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-   -   Another sandbagging thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=108858)

FH2FH 12-11-2006 06:29 AM

Another sandbagging thread
 
I don't regularly post or read in this section of the forum, but I noticed so many of the threads here imply sandbagging is occuring. SOME players may just make an honest mistake or improve very rapidly; others do not unfortunately. The ones who keep moving between levels, appealing every year and throwing matches to play down are sorry pieces of s*&% in my opinion. If you are THAT close to playing up, why not accept the challenge? It's very SAD to me that some people are SO INSECURE that they make the effort to ruin the party for everyone else so they can look good. Give me a f*%%$## break...

The USTA rules are pretty clear about where a player should be rated after taking leave from an advanced level, or for someone who's playing competitively for the first time. A computer SHOULD sort out ONE level differences after one season if no one threw any matches. My first question is: Why do you folks who can obviously play competitively at a higher level prefer to lose so you can WIN at a lower level? Do you have amnesia? What's the point? Is you ego so fragile that winning is your only goal? ...your only purpose for playing tennis? Why don't you just play adolescents who have never touched a racquet instead? You folks are a bunch of p'sies in my opinion and should just give up the game.

I nearly lost to a guy this weekend who I know (unfortunately) and know he only cares about "goin' to state" every year. His doubles partner has the same approach. Yes, these guys are old, and probably realize their games will never go any further; so why do they keep playing? To nurture a fragile ego? I got the same thing before the match. "Oh, take it easy on me. I'm an old man." WTF ever!! The little mind games begin. I won't go into the details of the match, but let's just say I no longer consider him a friend. It's hustling, plain and simple.

It's people like this who give me the motivation to improve. I have the courage (and I'm older myself by the way) to try to improve my game and lose some matches to know where I stand. You can see by my rating I'm a modest person, unlike many of the egoists here (99% 5.0+ right? haha). I'm probably closer to 4.0 now after playing two and a half years than 3.5 and I will accept that if/when I get moved up. I take pride in knowing that my game is getting better and that I don't have to beat up players weaker than myself all the time to have any confidence or purpose on the court. So congrats to those of you who are brave and do your best. Without you, everyone else would self rate 2.5 after taking two days of "sick leave" from work, etc. Jerks.

tennisguy2121 12-11-2006 06:41 AM

im with you on the whole sandbaggin thing. It is ridiculous. It seems like 75% of the people in my town do it, and I dont see why. I am a 4.5, and if I were bumped up to a 5.0, i would love that, and even if I didnt get bumped up and I thought I could play with the 5.0s, I would do it in a heartbeat. I want to make sure i am challenged, and try to get better. If you arent trying to be the best player you can be, I think you should quit.
oh and i actually laughed about your 99% of people on here are 5.0's comment. :)

Z-Man 12-15-2006 07:29 AM

I have also been annoyed by sandbaggers--5.5 players playing 4.0 singles at the state tournament.

HOWEVER, I'm sorry to tell you that I'm contemplating throwing a match and sandbagging a little myself. Here's the situation: When I was bumped up to 4.5, it ended my league tennis career. There are no 4.5 teams around here, so if I want to play, I better protect that 4.0 ranking. Sandbagging sucks, but it's better than not playing at all.

The system works great at the lower levels, but when you bump into the ceiling, you have to throw a match, or you'll be sitting at home every Saturday while all of your friends are playing their league matches. The worst feeling is when Saturday morning is the only time all week you can play, and all of the people you want to play with have a league match.

If the world's #1 player was automatically banned from tennis for life, would Roger Federer want to be #1, or would he throw a match here and there so he could keep playing?

sureshs 12-15-2006 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z-Man (Post 1118483)
I have also been annoyed by sandbaggers--5.5 players playing 4.0 singles at the state tournament.

HOWEVER, I'm sorry to tell you that I'm contemplating throwing a match and sandbagging a little myself. Here's the situation: When I was bumped up to 4.5, it ended my league tennis career. There are no 4.5 teams around here, so if I want to play, I better protect that 4.0 ranking. Sandbagging sucks, but it's better than not playing at all.

The system works great at the lower levels, but when you bump into the ceiling, you have to throw a match, or you'll be sitting at home every Saturday while all of your friends are playing their league matches. The worst feeling is when Saturday morning is the only time all week you can play, and all of the people you want to play with have a league match.

If the world's #1 player was automatically banned from tennis for life, would Roger Federer want to be #1, or would he throw a match here and there so he could keep playing?

