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federerfanatic 04-14-2007 05:47 PM

Understanding just how unbelievable Navratilova really was at her peak in 83-84!
 
It seems there is some complete ignorance by some people to just how almost completely untouchable, scary to oppose, and just plain incredible Navratilova was at her absolute peak in 1983-1984. Particularly by a certain Graf loving troll who seems to think she was merely a good player romping through a clown era, who Graf would have mysteriously been able to just brush aside, when Graf could hardly ever beat her in straight sets past age 30. I thought I would like to share this excerpt from a book on Martina and Chris that really entails just how incredible Martina truly was at her absolute peak:


Quote:

Navratilova and Evert were ranked number one and two in the world and meeti only on Sundays now, for title. The gap between them and the rest of the tour had become so pronounced, even Pam Shriver, a perennial top five player, spoke with poignant resignation about the "hopeless feeling of chasing two opponents you never, ever draw closer to."

"That's what Chris and Martini do to the rest of us, those of us who never fulfill expectation and who begin to doubt that we ever will," Shriver said. "I
try to say that the other players aren't that far behind, when, in fact-at least
at the majors-we're light-years behind. No one likes to admit she doesnt have a serious chance."

Evert was about to find out what that despair felt like.

By the summer of 1983 the results between her and Navratilova had taken on a numbing sameness. Only the datelines changed from week to week:

Dallas, March 7-Martina Navratilova defeated archrival Chris Evert on Sunday in the final of the $150, 000 Virgina Slams of Dallas, 6-4, 6-0. "I don't think she's ever played better," Evert said.

New York, March 23-At the Virgina Slims Championships in New York City last week, Martina Navratilova demonstrated a talent as well rounded as splendid.
She bludgeoned opponents with her serve, outdueled them from the baseline
and teased them with drop shots and lobs. Even Chris Evert could do little to slow down Navratilova....The look in Evert's eyes(before the match)seemed to say, "If I dont make it back, tell Mom and Dad I love them." Little more than an hour later, Navratilova had swept 10 straight games en route to a 6-2, 6-0 win.

The loss was Evert's most lopsided in 950 singles matches on tour, spanning 13 years. Since the start of 1982, Navratilova had won 114 of 117 matches. "She really cleaned my clock today" said Evert. "That was one of her better matches, I hope."

Los Angeles, August 7-Martina Navratilova captured her seventh win in her last eight matches against Chris Evert yesterday with a 6-1, 6-3 rout in the finals of the Virginia Slims of Los Angeles. "We've played three times in a year," Evert said, "and I haven't won a set."

Navratilova, true to her boast, had ascended to the point where she lost only if she beat herself. She seemed invincible.

CEvertFan 04-14-2007 05:54 PM

Very true. Martina at that time was untouchable even by Evert. Martina did force Evert to get better though, making her finally go to the gym and change from wood to graphite.

federerfanatic 04-14-2007 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEvertFan (Post 1378980)
Very true. Martina at that time was untouchable even by Evert. Martina did force Evert to get better though, making her finally go to the gym and change from wood to graphite.

You are right. Evert really showed the determination, resiliency, and competitive spirit of a champion around this point, taking her own game and fitness to a completely new level to compete with what seemed like the inhuman heights attained by Navratilova. She even had to transform her style of play to some degree. It would have been easy to quit, and many were even telling her to at the time, but instead she did everything she could to challenge Navratilova again.

CEvertFan 04-14-2007 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by federerfanatic (Post 1379001)
You are right. Evert really showed the determination, resiliency, and competitive spirit of a champion around this point, taking her own game and fitness to a completely new level to compete with what seemed like the inhuman heights attained by Navratilova. She even had to transform her style of play to some degree. It would have been easy to quit, and many were even telling her to at the time, but instead she did everything she could to challenge Navratilova again.

I couldn't have said it better myself. ;) Evert was a class act all the way. I miss watching her and Martina play.

federerfanatic 04-14-2007 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEvertFan (Post 1379016)
I couldn't have said it better myself. ;) Evert was a class act all the way. I miss watching her and Martina play.

You definitely are not the only ones who miss them. Two players like that pushing each other to greater heights for so many years, mantaining a knawing drive and hunger to win vs the other each time they step onto a court, but still doing it with class and style, does not come around very often.

backhander 04-14-2007 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by federerfanatic (Post 1379048)
You definitely are not the only ones who miss them. Two players like that pushing each other to greater heights for so many years, mantaining a knawing drive and hunger to win vs the other each time they step onto a court, but still doing it with class and style, does not come around very often.

