Your NTRP progression

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by pgreg, May 16, 2010.

  1. SlapShot

    SlapShot Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Is this with legitimate USTA ratings?

    Sorry, but I just don't buy that someone who started less than 2 years ago is expecting to be playing at a VERY elite level in 3 years.
     
    #51
  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    37,418
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I agree.
    Even the BEST and QUICKEST athlete who's played tennis for 2 years, and I mean 5 days a week, 6 hours a day, with great instruction, cannot win consistently even at 4.0 levels. Just hasn't seen enough different types of players.
    No substitute for EXPEIRENCE, something you get from twice that # of years to get to 4.0. Much less 4.5 or highers.
    I think a great athlete (after 2 years of tennis) CAN enter a 4.5 tourney, or even an Open, but that doesn't mean they can be competitive at that level.
     
    #52
  3. bpp

    bpp New User

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    69
    Started playing around 12 and played a couple non-sanctioned tournies and HS tennis till 17. Quit tennis for basically 11 years.

    2009: Started playing again and self-rated 3.5 and did well. Bumped to 4.0.
    2010: Playing 4.0 right now and doing well. I think I am at the top of the tier but have trouble beating a lot of teams #1 singles player and probably stronger teams #1 and #2. I think its possible to get bumped up to 4.5 but somehow travel always gets in the way of my practice schedule.

    Perhaps 1 more season at 4.0 and then next season I will get bumped. I am competitive with 4.5s right now in doubles but I doubt singles. I think I would hit a wall at 4.5 as I play in a strong county. The jump from 4.5 to 5.0 seems very difficult for someone like me whose athletic ability is on the decline and having a normal 9-5 job (where I dont teach tennis).
     
    #53
  4. bodieq

    bodieq Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    164
    Whoa, I didn't think anyone else knew about those Berkeley courts on Virginia/7th....
     
    #54
  5. pgreg

    pgreg New User

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    93
    Yes. Rollins College and Transylvania
     
    #55
  6. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,928
    Location:
    Taunton, MA
    i'm prolly just a hacker. started playing twice a year beginning freshmen year of high school. started getting serious about it in 11th grade. took 2 years off because family moved. started again 2 years ago.

    so...
    2004-2010: 3.0

    played:

    2008 Mens C 64 draw: lost 1st round
    2009 Mens C 64 draw: lost 1st round... .

    2010 Mens C 64 draw: PLEASE LET ME GET PASS THE 1ST ROUND!!!!

    playing a lot more consistent this year. tourny is at Chesire Academy in CT. only play one tourney a year so i use it to gauge myself.
     
    #56
  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    37,418
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Bodieg..
    If you ever want to hit or play, I'm around the BerkeleyMarina AM's except for Tuesday and Friday (work), and every other Sat. (work).
    I left my # on an earlier post on this thread.
    I"m a falling 4.0, so don't expect too tough a competition.
     
    #57
  8. harleywilson

    harleywilson Rookie

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Georgia
    started in 2008 as a 2.5. Played one season got bump to 3.0. In 09 joined a 3.5 team played one season got the bump to 3.5. Just got bumped to 4.0 in March. Dynamic is probably 3.50000000000000001. Got mashed playing my first 4.0 player. May have to switch to doubles in 4.0 with a damn good partner to improve. The rest of my team got bumped up to 4.0 anyway. I should probably appeal 4.0 rating (I aint near that good). Record at 3.5 was pretty good.
     
    #58
  9. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    3,061
    Location:
    somewhere in calif
    when you are 'older', your NTRP varies by day/month/year, depending on your ailments :)

    day A , 75% injury free, NTRP = x
    day B, 100% injury free, NTRP = x + 0.5
    day C, 25% injury free, NTRP = x - 1
    day D, 50% injury free, NRTP = x - 0.5

    or something like that.. :)
     
    #59
  10. duffman

    duffman Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    171
    2005 3.0 self-rate (never played tennis before)
    2006 3.0C
    2007 4.0C
    2008 4.5C
    2009 4.5C
    2010 4.5C (playing 5.0)
     
    #60
  11. cghipp

    cghipp Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,282
    1993-1998? - 3.0
    1998?-2007 - 3.5
    2008-present - 4.0

    I'll probably top out at 4.5 in the next few years, if I can avoid serious injury. No way I'll go higher than that. Half of my 4.0 team from last Spring was bumped up at the end of the year, and we're "getting the band back together" this fall as an 8.5 combo team.
     
    #61
  12. cghipp

    cghipp Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,282
    Anyone else remember when you had to go to a NTRP clinic to get rated, and at state tournaments the officials would go around with a clipboard and rate you while you played, to decide if you should be bumped? You had to pin a number to the back if your shirt so you could be identified property. It made me a nervous wreck!
     
