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-   -   Myth or Reality? Federer plays with a low swingweight (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=101074)

travlerajm 10-10-2006 11:05 PM

Myth or Reality? Federer plays with a low swingweight
 
The debate over Federer's true specs has waged on this forum for a long time.

As we all know, forum member Greg Raven has acquired one of Fed's frames. He has not only measured its specs, but also made an admirable effort to do playtest comparisons against other similar Wilson frames. His conclusion was that Federer's racquet has virtually identical specs to the nSix-One Tour 90.

For some people, this settled the debate. I am not one of those people.

I believe that Greg Raven's racquet is authentic. However, I also believe that the specs of the racquet in Mr. Raven's possession are very different than the specs of the racquet Federer actually uses on the court. Specifically, I believe that Federer has roughly 12g of lead stashed under his bumper, and that the lead was removed before it was given away. The extra lead would bump his swingweight up by 30 or 40 kg-cm^2.

Why do I believe this? If you study Federer's strokes carefully, and the way the ball responds off his strings, it becomes apparent that his swingweight is much higher than the 330 that Mr. Raven measured. This is most easily observed on volleys and returns. Also, the spin efficiency of his racquet (massive spin without a steep uppercut swingpath) is not achievable with such a low swingweight.

As always, I expect many of you to disagree with me.
It may be a long time before we have a definitive answer, since it is in Federer's best interest to maintain secrecy of his exact specs (just as Roddick does). But I believe that in the end, when Fed is retired and his true specs are revealed, everyone will ultimately see what I'm talking about.

AlpineCadet 10-10-2006 11:46 PM

As quoted on Roger Federer's website, his rackets have different amounts of lead weights fixed inside, depending upon which surface he's playing on. So who's to say there isn't lead added to his handle, or anywhere else for that matter?

Do you even know how much his racket actually weighs? :confused:

The reality is his racket suits him best. (Hmm, just because a pro bowler uses a 16lbs ball doesn't mean I'm going to go out and get the exact same weight and finger tip size and layout as him.)

hoosierbr 10-11-2006 12:47 AM

This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth but I don't think Federer's actual specs are very relevant to most of us rec players. Many folks tried to set their racquets up just like Sampras did and found, big surprise, that it was way too demanding for them day in and day out. I would imagine that given Federer's headsize is either 88 or 90 if you add the static weight and swingweight, whatever it is, it would be pretty unplayable for most of us. So, in the end, what does it really matter?

As most pros use paintjobbed racquets anyway the idea of playing an exact copy of a pro's stick is pretty difficult to achieve.

deluxe 10-11-2006 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travlerajm
If you study Federer's strokes carefully, and the way the ball responds off his strings, it becomes apparent that his swingweight is much higher than the 330 that Mr. Raven measured.

I don't believe you can tell the swingweight of a racquet by watching the way the ball responds off his strings.

AlpineCadet 10-11-2006 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe
I don't believe you can tell the swingweight of a racquet by watching the way the ball responds off his strings.

I'm sure travlerajm knows that what he says is open for interpretation, so I'm sure he figures he can say things like that.

Ripper 10-11-2006 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travlerajm
I believe that Greg Raven's racquet is authentic. However, I also believe that the specs of the racquet in Mr. Raven's possession are very different than the specs of the racquet Federer actually uses on the court. Specifically, I believe that Federer has roughly 12g of lead stashed under his bumper, and that the lead was removed before it was given away. The extra lead would bump his swingweight up by 30 or 40 kg-cm^2.

Then, what Raven needs to do is check, very closely, for evidence that lead tape had been placed there; adhesive residue, paint peeling, etc.

Swissv2 10-11-2006 08:08 AM

Greg had pictures of those pieces of lead. But what is not able to be shown is the lead inside the frame, unless one breaks the racquet open to find out.

Ripper 10-11-2006 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swissv2
But what is not able to be shown is the lead inside the frame, unless one breaks the racquet open to find out.

Lead inside the frame? Silicone, in any case. However, the issue here is not why the raquet is so heavy, but quite the contrary, why is it so light.

jackson vile 10-11-2006 08:20 AM

IMO the Roger setup does not have a swing weight same as other pros.

I do believe that Roger's SW (depending on surface) is 330-340 and no more

The extra spin Roger gets is from #1 technique #2 String setup (and this plays a large part) #3 The weighting and low SW.

