

    Fifth Set Professional

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    Which takes us back to the point of the thread. If every team does it, it's nothing new and it's pretty lame, why doesn't FIFA act on it finally?

    Because FIFA is the most arrogant sports governing body in the world. "We are popular worldwide so we don't really care about the problems." FIFA has written off the American market (which hates ties and needs commercial breaks for big television contracts) for decades and increasingly seems to be giving the whole planet the finger too.
     
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  15. T1000

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    Is that the one where Jozy was inside the box and barely missed the goal even though the refs probably should have ruled it a pk?
     
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  16. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    You obviously don't follow F1. Bernie Eccelstone makes these guys look like amateurs. He holds cities hostage to get races; holds races at stupid times (and dangerous for the drivers - nighttime in Singapore!) to fit the UK TV schedule.

    Don't hold your breath. You'll never get any admission out of them. The Euros, especially the Brits, on this board are gleeful that the US is out. Would have crushed them that we would have potentially gone further than them, sending our leftover athletes.

    Doesn't the EPL, or one of the other top Euro leagues, review dives after matches and suspend players if the ref doesn't pick it up?
     
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  17. coyfish

    coyfish Hall of Fame

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    What would you have them do ?
     
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  18. Falloutjr

    Falloutjr Banned

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    I would have them stop the clock if a player goes down on a team that's ahead or the clock keep going if a player goes down on a team that is behind or tied. This would give players no incentive to "get injured". Also, if you leave for an injury, you cannot re-enter the game for at least 5 minutes.
     
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  19. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    A few things. First off, I AM a ref. I'm certified by US Soccer and FIFA to referee U18 matches and under. I've been reffing about for 5 years. I've had more experience playing and reffing than most on this board. I've played with kids who have represented youth national teams (Mexican U14 and Swiss U18), MLS clubs (LA Galaxy, NYRB), youth squads of Premier League clubs (most notably FC Wimbledon when they were still in the Premier League), and so fourth.

    Secondly, I'm not your mate.

    Thirdly, I don't hate any team that plays the USA. I don't hate Spain. I don't hate Argentina, nor do I feel any kind of apathy towards Brazil, Portugal, Turkey, etc... I dislike any team that cheats to waste time or in victory. I can't stand anyone who dives. There's a reason that while I have several close relatives who are Italian (as in born and raised in Rome), I HATE the Italian national team. I can't stand them.

    Ok, now let's begin. I've re-watched the match twice already. I've studied the replays of the dives that occurred in extra time. The match ended 6 hours ago, I've spent a good 4 of them looking over footage with several others who I watched the match with. There were several instances, especially once Ghana took the 2-1 lead, where the players simply fell down and feigned injury in order to wasted time. Again, your anti-USA bias is showing, because you're a Eurosnob who can't stand to see the USA care about football because it means that we're going to be kicking your asses on a regular basis in the near future.
     
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  20. Fifth Set

    Fifth Set Professional

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    These are good ideas, as would be instructing refs to actually call the diving infraction (including cards).

    FIFA also needs to eliminate the tie. There are way too many of them and, at 0-0 in a game hundreds of millions are potentially watching, it's pretty ridiculous. Overtime, sudden death, shootouts, whatever. If the boneheads that run the NHL finally figured out a point system for that then surely FIFA can pull it off?
     
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  21. coyfish

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    Thats the point of extra time.
     
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  22. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

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    1. It's called a draw.
    2. Draws are very important at the club level and obviously in these tournaments in groups for the lesser teams.
    3. FIFA shouldn't change the way the game has been played since being introduced because people who watch the sport once every four years don't see the point in a draw.
     