I wasn't watching tennis at around this time, didn't really get into tennis till around 89, but how did Evert do after changing her game and fitness to compete against Navratilova. One thing about Navratilova is that I didn't really like her in the early 90's, but now I seem to be rooting for her when i do get a chance to see her play. Her netplay is awesome.

CEvertFan 04-14-2007 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backhander (Post 1379218)
I wasn't watching tennis at around this time, didn't really get into tennis till around 89, but how did Evert do after changing her game and fitness to compete against Navratilova. One thing about Navratilova is that I didn't really like her in the early 90's, but now I seem to be rooting for her when i do get a chance to see her play. Her netplay is awesome.


Here's a quote from chrisevert.net a great Evert site:

Martina completely dominated women’s tennis from 1983 through 1984, handing Chris a daunting 2-year draught in their head-to-head meetings, with Martina winning 13 consecutive matches. Evert had beaten Martina in 15 of 17 matches between the Spring of 1975 and the end of 77, but losing in that manner was completely alien to Chris. However, 13 did prove to be the unluckiest of numbers, even for one of Navratilova’s stature, as Chris was to break the chain of losses in their next meeting.

After a near-win in the 84 US Open final against Navratilova 4-6 6-4 6-4, the 13th consecutive loss, the two rivals played in an exhibition match in the US, and Chris charged net at every opportunity, beating Martina convincingly, 6-2 6-4. As the 1984 season closed, with the Australian Open, Evert won her 1000th career match, the first player ever to do so, and then won the title, furthering her string of consecutive years winning a Grand Slam event to 11; a string that would reach a record 13. (Perhaps 13 is a number that always plays the role of streak-ender!)

In any case, it all represented a change in fortune for Evert. She next met Martina again in January 1985 at a tournament in Key Biscayne, and this time it was not an exhibition, but for the record: she won again in a 6-2 6-4 repeat of her earlier victory. Then, four months later, in June, Chris took her second Grand Slam in a row, again beating Martina in one of the most dramatic and well-played matches in women’s tennis history, winning the French Open 6-3 6-7 7-5.
This victory tied Chris for the all-time record for victories at the French (She broke the record the following year, beating Martina again 2-6 6-3 6-3 in another long, dramatic final for her 7th French crown), but in addition, Chris regained the world’s number one ranking back from Navratilova.

“Many people missed what that match meant. It wasn’t just that Chris had beaten Martina again or had won another Grand Slam,” tennis analyst and coach Andy Brandi was to say at the time, “It was so much more than that: The Queen was back on the Throne. There wasn’t a dry eye in the place.”

Indeed, that was the romance of it, and Chris would hold the ranking until the final month of the year. It would be her final stay at the top, at age 31. But the Throne was forever hers. Adding honor to achievement in 1985, the Women’s Sports Foundation named Evert the Greatest Woman Athlete of the Last 25 Years.

Condoleezza 04-14-2007 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by federerfanatic (Post 1378953)
It seems there is some complete ignorance by some people to just how almost completely untouchable, scary to oppose, and just plain incredible Navratilova was at her absolute peak in 1983-1984. ....

The opposition in those years was an absolute joke.
Let's have a look at whom Navratilova beat in the slams in 1983/84 (she won 6 of 8 ).

FO 83: Lost in 3rd round against Horvath.
Wim 83: beat 3rd seed Jaeger in final.
USO 83: beat 5th seed Shriver and in the final Evert.
AO 83: beat 3rd seed Shriver and in the final 9th seed K. Jordan.
FO 84: beat 4th seed Mandlikova and in the final Evert.
Wim 84: beat 6th seed Jordan and Evert.
USO 84: beat 13th seed Turnbull (31) and Evert.
AO 84: lost to 9th seed Sukova.

Evert was a legit opponent but the rest were absolute clowns.
We don't even talk about Jordan, Jaeger and Turnbull.
Leaves us with Mandlikova and Shriver who were #3 and #4 in the world at that time.

Shriver and Mandlikova were still young (mid-20ies) at the end of the 80ies when they ran into Steffi Graf.