Roger does not have a very high average first serve, and is very rare that he gets up into the 30's


Finaly if Roger had a SW that was that high he would not be able to make the defensive shots that he does and is know for and turning them into offensive shots.

My racket handles more solidly than any other racket I have ever used, especialy at the net no matter how hard it is hit or how much spin, it just eats it up. I have tried 15 different players rackets many of which aren't made any more, nothing is like PS setup.

I used to be a live by the prestige die by the prestige kinda guy, but I can't lie to myself, the PS setup is just plain superior for this style of play, not all but yes this style.

BreakPoint 10-11-2006 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper
Then, what Raven needs to do is check, very closely, for evidence that lead tape had been placed there; adhesive residue, paint peeling, etc.

I believe what Greg Raven has is a racquet that was made by Wilson for Federer but that Federer never actually played with the racquet. It was sent directly from Wilson to the USRSA. I don't think Federer ever touched it. Thus, it was likely never customized to exactly what Federer plays with in his matches.

SFrazeur 10-11-2006 02:27 PM

Does anyone know the date of Roger's answer? (...his rackets have different amounts of lead weights fixed inside, depending upon which surface he's playing on.) If I recall correctly, when he used the PS Tour 90 he had lead on the inside throat. Could this be what is referred to, his set up on the PS Tour 90?

jackson vile 10-11-2006 02:27 PM

Has any stringer ever weighted and measured his racket? After reading about Greg's James Blake racket and Richie's James Blake racket it sounds that limited edt rackets are sold that aren't used by said player and there fore never weighted up like that.

IMO you only know exactly what is what when either A) you string it and weight it youself and see said player playing with that racket or B) you recover broken racket from trash lol


I would like to hear theories of how Rogers racket is setup, I am totally open minded, with this new information it has really opend my eyes

AlpineCadet 10-11-2006 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile
I would like to hear theories of how Rogers racket is setup, I am totally open minded, with this new information it has really opend my eyes

But not everything you read is true. You have to remember to break each statement down, and figure out its reliability and source.

drakulie 10-11-2006 02:34 PM

PS 85. There you go.

jackson vile 10-11-2006 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFrazeur
Does anyone know the date of Roger's answer? (...his rackets have different amounts of lead weights fixed inside, depending upon which surface he's playing on.) If I recall correctly, when he used the PS Tour 90 he had lead on the inside throat. Could this be what is referred to, his set up on the PS Tour 90?


I did that with my racket and it made it more stable for ground strokes but made serves more difficult and less feel

Kevo 10-11-2006 02:46 PM

All of this speculation on Roger's exact setup is fun and all, but until anyone has any real evidence it seems like wasted typing to me. Eventually Roger is going to get old and some young guy is going to start beating him and take over his number 1 spot. Then everyone's going to be talking about that new guys racquet. I can pretty much guarantee he won't be playing with the setup that Roger uses. Then this thread has to start all over again. :-P

SFrazeur 10-11-2006 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevo
All of this speculation on Roger's exact setup is fun and all, but until anyone has any real evidence it seems like wasted typing to me. Eventually Roger is going to get old and some young guy is going to start beating him and take over his number 1 spot. Then everyone's going to be talking about that new guys racquet. I can pretty much guarantee he won't be playing with the setup that Roger uses. Then this thread has to start all over again. :-P

You donít have to participate, you know. I have never found a good discussion to be a waste.

jackson vile 10-11-2006 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevo
All of this speculation on Roger's exact setup is fun and all, but until anyone has any real evidence it seems like wasted typing to me. Eventually Roger is going to get old and some young guy is going to start beating him and take over his number 1 spot. Then everyone's going to be talking about that new guys racquet. I can pretty much guarantee he won't be playing with the setup that Roger uses. Then this thread has to start all over again. :-P


as usual you are missing the point, we discuse other peoples rackets as well.

In general pro players have different setups for a reason however they all have something in comon

This is for fun and nothing else, and has nothing to do with what you are saying, but thanks anways

jackson vile 10-11-2006 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineCadet
But not everything you read is true. You have to remember to break each statement down, and figure out its reliability and source.


Yea no S***, like I said it is interesting and lets hear some ideas and theories, especially in the presence of the new informations.

AlpineCadet 10-11-2006 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson vile
Yea no S***, like I said it is interesting and lets hear some ideas and theories, especially in the presence of the new informations.

You're just too polite. You're making me blush. :rolleyes:


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