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  23. skip1969

    skip1969 Legend

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    i don't mind draws. i do mind diving. i'm not sure what brilliant scheme i would come up with to eliminate it from the game. it's just something that is ingrained in the mindset of certain players/teams.

    i think fifa hasn't given the refs the confidence to enforce the rules to the maximum. so the refs are swayed by the circumstances of the situation: where the dive occurs, who is doing the diving, what's the time, what's score, etc. if they were given the full power to book divers for every cynical dive, then we might see an eventual change. sure, you'd have matches ending with 10 men versus 9, and really lopsided scores, probably. but it wouldn't take much time for players and managers to realize that the refs mean business and players should stay on their feet unless they are ready to face the wrath of the fans and media for costing their side a victory.

    having said that, i didn't think ghana any more or less than any other side and i can only recall one real instance in extra time when i rolled my eyes.
     
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  24. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    I hate offsides. I really dont get the point of it but it will never ever be eliminated so why cry about it. They punish players for being faster than the defender. Every other sport speed and breakaways are huge. In soccer you have to wait for the defender to get into position and check the rest of the field before moving forward. It slows the game down and stops people from scoring.
     
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  25. OKUSA

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    You need offsides otherwise it will just be longballs into the penalty box all day long
     
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  26. coyfish

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    Not at all. If anything offsides helps the faster player. Offsides has nothing to do with who is faster. It allows the game to progress faster. When a team is pushing the defense (of attacking team) can move up and keep attacking. If offsides didn't exist than the defense would have to sit back because the other team could just camp by the goal and wait for the long ball.

    Hockey has the same type of situation.
     
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  27. Fifth Set

    Fifth Set Professional

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    This can be solved with the use of zones (think the blue line in ice hockey, which is much more objective for the refs to call than offsides in soccer). Again, there are many ways to increase scoring, reduce cheating, etc., but it takes a willingness to improve the game in the first place. Sort of like the alcoholic's first step to recovery is admitting that he has a problem.

    As Breaker's angry post demonstrates perfectly, FIFA and its apologists like being constantly drunk just fine and will tell you to go screw yourself if you suggest doing anything to move their precious vodka from its usual place.
     
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  28. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    That has more to do with the puck getting into the zone first. The defenders can stand anywhere they want and it doesnt effect where the player can go. Plus a hockey game is 3-4 times faster with transitions than soccer.

    I just hate how you see someone get a good run in only to be called back because he is one step to early. That is frustrating as hell and I wish there was some way to change that rule to let the players go.
     
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  29. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    True, it adds to the level of tactics needed. Like this afternoon with Germany against England, you can bet Defoe will have a huge battle with the German centre backs where he hangs on their shoulder waiting to get the service to get in behind them. To stop this the German's would usually go deeper to combat his pace and leave less room in behind them for him to work in. If they do that then that means the gap between their defence and midfield gets bigger for players like Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard.

    In a game there are lots of little tactical battles, something that the offside rule helps to promote.

    The rule also makes every goal scored be more satisfying than it would be if it didn't exist, like this one for example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-ZWVFElIyk

    The skill in the build up and Drogba timing his run perfectly is a thing of beauty.
     
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  30. BullDogTennis

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    all soccer is, is a bunch of grass fairies!
     
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  31. BullDogTennis

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    offisdes prevents cherry pickers (an offensive player just standing by thte goal by himself) waiting for someone to launch it down there...
     
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  32. snoopy

    snoopy Professional

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    Frustrating as hell pretty much sums up the way I feel about watching soccer.

    The players at the World Cup are clearly very talented and they can do all kinds of cool things with the ball. But it feels like the way the game is played prevents these athletes from displaying the full array of their skill.
     
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  33. Justdoit10

    Justdoit10 Guest

    If offsides didnt exist, Soccer would have basketball-like scores. 45-38.:)
     
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  34. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Good comeback...

    HOWEVER -- you are biased, or a trully BAD ref...

    Every team dives and fakes, some more, some less. Ghana did not do anything more than the others, and the USA in particular. Actually, toward the end, the US player faked, Ghana guy got a yellow for absolutely no reason and will miss the next match...

    The bottom line is, Ghana played smarter and better, the US had more (half) chances. Either one did not deserve to be among the best 8, but one had to advance...

