Youtube vids of young kids

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by wbdad, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. wbdad

    wbdad New User

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    #1
  2. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    Some are good, others are terrible. But I love the typical titles, prodigy, talent, or world-class, etc. Thanks for posting.
     
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  3. wbdad

    wbdad New User

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    Which ones are bad so that i know what to look for.... Thanks
     
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  4. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    Video 1 is good, but simply ball feeds don't tell a whole lot.
    2, 3, 4, and 5 are really bad if you look carefully. I'll just end it there.
    Video 6 is nothing more than advertising his club.
    And the last one, there is no big deal about a 9 year old learning to serve. So I don't get the the "prodigy" label.
     
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  5. wbdad

    wbdad New User

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    Thanks tennis_bum. I thought 1,4,and 5 were pretty good but I am not a coach so maybe i dont know what to look for.
     
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  6. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    You don't need to be a coach, but just pay attention then you will know what to look for.
     
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  7. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I remember most of those videos through the years. The number 6 video jumped out at me because on the surface the girl seems to have a nice forehand. But its a dead end, wiper style. That hits a ceiling in the women's game as they are rarely strong enough to generate enough spin. It sits up and the big girls just eat it alive.

    The girls have to hit through the ball more than the boys in order to advance as they get older. Putting it side by side with the male instructor's forehand is showing he does not get the big picture.
     
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  8. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    #8
  9. tenniscrazed

    tenniscrazed Guest

    The thing about this boy and all the others that post vids. They are either playing against 1) fed balls, 2) players getting paid while the kid is hitting, or 3) they are doing it as part of as "federation" deal. At the end of the day it means nothing.

    If this was a legitimate tournament match for money toward the end of the match. Now we've got what we want to see. In the meantime the US has nobody in the top 10 period end of story. Right now Jack Sock is the Baskin Robbins of the moment.
     
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  10. gino

    gino Hall of Fame

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    #10
  11. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    I guess she is in "dead end" and hit a ceiling. And her papa does not get the big picture:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37as86KZ3bQ&feature=related
     
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  12. tenniscrazed

    tenniscrazed Guest

    Look at the finish at 1:00 exactly on Wozniaki and .09 of your player. Hardly the same finish. But that's OK because she's only 8 or 9. She'll get it right???
     
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  13. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    You are right, the 20 year old pro controls her racket much better than 8 year old. The small girl was probably recently switched to adult racket and holds it with 3 fingers. I guess all this will be corrected as she gets stronger. And she is not "my player" and there is no reason for your usual personal attacks. But with all due respect to TCF some of his statements are highly debatable.
     
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  14. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    Pretty good on your part, but just because the 2 strokes look similar, that doesn't mean they are similar if you look closely.
     
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  15. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    He's pretty good, how old is he? I am guessing he was hitting with Sam Querrey at high performance center in Carson. Who is this kid? My only comment is that the serve is not as good as it can be for a lefty.
     
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  16. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Really? I think this kid is really good. He's got a good handle on all the strokes, he's got good speed, footwork, and he's working the points pretty well. I saw some defense to offense transition that was pretty darn good. He's 12 playing Sam Querry! And... it looked to me like Sam was hitting the ball pretty well and not just tossing them in there. The kid returned some serves that were pretty fast and had some kick. Too critical, this kid is good.
     
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  17. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Not the same strokes. The little girl was slapping/wiping up on the ball a ton more and was not using the kinetic chain on her strokes. Much of the power comes from the way Woz bends her knees, loads up, then moves her weight into her shot. That is very different than the little girl jumping up and wiping the ball. There is a lot more to a forehand than just the stroke pattern.

    My point was that many parents and coaches try to teach the girls the same way as the boys...and the girls dead end since they can not generate enough spin long term.

    This fact has been mentioned over and over by Rick Macci, Lansdorp, Emilio-Sanchez and many top coaches. It is a common correction made when they get many girls who have been coached by others who do not know this.

    Its not being mean....it may seem obvious to many parents and coaches to teach girls extreme top spin. They usually are on board when you explain why this is not the right thing for the future.

    The little girl in that video is a nice athlete....no one should say other wise. But her stroke will most likely limit her in the future.