Sorry, but for each match you play by sandbagging, you are preventing some legitimate guy from playing.

Z-Man 12-15-2006 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 1118602)
Sorry, but for each match you play by sandbagging, you are preventing some legitimate guy from playing.

But not if the team would have to default the match anyway and not if I throw a match in a tournament. Sometimes playing is more important than winning...

BiGGieStuFF 12-15-2006 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z-Man (Post 1118483)
I have also been annoyed by sandbaggers--5.5 players playing 4.0 singles at the state tournament.

HOWEVER, I'm sorry to tell you that I'm contemplating throwing a match and sandbagging a little myself. Here's the situation: When I was bumped up to 4.5, it ended my league tennis career. There are no 4.5 teams around here, so if I want to play, I better protect that 4.0 ranking. Sandbagging sucks, but it's better than not playing at all.

The system works great at the lower levels, but when you bump into the ceiling, you have to throw a match, or you'll be sitting at home every Saturday while all of your friends are playing their league matches. The worst feeling is when Saturday morning is the only time all week you can play, and all of the people you want to play with have a league match.

If the world's #1 player was automatically banned from tennis for life, would Roger Federer want to be #1, or would he throw a match here and there so he could keep playing?

In your situation I could understand. I mean what are you supposed to do? Quit playing tennis? I don't think i could deal with that.

Ronaldo 12-15-2006 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z-Man (Post 1118629)
But not if the team would have to default the match anyway and not if I throw a match in a tournament. Sometimes playing is more important than winning...

Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, eh? Feel your pain

FH2FH 12-15-2006 10:15 AM

I think the situation here is similar, few 4.5's and no competetive 5.0 leagues. In your case, I would probably do the same thing.

Swissv2 12-15-2006 11:15 AM

Mind games are the first thing in an old man's arsenal to win the game.

@ce 12-17-2006 03:08 PM

So check this out. My 10yr old son, who just began playing tournaments late last year, was playing in the rookie division (we have rookies, challenger and Champs in the PNW). In January, I entered him in a Challenger tournament because there weren't that many rookie tournaments. He lost the first round and lost his consolation match. Later that month I entered him in another Rookie tournament and the draws are made and he plays on a Friday. Thursday night I check the draws and the tournament director moved him from Rookie to Challenger and when I called and asked what was up they told me someone had complained that my son and several others kids had played in a Challenger tournament earlier in the month and because of that they had to play Challengers for the rest of the year. Sure enough, my bad, I didn't see that rule. So, I contacted the PNW USTA and they confirmed that. I then began playing him in Challengers for the rest of the year and guess what, in several tournaments he has run into players that have played and are ranked in the Champ division. The tournaments aren't doing anything about that and the PNW won't even respond to my emails. And the same tournament that moved my son up, says that they can't enforce the rules. WHAT!!??? They enforced them when they forced my son to move up, but now they can't enforce it when they have sandbagging Champ players coming down and winning tournaments at the Challenger level. Our local USTA office is a JOKE! They talk out both ends and the players and parents of the players who are allowing their kids to play down should be reprimanded.

Dashbarr 12-17-2006 04:00 PM

sand bagging is fairly prevalent, but to the person who said 75%, thats a total exaggeration. plus, Z-Man's reason is perfectly acceptable to me, because i would get mad if i was hindered by a good rating. why people do this blatantly to win, and decide to completely lose any honesty they had, is a mystery to me, but it really doesnt happen as often as you make it seem.

johnkidd 12-17-2006 05:57 PM

I'll give Z-Man a pass on this as well. A few years ago when I started playing again after really not playing for a couple years I went to the rating clinic and aske to be rated 4.0 because the 4.0 team where I lived at the time asked me to play for them. I was borderline 4.0-4.5. I played for them for two year. Moved and played 4.0. Eventually I was playing enough and well enough I got rated up to 4.5 by the computer. If I didn't have the option to play up I would probably drop a match here or there.

Ronaldo 12-17-2006 06:34 PM

Experienced this Machiavellian baloney on my own team. Number One dbls team decides or claims to lose a challenge match before playoffs to avoid playing in the top spot. Obviously we were naive enough to want to be the best team and represent, eh?

TriCitiesTennis 12-18-2006 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z-Man (Post 1118483)
I have also been annoyed by sandbaggers--5.5 players playing 4.0 singles at the state tournament.