    #62
  13. flydog21

    flydog21 New User

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    I remember when a real human person did the rating. I was rated as a 3.0. Now, years and years later, I am still a 3.0. I have gotten to be a much better player than then, but it seems the average NTRP level has come down as fast I go up. Plus, I get a year older every year, and now at 64 I am just not as quick. Its all good though, as I am here for the competition, the fun, and the excercise at whatever level. I wish I had taken up tennis as a youngster instead of football.
     
    #63
  14. cghipp

    cghipp Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,282
    I wish I had started earlier, too. I didn't really start playing until I got out of college. I would go hit around with friends, but not in any kind of organized way, and I never took lessons. I played softball and basketball, and I'm much better at tennis than I ever was at either of those.

    You never know, though. Maybe if I'd started earlier I would have gotten burned out on it. But it's hard to imagine that happening now. I'd play every day if I could!
     
    #64
  15. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,378
    Location:
    AR
    started at 4.5 in 1998 got bumped up to 5.0 this year.
    With self-rates now could have been a 4.0.
     
    #65
  16. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    960
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Currently 45 yo, never played competitive tennis until 2007.

    2007:3.0
    2008:3.0
    2009:3.0
    2010:3.0

    I'm weary of 3.0, but I missed the bump last year due to a terrible doubles record on a rebuilding team. I upped my tennis time greatly this year. Playing singles this year for the first time, and I am currently 3-0. I also play part-time on a 3.5 team. Next year, whether I get bumped up or not, I will be playing on the 3.5 team as my primary. My eventual goal is 4.0, so I've decided I need to dedicate more time to the sport.
     
    #66
  17. TheOC

    TheOC New User

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    51
    I was a nationally ranked junior in the 12s and 14s. Stopped playing as much in high school, mostly just playing for my high school team and the better section tournaments. I played 2 at my high school by senior year, and we won state my senior year and got 7th at the National Invitational Tourney in Newport Beach. Despite not playing many USTA events I was still recruited by 4 different D1 schools: Army, Navy, Air Force, and Northern Colorado; the first 3 being undesirable for obvious reasons and the fourth for being in the middle of nowhere. Senior year of high school I decided to play alot more again, and started playing 5-6 days a week. Got back to national level and played in several level 2 National Opens prior to stopping again after the coach at the school I chose to attend told me that he would not give me the chance at a tryout, despite the fact that I beat two of his players in the local mens open city tournament that summer. :lol:

    Did a self rate in order to play with a 5.0 league team my friend put together, however based on my sectional ranking from the 18s I was rated as a 5.5. So, I filled out a request for a rating change to 5.0 saying that my sectional ranking was actually worse than it was so that I would get the 5.0 rating. Played one season for the 5.0 league team, with an .80 winning record. Going to play on a 9.0 team this summer with a friend of mine who is a 4.0. Trying to scrounge together a 10.0 mixed league as well this summer, but doesn't look promising due to the lack of 5.0 women, or 4.5's ballzy enough to play with the 5.0 guys out here.

    I'd say based on the talent of the other 5.0s here I'd say I fit in about right with that rating. Most are former D1 players plus a couple of guys who will be playing D1 next year and another guy I know who is in the same situation as me. I was kinda forced to get the rating change as there aren't any 5.5 or open leagues out here, and there are only a few 5.0 teams in the entire section. That being said there aren't many open tournaments either. Kinda live in the ****tiest section. Hooray for the Southwest!

    However, I hear Southwest isn't the only one with these kinds of problems... The USTA needs to revamp the NTRP system or organize it abit better because at the top amateur levels outside of college tennis (5.0-Open) there isn't much organization and the 5.0, 5.5 and open leagues are few and far between... Especially since there are an increasing number of guys out there like myself- since colleges are recruiting internationally, and the coaches are stubborn to let new recruits try out because they spent all this money recruiting internationally to get some guy who had a decent ITF ranking out of Taiwan, who looks good on paper since hes the best from Taiwan. So, in the coaches mind he must clearly be better than a guy who was ranked top 20 in his section seeing as he had to spend tons of money recruiting him versus a local kid (sarcasm).
     
    #67
  18. CrownR

    CrownR New User

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    NJ, Bergen County
    how can i find leagues around my area?
     
    #68
  19. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,398
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    here's my progression: don't know -> don't care -> really don't care.
    Anyway, I play in 3.5 and 4.0 leagues with similar results: 50% win.
     
    #69
  20. Turbo

    Turbo New User

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Actually I've known a few people that were around a 4.0, even after a year or so. It certainly takes great athletic ability and coordination, along with good reflexes and being a quick learner.

    I started playing for fun the summer before my Junior year in college and joined the club team a few months later. I kept playing there with some competition but never any formal instruction or coach. A little over 2 years later I started playing competitively at the 4.5 level (and it was where my opponents and partners agreed I should be playing).