    And my initial post said RARELY strong enough....their are always exceptions. But the vast majority of girls are way better off long term to hit through the ball more than wipe it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
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  18. wbdad

    wbdad New User

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    How about some of the experts here post some videos of "good" strokes from kids so we can see what to look for. Thanks!
     
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  19. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    100% CORRECT!!!!!
     
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  20. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Dear TCF,
    Your point is that the WV forehand is not good for women and they need to hit through the ball. Do you agree that Wos hits WV forehand on all shots? I can add a few more videos of pro women hitting WV, especially shorter women (5'8" and below). There is no point to critisize the 8 yo but she is being taught the same technique as the current pros are using now. She is just not there yet.
     
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  21. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    Seriously, Querrey was playing at best his 50% capacity. This kid is pretty good, but don't jump into conclusion that Querrey was playing tough on this kid.
     
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  22. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Thats' Evan Nguyen. He's close to 13 now and been training last couple of years at Carson under (former) coach Roditi. USTA didn't invite him back this year though.

    The story behind that match was that apparently Sam wanted to be part of the Carson challenge ladder over the summer. Just so happened Evan was the kid closest to him when he was there that week. Sam is a great guy and a great role model for the kids!
     
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  23. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    USTA is a joke for real. It operates based on network, not for the sake of building or searching for real talent. Sure, any pro who is willing to take his time to hit/play with kids is a really nice person.
     
    #23
  24. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    USTA cut back significantly on the number of kids invited for their fall afterschool program. The common link among the kids who did get invited for the fall seems to be the fact they all had a parent who was a former professional. Anything else is probably better left unsaid.
     
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  25. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    From USTA rankings... he has played 126 matches in the last 12 months :shock:
    83-43 record. How do these kids not get burned out?
     
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  26. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I didn't, and wouldn't say Querry was playing him tough, but he made the kid work harder than any 12 year old ever could. This kid is good, and we should be encouraging kids like this, not tearing them down. I agree with you on most vids of kids hitting. Doesn't say much about their game and parents/coaches cherry pick the best shots to post. But this kid is actually playing a match, which shows a lot.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
    #26
  27. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    I think the USTA rankings show 63-34, which includes doubles.
    Tennisrecruiting.net shows 23 tournaments and a singles record of 56 - 29.

    If you live in Huntington Beach and want to play "practice" matches on the weekends why not play in a tournament?

    Evan is a super nice kid and loves to play.
     
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  28. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    klu....the two strokes are totally different. Woz is bending her knees, loading up, using her core, and after striking the ball following through over her shoulder. The power generated with that stroke is way more, no matter if hit by an 8 year old or a 28 year old.

    The little girl is not loading up and her slapping motion follows through in front of her face and then down towards her side. Her wiping motion happens all in front of her and is very extreme. Woz's racquet ends up behind her shoulder.

    Its night and day the power that each method will generate. The follow throughs alone are so different, a wiping motion in front of the body vs a traditional topspin forehand follow through over the shoulder.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
    #28
  29. wbdad

    wbdad New User

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    Very interesting comments from all. TFC or Tennisbum, do you have any post of videos of any kids that you think is good in technique? I'm more interested in the swing for a young player and not comparing them directly to pros.
     
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  30. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    I didn't want to go into the details because I know someone will ask for a videos. On the surface, the strokes look similar but, boy, are they different. I'll just end with that.
     
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  31. jigglypuff

    jigglypuff Rookie

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    Yes, Sam is genuinely a nice down-to-earth guy.

    As for the USTA, I disagree. The're there to build and search for real talent, just that they are not very good at it.
     
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  32. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I can speak for the USTA high performance program in Boca....we have been there everyday now for 8 days. What a huge waste. 23 great courts and a handful of 'high performance' kids....maybe 3-4 look dang good, the rest so-so.

    But there is zero programming for other kids...no Quickstart, no clinics....nothing. After 5 pm there are a few (2-3-4) kids taking private lessons.....no prodigies, just average local kids.

    The rest of these top notch courts are used by the staff and their friends playing social tennis like they own the place. And most are like 3.0 players, secretaries, maybe a few of the pros. Fancy cars roar into the parking lot and they act like its their country club.