HOWEVER, I'm sorry to tell you that I'm contemplating throwing a match and sandbagging a little myself. Here's the situation: When I was bumped up to 4.5, it ended my league tennis career. There are no 4.5 teams around here, so if I want to play, I better protect that 4.0 ranking. Sandbagging sucks, but it's better than not playing at all.

The system works great at the lower levels, but when you bump into the ceiling, you have to throw a match, or you'll be sitting at home every Saturday while all of your friends are playing their league matches. The worst feeling is when Saturday morning is the only time all week you can play, and all of the people you want to play with have a league match.

If the world's #1 player was automatically banned from tennis for life, would Roger Federer want to be #1, or would he throw a match here and there so he could keep playing?


Based on this information, you should be able to file an appeal. If they bump you to a level where you can no longer play locally, I think you can easily appeal and win.

Ronaldo 12-18-2006 06:44 PM

Load up a team with the best 4.5 players, ask 4.0 players to field two other 4.5 teams, have a tourney, WIN, go straight to the state playoffs.

marcl65 01-16-2007 09:05 AM

Sandbagged
 
I played my first sandbagger in an official USTA league match. My partner and I got creamed of course. This guy moved and hit like no 3.0 player Iíve ever come across and there were a couple of people from the 3.5 team that were watching that felt he was at least a mid 3.5 player. I checked him out online and heís self-rated (big surprise).

Iím somewhat ambivalent about the whole thing. Part of me is irritated just at the fact that this guy, and his club, are kind of unleveling the playing field. The other part of me is kind of like, ďSo what?Ē Realistically, Iíd expect to see players that are just about to advance to the next level anyway. And itís not like this guy is playing down 2 levels Ė itís one at most. Still, I alternate between being irritated and berating myself for being irritated.

Oh well, it is what it is.

WFrame9109 01-16-2007 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FH2FH
Why do you folks who can obviously play competitively at a higher level prefer to lose so you can WIN at a lower level? Do you have amnesia? What's the point? Is you ego so fragile that winning is your only goal? ...your only purpose for playing tennis? Why don't you just play adolescents who have never touched a racquet instead? You folks are a bunch of p'sies in my opinion and should just give up the game.

Mildly amusing post. Personally, while I find things like this more amusing than annoying, I would put you on the same page as them... But hey. That's me.

I can name another reason someone might do it...

Let's say your getting older... You're a strong player, but you keep going up against college players and the like, and injuries are happening more often. Would you risk your health, and play where you belong, or try to move down a ranking; perhaps playing slightly less equal players, but avoiding the impending risk of a tennis destroying injury?

While I haven't experienced this myself (as a young player), I have seen it happen several times, and I see nothing wrong with it.

Of course, I know nothing of the ranking system, so perhaps I'm missing something.

marcl65 01-16-2007 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFrame9109 (Post 1175020)
Let's say your getting older... You're a strong player, but you keep going up against college players and the like, and injuries are happening more often. Would you risk your health, and play where you belong, or try to move down a ranking; perhaps playing slightly less equal players, but avoiding the impending risk of a tennis destroying injury?

I donít think the OP is addressing those playing ďslightly less equal playersĒ but rather those intentionally playing at a level where they can easily win.

Example: I have a hard time playing with people at the 2.5 and lower level. Sure I can beat them but itís not much fun. I know people that have had their ranking dropped (e.g. 4.0 to 3.5, 3.5 to 3.0) but still play at their original level because they enjoy the challenge.

And if youíre trying to prevent an injury, switch to doubles. I play with a bunch of people that refuse to play singles because itís too hard on their body. They still get the challenge of playing at their level without putting the singles demands on their body.

WFrame9109 01-16-2007 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcl65 (Post 1175065)
And if youíre trying to prevent an injury, switch to doubles. I play with a bunch of people that refuse to play singles because itís too hard on their body. They still get the challenge of playing at their level without putting the singles demands on their body.

Not myself (I'm 23 and would rather play the best I could find, provided they aren't cocky or rude about it :p) but the fellows I'm referring to actually play both. I suppose they could cut down on it, but I doubt it will happen. Fanatics!

BiGGieStuFF 01-16-2007 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFrame9109 (Post 1175106)
Not myself (I'm 23 and would rather play the best I could find, provided they aren't cocky or rude about it :p) but the fellows I'm referring to actually play both. I suppose they could cut down on it, but I doubt it will happen. Fanatics!

Keyword OR number is that you're ONLY 23. You're in your prime so of course you'll want to play singles because your body hasn't begun to break down yet. Talk to us when you've reached the next decade at least :)


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