    Ah, yes, and I am a USsnob who understands that the US is far, far behind the real football powers (unlike you)...
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
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  35. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Actually, they did sanction that by adding extra time. For you, that started following football last few years, that rule did not exist some years ago.

    As for the Governing body arrogance -- it is the same with any governing body. You justsee it in this case because of being a sore loser -- I am wondering how come other nations are not whining about it so much. Because it is a part of the game, accept it...
     
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  36. Falloutjr

    Falloutjr Banned

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    It's different though, in soccer. In other sports, there are regulations as to how much time you can waste with stalling (football has a play clock and OOB, basketball has a 5 second rule, stops on pass-ins in last 2 mins of the game, shot clock, must at least put the ball in play). There is almost nothing to limit stalling in soccer. I don't mean to be a "typical American" by comparing soccer to other sports, I just want to show my mindset and why I think the rules should be changed or enforced. I don't think there's anything wrong with sitting there and stalling by passing the ball back and forth, but feigning injuries and holding the ball on the sidelines for an eternity is bush-league and the Ghanian players shouldn't have pride in how they won.
     
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  37. SempreSami

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    Never mind the diving, you lot got done in by a long ball over the top LOL.
     
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  38. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

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    That's not true. I'm not Brit but I'm an Euro, and I was rooting for the USA.

    I said before that what I don't really like was injuries faking in the overtime, no matter which team does it, no matter if all of them do. I didn't like when Ghana did it and I won't like it if Spain do it.

    I have to say too that people who watches football once every four years and wants to change rules have to think first about a good reason why to changea particular rule. For example, getting ride of offsides is something that no one who has a clue about football/soccer would ever do because it would be a disaster.

    I root for the USA but some American fans on here (some, because other are true football fans) have to understand football has existed decades and decades before the USA became a knowledgeable part of it. Yes, there are offsides, there are draws and there are 11 players by team, and that's how the game works. I'm open to discuss disciplinary changes about diving or faking injuries, but the game itself is OK as it is.
     
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  39. EP1998

    EP1998 Semi-Pro

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    Excellent post!
     
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  40. EP1998

    EP1998 Semi-Pro

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    Don't be so sure about that. A lot of people who post on here don't talk directly about their experiences or name names and places. They are willing to risk that people wont take their posts as seriously rather than divulge any personal information or details that would back them up.
     
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  41. Fifth Set

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    Well, it didn't even take one half of soccer in the next match for our point to be proven again.

    More lousy officiating and FIFA's arrogant refusal to even consider goal line replays costs England an obvious goal.

    What will FIFA's apologists scream this time? That us Americans are just bitter because now the mother country got robbed?!
     
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  42. Breaker

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    Except everyone but that twat Platini knows that we need goaline technology.
     
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  43. Dilettante

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    Oops, wrong thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
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  44. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Jozy had the guy get a yellow because the guy stepped on Jozy's foot and then elbowed him in the head. Replays showed that.

    I'm aware.

    I know that we're far enough behind to be cheated out of a clean win, loss, or tie.

    Again, that's why I said "most" and not "all". I'm well aware that there are people with more experience than I will ever have.
     
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  45. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Fixed for you.
     
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  46. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

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    Yeah you're right, Platini's still a twat though :)
     
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  47. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    Oh... you are american? no wonder you post so much sheize on footbal threads!!!!

    sorry! i thought you are just a troll... works out you are just footbal ignorant!

    my bad!
     
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  48. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Of course they should...
    The US captain defense performance in the overtime was a joke -- directly responsible for that goal...

    In this game, the US team was not any better (performer), Ghana deserved to advance...
     
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  49. coyfish

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    Replays . . . no, but goal line technology . . . yes
     
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  50. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Are any of the Euro or S Amer pro leagues use it.

    Sorry, Brits. This is called Karma. You stick your noses in the air and say "those Americans want to change everything; our game doesn't need any improving." Payback is a 'you know what'.
     
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