    And this is the flagship facility that should be set up to be a kid magnet

    I can only imagine the epic amount of money being thrown here. Most of it just a waste.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
    #32
  33. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    If you want text book stuff....this boy has a nice forehand....look for the total package, he is balanced, keeps the feet moving, well timed split step, nice grip, take back, points off hand down the baseline, rotate the core, good contact point, follow through.

    But it is what it is, fed balls and slow controlled feeds. And we all know kids his age who hit a whole lot harder than this but may not look as text book. And when he gets in a real match setting he could be mediocre. But as far as basic form, he is pretty good.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lYB9w-yiDg
     
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  34. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Dear TCF,
    You continue to criticise the little girl while I question your opinion that windshield wiper forehand is not goood for (all) women. Many women pros use it successfully. I believe most of them are shorter and very athletic, they are not trying to finish the point quickly because they can defend and win long rallies and loopy shots give them more margin for errors. Some of them like Sciavone can also go to the net. Just look at the players who went deep into this year's US Open - most of them are good athletes with reliable loopy strokes:
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2541384/zvonareva_vs_clijsters_forehand_front_slow_motion/
    Unless we consider all these top pros as exceptions and the regular girls should just hit through the ball...
     
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  35. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Dear TCF,
    You continue to criticise the little girl while I question your opinion that windshield wiper forehand is not goood for (all) women. Many women pros use it successfully. I believe most of them are shorter and very athletic, they are not trying to finish the point quickly because they can defend and win long rallies and loopy shots give them more margin for errors. Some of them like Sciavone can also go to the net. Just look at the players who went deep into this year's US Open - most of them are good athletes with reliable loopy strokes:
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2541384/zvonareva_vs_clijsters_forehand_front_slow_motion/
    Unless we consider all these top pros as exceptions and the regular girls should just hit through the ball...
     
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  36. tenniscrazed

    tenniscrazed Guest

    ^^^^^ You guys are kidding me right. I have yet to see one kid on any of these videos that has an inkling of a chance at anything beyond high school tennis. No I'm not being negative yadi, yadi, yadi. Here is why. This is a pro

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arKBiKoantk

    And my friends this is what a future pro looks like. Not some yaihoo playing in Carson against 30% balls by a 6'9" pro that could ace him with his eyes closed. Get a grip on reality.
     
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  37. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    TCF,

    With all due respect, you just aren't qualified to speak for USTA. You aren't part of the program and you aren't privy to all the information to share accurate information. In my opinion, your opinion is presumptuous and misleading.

    The information you cite appears to be based on observation and I believe that you aren't in a position to share all the facts. For example, USTA doesn't have access to 23 courts at Evert. Not even close. Nor are you familiar with the intricacies of the USTA program. If you see tennis after 5PM -- those average local kids you see aren't the USTA kids...they are done by then.

    I would encourage you to bend John Evert's ear about the USTA program. I believe you'd hear a different opinion about the USTA program. In fact, I know you would.
     
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  38. tenniscrazed

    tenniscrazed Guest

    ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ You guys are kidding me right. I have yet to see one kid on any of these videos that has an inkling of a chance at anything beyond high school tennis. No I'm not being negative yadi, yadi, yadi. Here is why. This is a pro

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arKBiKoantk

    And my friends this is what a future pro looks like. Not some yaihoo playing in Carson against 30% balls by a 6'9" pro that could ace him with his eyes closed. Get a grip on reality.
     
    #38
  39. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    TCF tends to : exaggerate: quite a bit. But yet he tends to brag about his little 5 or 6 yearold who hits the ball "hard". We have yet to see any videos of his daughter probably because she isnt all that good as he promotes her to be. After all you can't really tell how good a kid is until the later teen years.

    Prob just some poser tennis coach that loves to hide behind the computer and act smart. Who do you have on your resume TFC? Any top players? juniors? anyone?
     
    #39
  40. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    uhhh this girl is definitely good and more advanced but consider that she is 4 years older than the kids in the original video list.
     
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  41. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    This girl can definitely play tennis ... I've seen her play a few times. But, it's absolutely crazy to label an 11 or 12 year old as a future pro. Just enjoy her game. Way, way too many things between now and pro. Genes. Health. Development. Boys. Luck. I also heard rumors that she signed up for crazy money with a clothing company - unconfirmed.
     