    I learned a lot more and then got certified and have now been a teaching pro for a while
     
    #70
  21. KSJ1979

    KSJ1979 New User

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    played high school, but was NO good. Played JV on an undefeated state qualifying team. quit at 16 for 10 years.

    (all USTA leagues)

    2008: 4.0
    2009: 4.5
    2010: 4.5 +
    2011: 5.0? (fingers crossed, really hard transition!)
     
    #71
  22. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,189
    Late 70's to Early 80's - Open (pre NTRP - probably would be 5.5 now)
    Marriage, house, kids - DNP
    Early 90's - 5.0
    Mid 90's (multiple knee surgeries with multiple pieces of hardware) - 4.5
    Late 90's to ~2000 (Rotator Cuff) - 4.5 but no longer a sure win at #1
    2001 - 2003 (ankle, rotator cuff) - low 4.5
    2004 - 2007 (torn elbow tendon, marriage) - DNP
    2008 - present - (elbow tendon, more knee surgeries, achillies tendon) - 4.0 when able to play

    Working my way to 3.5
     
    #72
  23. mlktennis

    mlktennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    418

    ouch! was it mainly bad luck or you just played/ trained too much?
     
    #73
  24. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,189
    Rotator Cuff was definitely playing too much, there's only so many serves you can hit with that motion (re: Rafter). Elbow, I think, was from scraping, cleaning, and painting my ceiling, getting my arm very tight, then hitting one forehand late. Knee, ankle, achillies, marriages, were just bad luck.
     
    #74
  25. duffman

    duffman Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    171
    Never say never. If you want proof I can forward you my USTA info.
     
    #75
  26. mlktennis

    mlktennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    418
     
    #76
  27. cghipp

    cghipp Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,282
    True - that's why, for example, high-level play in another sport is one of the things that must be considered when self-rating. In fact, failure to disclose it can be grounds for disqualification, just as if you had failed to disclose college tennis experience.
     
    #77
  28. polski

    polski Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    Florida
    93-95 Played #2 for a pretty weak high school
    95-00 Played 3 or 4 times total (golfed & played intramural basketball)
    00-03 Didn't play
    03-07 Played ALTA in Atlanta as a social thing (High C to Low B)
    07 - 3.5, very overweight
    08 - 3.5, bumped to 4.0 end of year...lost 40 pounds
    09 - 4.0, Didn't play much, rotator cuff/labrum tear
    10 - avoided the massive USTA bump & remain at 4.0, played 4.5 also

    I have a feeling my bump will happen this year to 4.5. I went 3-1 at 4.0 and 3-1 at 4.5 playing singles (only 4.0 loss was a close doubles match against 2 undefeated players that will also get bumped).

    Anyways, I'm throwing myself into 3 or 4 tournaments this summer at 4.0 to take advantage of it. Doubt that I'll be able to win as much in 4.5 & open events next year so I'm hoping for some trophies.
     
    #78
  29. polski

    polski Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    Florida
    Anyone think that seniors should have different ratings for senior NTRP vs. regular NTRP?

    I play against a lot of good seniors at 4.5 that don't play regular level NTRP stuff because they just get killed at 4.5. They were good regular 4.0 players, but just don't have the speed to play 4.5 after their bump up.

    I believe that at 55 you should be able to be a 4.5 senior and a 4.0 regular NTRP player. I would assume that participation in leagues would rise if it were that way.

    Obviously, these should be treated exclusive of one another so that the really good seniors can't be automatic sandbags. But still, it would be good for the game to treat senior NTRP and regular NTRP ratings seperate.
     
    #79
  30. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    5,212
    Location:
    L. Island, NY
    1985-present: sucks
     
    #80
  31. BlueTennis

    BlueTennis New User

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    started playing tennis in feb 09

    2009: 3.0S (1-5 in Adult Lge)
    2010: 3.5C (currently 8-0 in Adult Lge)
    2011: very likely 4.0C
     
    #81
  32. cghipp

    cghipp Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,282
    I think everything depends on the senior in question. I have some "senior" friends who seem to still be getting better every single year. (Really, 50 doesn't seem very senior to me!) On the other hand, I know a couple of seniors about ten years older who were bumped to 4.5 in the "Great Bump of '09" and are not comfortable playing adult 4.5 because of the power/speed issue.

    If something like a dual rating system was instituted, I would think that only adult matches would count toward an adult rating, and only senior matches for senior ratings.
     
    #82
  33. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,189
     
    #83
  34. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,033
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I've been playing tennis for 30 years, on and off but have remained at 1.0 because I've never played a USTA match.
     
