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-   -   self-rating (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=105892)

raiden031 11-16-2006 12:28 PM

self-rating
 
I just joined USTA and was trying to self-rate, but it wouldn't let me do it since I am not a player of a league yet.

Their policy states you cannot self-rate for entering tournaments, only for leagues. So how can you play in an NTRP tournament if you aren't allowed to self-rate? Does that mean you have to play in a league before you can play in a tournament?

DANMAN 11-16-2006 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiden031 (Post 1068801)
I just joined USTA and was trying to self-rate, but it wouldn't let me do it since I am not a player of a league yet.

Their policy states you cannot self-rate for entering tournaments, only for leagues. So how can you play in an NTRP tournament if you aren't allowed to self-rate? Does that mean you have to play in a league before you can play in a tournament?


Just sign up for the tournament at the level you think is appropriate. You will not select a rating at that time.

raiden031 11-16-2006 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANMAN (Post 1068890)
Just sign up for the tournament at the level you think is appropriate. You will not select a rating at that time.

So does tournament play affect your rating, or only league play? If not, then does that mean I could play a tournament for ratings lower than what I am rated?

rrhstennis 11-16-2006 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiden031 (Post 1068946)
So does tournament play affect your rating, or only league play? If not, then does that mean I could play a tournament for ratings lower than what I am rated?

Yes, that's exactly what it means and results in a lot of what they call sandbagging.. a player playing far below his level but blowing away clutch points to win matches closely when in reality he could win 6-2 6-1 or something like that there.

What I'm not sure on is when you'll no longer be eligible. I think if you have a winning record at a 3.0 level tournament, you'll be bumped up to 3.5 at the end of the year, or something like that, and you'll have to enter at least 3.5's. But if you are a sandbagging 4.5 who makes yourself look like crap when you could bagel the opponent easily, you can win a lot of stuff before you get bumped up.

Please know that I'm not the person to ask on this, it's just that since I saw this post and I know there aren't many replies in here yet I thought I'd throw you what I know. Hopefully somebody else can help better.

goober 11-16-2006 02:48 PM

Yes just join a level that you think you are and see how you do. I would play at least 2-3 tournaments at the same level before you decide that you are not at that level-unless you are winning very easily or losing very badly for every match. I know one guy who played juniors and turned 19. He didn't know what to rate so he played opens. He got smoked 3 tourneys in a row so he dropped to 3.5. He won two tournaments in a row and some 3.5 regulars were complaining pretty loudly to the tourney director that he was sandbagging. He then moved to 4.0 and kind of settled there.

At the end of the year you will get a rating or at least that is what happened to me.

cak 11-16-2006 05:29 PM

I'm fairly sure if you already have a rating you can't play down. But if you don't have a rating you can just sign up for any level at a tournament.

Caswell 11-16-2006 05:54 PM

You can play in NTRP tournaments without an NTRP rating, which is what you'll have to do if you can't self rate. It's not uncommon - about half of the guys I've played in tournaments at the 3.5 level show up in TennisLink as "Not Rated".

There are no dynamic disqualification rules in tournament play and the early start ratings are based solely on league play, so assuming you don't join a league you won't be assigned a computer rating until the end of the year.

All of the NTRP silliness (DQ's, early start ratings, etc) you read about on the forums has to do with league play. If all you do is play tournaments the only time your NTRP rating will change is at the end of the year.

raiden031 11-17-2006 07:27 AM

So hypothetically lets say I do end up joining a 3.0 league and self-rate at 3.0. Lets say I'm playing singles and I win every match like 6-1, 6-2 or something like that. At some point my computer rating can dynamically change to 3.5 and I am DQed? So if that happened, would I show up at 3.5 or 3.0 if someone did a "Find a Rating" on my name?

Do the "end of the year" ratings ever apply to league play?

cak 11-17-2006 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiden031 (Post 1070459)
So hypothetically lets say I do end up joining a 3.0 league and self-rate at 3.0. Lets say I'm playing singles and I win every match like 6-1, 6-2 or something like that. At some point my computer rating can dynamically change to 3.5 and I am DQed? So if that happened, would I show up at 3.5 or 3.0 if someone did a "Find a Rating" on my name?

Do the "end of the year" ratings ever apply to league play?

When you self rate you show up as a 3.0s. If you get three strikes, by winning lots of matches by 6-1, 6-2 or something* you will be DQed, and in some sections all the matches you played will be defaulted to your opponent.
In Tennislink you will then show up as a 3.5. In our local NorCal database (I don't remember where you are from...) you would show up on the team as 3.0/3.5, with red coloring over all your matches.:-)

The end of the year ratings apply to league play right up until you improve enough to exceed your rating by (I believe) .3, then you start getting strikes, even if your rating is a computer rating. This occasionally nails the people who improve a ton. This often nails people who self rated two levels or more low, which happens, or people who self rated and played only a few matches the year before. This seldom hits people who play 10 or more matches a year, as they have accumulated a large amount of data and are more likely be rated correctly.

*Note, if you are playing against high 3.0s it doesn't even have to be that big of a spread. The strikes happen if your DNTRP goes over, I believe 3.3, three times. It is not uncommon for high 3.0s to have DNTRPs of 3.2 about half way through a season. They are, of course, bumped the next year, but they won't be DQ'd on strikes. However, in playoffs teams tend to play their better players, who are often already somewhat over their ratings by the time playoffs roll around. So it is not all that uncommon for folks to get their third strike during playoffs. In our region, if that happens, only the playoff games are defaulted.

maverick1 11-17-2006 10:00 AM

I played tournaments and the league in the Middestates section this year.

You can't self-rate until you have a team.

You don't need a rating to play in tournments. If you do have a rating(self or otherwise), you are not allowed to register for tournments below that level.

The standard of play is higher in leagues than in tournaments. In the league, only top few guys in the team play singles usually. In 4.0 tournaments, you see a lot of 3.5s and even 3.0s playing.
Someone with a .500 record in the 3.5 league could win a 3.5 tournament.

Caswell 11-17-2006 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiden031 (Post 1070459)
Do the "end of the year" ratings ever apply to league play?

Absolutely.

If you beat people bad enough to get the aforementioned "strikes" against you in league play, you can be bumped up during the course of the league season.

That doesn't happen in tournament play. For example, the guy that's leading the Florida section in 3.5 tournament standings has own most of his matches with scores like 6-0, 6-1. He's got literally dozens of scores like that, with one loss this year. He won't get bumped up until the end of the year though, because we're talking about tournament results. If those were league results, he would have been bumped up long ago.


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