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  42. tenniscrazed

    tenniscrazed Guest

    That's just the video I found with the little time I had. But rest assured that is what the future looks like.

    Honestly I would put money on the her vs the kid playing Querrey. With that footwork and level of intensity that is unmatched.

    In fact if someone wants to set up that match. I've got $500 says she wins in three maybe straights against this Nyguyen kid. Seriously the kid is in the wrong sport. Honestly I would stick with the math, science and health and let the kids like her become pros. But I've got $500 says she works him.
     
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  43. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    BTW, who said the Evan Nguyen was turning pro or pro was his aspiration. Perhaps, he just enjoys playing tennis. Sure beat playing video games and eating chips and drinking sodas all day long. Yes, that girl in the video is good, but why does she have the strap on her knees already at such a young age. Is she overtrained? How old is she really, I am guessing around 13, wild guess. I'll keep an eye out for to see if I see her on the WTA tour soon. She'll probably make it, but it's really tough to say. Don't bet your life savings away yet.
     
    #43
  44. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    Found with little time??? I think not. You have that link bookmarked for quite some time now. I think you must have some type of obsession with the girl since this is like the 10th time you've mentioned about her. ewwww. grownazz man.
     
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  45. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    No, this boy is terrible. The only thing good about him is that his parents are willing to finance the IMG's staff.
     
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  46. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    ooo.. this thread is getting very interesting.. where's that thread bookmark feature? :)
     
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  47. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    Did you get to see any of the High Performance kids play? Is the money going to waste or there are some girls and boys that actually have the game to reach the next level?
     
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  48. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Bum, thanks for making that point! Evan loves tennis and he lives and breathes the game. But the crazed one is right, he's definitely sticking with the math and science because his dream is to play tennis for Stanford and become an opthamologist... Then maybe if TC still needs a job a few years from now Evan can hire him to mow his lawn :)
     
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  49. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    tenniscrazed i sure hope img fixes Shishkinas backhand...Her footwork and intensity are incredible.Im just hoping they get that backhand fixed quick because muscle memory is going to haunt her if she doesnt fix that backhand now.On the next level when the pressure is on that backhand will break down.I know she is only 12 but that backhand really concerns me.At 12 that should have already been fixed.Im not saying she wont be great i hope my daughter is on that level at 12 but that follow thru is a mess!!!!
     
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  50. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Too many posts to address but a few points:

    1. klu....enough with that little girl video. Woz is not wiping the ball in front of her face, the girl is....end of story. So Macci and Sanchez and Lansdorp are all stupid for teaching girls to hit through the ball and not wipe?....whatever. Not one top WTA player wipes the ball in front of her face like that girl is. I also said she was a great athlete so no one is criticizing her....just saying that top coaches would change her stroke.

    2. chalkflewup.....I have been at Evert's in Boca 4 times a day for 9 days now. Its a mess. The kids are mostly average with about 3-4 good ones. They are rude, they throw their trash everywhere, the practice sessions are half decent at best. They can not get off the courts fast enough. I watched their morning run about 4 hours ago....run 20 feet, stop, talk, look at some babies in strollers walking by....a total joke.

    How many courts does the USTA have access too in Boca?? I don't see Quickstart or any kids programs on even one of them. I see rich adults playing on all of them.

    I know the USTA kids are done by 5 pm, thats why I said that. After that time the USTA courts should be used for Quickstart, etc and they are not despite tons of kids around here.

    If you are buddies with the USTA people, I do not mean to offend. But what I see in Boca isn't much to brag about.

    3. bum....A dad asked for a video of a text book forehand by a kid and I posted one. The boy's forehand is text book perfect. And like I said in the post....that means nothing to how successful he will be. I am not a fanatic for strokes having to be text book. But the dad asked for a model and one was shown.

    4. crazed....I agree on Shishkina....people get caught up on strokes and their appearance. Some top pros have strange looking strokes. Yes, her backhand needs work. But she is so much more intense and athletic than almost any player you see, she will be a winner.

    5. Enough with the resume requests. I have said a billion times my information comes from coaches like Macci and Lansdorp and Sanchez and Nick B. and Saviano, coaches I have worked with or attended multiple seminars by. Don't believe me, go talk/work with these guys who have proven results.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
    #50

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