    #84
  35. 55 Feelin' Alive

    55 Feelin' Alive New User

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    45
    How does this USTA bump up /bump down work? I was rated 3.5 by a pro for my first time playing in a USTA league, in 2007. We had a newly organized team back then, and a horrible W-L record. The team disbanded. This year, after an absence from playing any competitive tennis, I elected to join another newly organized mens 3.5 USTA team, and like many new teams, it too is having a horrible W-L record (1-5, dead last); my record in #3 doubles is 0-2 and I have lost with 2 different partners convincingly. Will the USTA review my record and perhaps bump me down if I don't start showing some Wins, or do they see the strength of the teams we have lost too in the doubles matches; how does that work? I mean, in doubles, your partner could also be a factor in losses. Since there aren't many mens USTA 3.0 teams around here, I'd like to know if I'm in jeopardy of being bumped down. Even if I'm not dropped down, I suppose there's a risk that I'll be dropped from this team in the event they can poach better players for next year's version. And then who will want me on their squad? Ah, usta tennis.

    58 Feelin' Great
    formerly known as 55 feelin' alive
     
    #85
  36. cghipp

    cghipp Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,282
    Sandbagger! :twisted:
     
    #86
  37. cghipp

    cghipp Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,282
    We had someone from the USTA talk about this at our Spring adult league captain's meeting this year, after the "Great Bump of '09." This is what I remember from his presentation; I took a lot of notes but I don't have them in front of me. If you have any questions or think something is inaccurate, let me know and I'll try to dig out my notes.

    Your rating is computed dynamically after each USTA adult league match, and the rating actually goes to two decimal points. Each level has a certain "buffer" around it - for example, 3.5 might be from about 3.01 to 3.50. That's just a made-up example (not sure of those numbers) and the range isn't the same size for every level.

    The leagues that "count" toward your rating vary from section to section; here in the Southern section it's only the adult league. Mixed, combo, and singles leagues do not count, nor do tournaments. There is such a thing as a "mixed-only" rating, but they aren't very common, and they don't offer the same "protection" that a computer rating does. If you have a mixed-only rating and you play in the adult league the following year, your mixed rating is out the window and you start your rating over from scratch. That's because mixed ratings are so unreliable; even more than in women's or men's doubles, you can't be sure who's contributing what to the result, because there's often such a disparity in player strength in mixed.

    Anyway, your rating is figured based on a proprietary algorithm, much like Google search results, ha ha. If you play someone with a higher rating and you win, your rating will increase by a certain amount based on the score, your opponent's rating, and the formula. And something similar happens if you play something with a lower rating and you win, but not by the margin that you "should" have, according to the formula. Your rating will go down a bit. Similar calculations apply when you lose.

    So the formula takes into account your rating, your opponents' rating, and the score. In doubles, no matter the difference between your rating and your partner's rating, your rating and your partner's will increase or decrease the same amount after a match.

    Now, you may have heard about the infamous "three strikes" rule. According the rule, if your dynamic rating gets out of the range for your rating three times during the season, you will be bumped up. In other words, if on three occasions you beat someone higher than you (usually someone who is borderline themselves), and your rating moves up over the "bar" three times, you're going to be bumped. If you do not have a computer protected (C) or benchmark player (B) rating but are instead a self-rated (S), mixed-only (M), or the elusive tournament-only player (T), you may be subject to being bumped mid-season and having your previous match wins reversed.

    If, at the end of the season, you haven't had "three strikes" but your final dynamic rating puts you above the range for your rating, you'll be bumped. By the way, I think an "S" rating only lasts through your first USTA adult season, and after that you have a C or B rating. B ratings only indicate that you advanced to a championship level in a prior season (e.g. state tournament).

    Different areas have different rules for when players can be bumped or disqualified throughout the year. Where I am (Southern), if you have a computer-protected or benchmark rating, you can be bumped at the championships, but not during the regular season. I'm not sure how often that happens. The great majority of people around here don't find out if they're bumped until the new ratings come out in November.

    There is no three strikes rule for being bumped down - no one is going to contact you mid-year and demote you! You'll only be bumped down if your end-of-the-year dynamic rating is below the range for your level.

    Of course I can't be sure, but I think your rating is probably probably pretty safe. I don't think many people are put back down at 2.5 after being at 3.0, but I could be wrong about that. The good news is that, even if that does happen based on your current results, there's a lot of "year" left to show people that you can play, and to lay some groundwork for next year.

    Surely I have made some errors or caused some confusion in all of this, but I hope it helps answer your question!
     
    #87
  38. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,928
    Location:
    Taunton, MA
    freaking lost 1st round again this year...maybe next year i won't be a 3.0 anymore.... =(
     
    #88
  39. BethNJ

    BethNJ New User

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5
    2008- 3.0 self-rate
    2009- 3.0 C
    2010- 3.0 C

    I was hoping to be part of the great bump last Nov., but wasn't. I had 10 wins and 0 losses, and 2 beat 2 players that were bumped to 3.5.

    I just lost my first match- 1st singles (never played singles before). I really want to get bumped.
     
    #89

Share This Page