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-   -   Grips the Pros use (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=1075)

GregoryB 03-09-2004 12:06 AM

Grips the Pros use
 
could you guys name the pro players that use semi western grip and which ones western and which ones in between.

hewitt agassi use semi
spaniards us western

Fat Boy 03-09-2004 04:32 AM

Most all current pro's use a variant of semi western (the thumb along the top horizontal face of the handle) as their standard grip. Hewitt in fact uses an "extreme" semi western, as against Henman and Agassi who use a milder version.

I don't think that anyone uses full western (thumb up the back vertical face). Berasategui used to.

Pro's do of course have the ability to change their grips from stroke to stroke - ie bit more western when playing from behind the baseline, to more eastern when stepping up to hit a flat winner.

PureCarlosMoyaDrive 03-09-2004 07:43 PM

Robredo has the Berasategui grip. Pros use western grips, a lot of them, but a lot use inbetween semi and western.

Fat Boy 03-09-2004 10:57 PM

I think you're wrong PMCD.

There is no way that any pro uses a full western grip - it's much too restrictive coz you just can't play low balls on your forehand. All of your opponents would kill you by slicing out wide to it.

But if you can put up a picture of Robredo playing a shot with his thumb up the back of the handle, well, hey, I may just have myself another donut...

Brent Pederson 03-10-2004 07:41 AM

I used to use an extreme western grip forehand and low slices were no problem because, guess what? The full western is actually the same an an extreme continental/backhand grip when you turn the wrist the other way. So, walla, just flip the wrist, and slice that lowball right back! Likewise, one-handed backhands are a breeze, just flip the racket over, hit the ball with the same side of the racket as the forehand!

NoBadMojo 03-10-2004 03:38 PM

i think if you ask many of the pros which grip they use, they wouldnt even know. they have found what works best for them....and most of them use more than one grip for the forehand depending on the situation and what type of shot they are trying to hit. ditto for the bh. personally, i am happy to be an old schooler and i learned to hit everything w. a continental grip.,and sure, you could even hit a topspin forehand that way. you are more likely to have more variety in your game and be more of an allcourter and that makes for more fun tennis..i now use a number of grips. i've recently seen teaching pros w. a western grip that cant even properly feed balls w. their westerns or even demonstrate a volley properly let alone hit one properly. when i became a teaching pro it wasnt just a plunk your money down thing and be a teaching pro. you had to be able to do everything..had to posess both a two handed and one handed backhand and most certainly be able to volley properly. this post is a bit off theme...sorry for the rant. Ed

PureCarlosMoyaDrive 03-10-2004 05:55 PM

Fat Boy, here's the problem. You and I probably have completely different ideas of what a full western is. You do it by thumb, but I was taught by John Yandell based on base knuckle index finger and the heel pad of your hand. That still confuses me though, and my other way is by where the index and thumb meet, and by what bevel that rests on. Now Yandell told me that Robredo uses the same grip as Berasategui and Bruguera used, and he showed it to me, and I was my definition and his of a full western. I can hit with that full western, even take low balls by just going with super spin and arm whip.


Basically, the ultimate problem is the actual definition of what the grips are, and you have to see them in person to fully understand.

Grimjack 03-10-2004 07:11 PM

Finger/thumb lengths, angles, and meeting places can vary from hand to hand. But no matter what your hand is shaped like, the base knuckle of the index finger is still the fulcrum that drives the lever of the racquet. All the geometry of the swing is based upon the position of that knuckle, so it is the only truly accurate measure of which grip is being used.

On a true western, that knuckle is directly underneath the grip, driving it straight upward for max topspin potential. Try it, and see for yourself if any other part of the hand is instrumental in the driving force behind the racquet. Try it in a variety of grips, really FEEL how that part of the hand is the ONLY part that drives the racquet, and you'll soon see why the position of that knuckle is the most logical way to determine grip.

Looking at the thumb position and other such visual tells can be thrown off if a player prefers smaller grips (and the grasping fingers thus go a little further around), or larger (the opposite). But even with off-sized grips, the base knuckle still has to be in position to be the driving force. It is the one constant.

PureCarlosMoyaDrive 03-11-2004 06:04 PM

Well, using Grimjack's base knuckle (which I also believe is the main issue), then the full western is not impossible. in fact, I hit with that grip sometimes. You can really rip the ball with that grip, but can't go flat at all really. Therefore, with me occasionally using it and still being slight successful, then I can easily see a pro using that grip.

Grimjack 03-12-2004 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureCarlosMoyaDrive
Well, using Grimjack's base knuckle (which I also believe is the main issue), then the full western is not impossible. in fact, I hit with that grip sometimes. You can really rip the ball with that grip, but can't go flat at all really. Therefore, with me occasionally using it and still being slight successful, then I can easily see a pro using that grip.

Should probably be noted that there are players who rotate beyond this point, just as there are players who hit with continental grips. These are not as biomechanically sound for the purposes of driving the racquet through the ball, but offset that with other advantages. For some players, there is a need to hit a "western style" FH with what amounts to an upside-down continental grip, which moves that knuckle one more bevel beyond the traditional western. This is either due to unusual arm-wrist geometry necessitating this twist, or else simply because they learned that way young and became proficient with it. Likewise, although the driving force of the hand doesn't get behind the continental as well as with some other grips, it offsets that with amazing versatility.

But that's grips for you, I suppose.

To the original topic, yeah, lots of pros use western FH's, and lots more extreme SW's.

Link to grip comparison of Sampras, Agassi, and Muster (with closeups).

There you can see Muster's western pretty clearly, and specifically how far beyond Agassi's SW it goes.

Swan Song 03-13-2004 07:49 AM

Hello? Does any one remember Jim Courier?


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