At age 16 Graf played Hana for the first time (in 1986 at Hilton Head) and beat her easily 6-2 6-4. Some weeks later she lost to her in 3 sets at FO 86 while having a severe cold. After that Steffi won against Hana 6-3 6-4 (Amelia Island 1987), 6-4 6-1 (FedCup 1987), 6-2 6-2 (Zurich 1987), 6-2 6-2 (AO 1988 ), 7-6 6-3 (San Antonio 1989), 6-3 6-4 (Amelia Island 1989) and 6-0 6-1 (Mahwah 1989).
So in 1987-89 peak Graf played a 25-27-year-old Hana Mandlikova 7 times.
She won all 7 matches and all 14 sets. The average result was 6-3 6-2.

Steffi had just turned 16 when she played her first match against Shriver at Wimbledon 1985, losing in a tight 3-setter. 2 months later she beat Pam at USO but lost again in Filderstadt. At the beginning of 1986 - still being 16 - she beat Shriver in a 3-setter at the Masters. So they were even (2-2 H2H) but 16-year-old Steffi had overtaken 23-year-old Pam in the rankings in the meanwhile.
Peaking Steffi played Shriver 3 times in slams in 1987/88 with an average result of 6-2 6-2.

So much about Hana and Pam, Navratilova/Evert's main opponents of the mid-80ies ...


Condi

Condoleezza 04-14-2007 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEvertFan (Post 1378980)
Very true. Martina at that time was untouchable even by Evert. Martina did force Evert to get better though, making her finally go to the gym and change from wood to graphite.

So Evert went to the gym after 1983/84, OK (unbelievable that a top player could survive back then without doing that!).
Nevertheless Evert lost to 16-year-old Graf at the beginning of 1986 - and the next 7 matches as well, winning only 1 of 17 sets against the German superstar.

Condi

CEvertFan 04-14-2007 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condoleezza (Post 1379287)
So Evert went to the gym after 1983/84, OK (unbelievable that a top player could survive back then without doing that!).
Nevertheless Evert lost to 16-year-old Graf at the beginning of 1986 - and the next 7 matches as well, winning only 1 of 17 sets against the German superstar.

Condi

1986 was clearly the beginning of the end for Evert who began to be unable to sustain her consistency which had always been one of her greatest strengths.

Here's some stats for her 1986 season, which includes two wins over Graf in straight sets.

1986

Tournament Wins: 6
Match Record: 59-7

* Virginia Slims of Florida (Key Biscayne, FL): 2R def. Petra Huber 6-2, 6-1; 3R def. Carling Bassett 6-1, 6-0; QF def. Stephanie Rehe 6-1, 6-0; SF def. Manuela Maleeva 6-1, 6-0; F def. Steffi Graf 6-3, 6-1

* Lipton International Players Championships (Boca Raton, FL): 1R def. Susan Sloane 6-4, 6-4; 2R def. Marie-Christine Calleja 6-4, 6-0; 3R def. Catherine Suire 7-5, 6-1; 4R def. Kathy Jordan 7-5, 6-2; QF def. Terry Phelps 6-2, 6-0; SF def. Kathy Rinaldi 7-6, 6-1; F def. Steffi Graf 6-4, 6-2


* Virginia Slims of California (Oakland, CA): 2R def. Peanut Louie 6-1, 6-0; QF def. Wendy Turnbull 6-1, 6-3; SF def. Helena Sukova 7-5, 6-4; F def. Kathy Jordan 6-2, 6-4


Virginia Slims of Dallas (Dallas, TX): 2R def. Terry Phelps 6-2, 6-0; 3R def. Bettina Bunge 6-1, 6-4; QF def. Zina Garrison 6-4, 6-3; SF def. Kathy Rinaldi 6-4, 6-2; F lost to Martina Navratilova 6-2, 6-1


Virginia Slims Championships (New York, NY): 1R def. Barbara Potter 6-2, 6-4; QF def. Helena Sukova 1-6, 6-1, 6-1; SF lost to Hana Mandlikova 6-3, 7-5


* Chrysler-Plymouth Tournament of Champions (Marco Island, FL): 2R def. Maria Lindstrom 6-0, 6-0; QF def. Kathy Rinaldi 6-1, 6-3; SF def. Bonnie Gadusek 6-1, 6-1; F def. Claudia Kohde-Kilsch 6-2, 6-4


Family Circle Magazine Cup (Hilton Head, SC): 2R def. Sylvia Hanika 7-6, 6-1; 3R def. Helen Kelesi 6-4, 6-1; QF def. Helena Sukova 6-3, 6-4; SF def. Stephanie Rehe 6-2, 6-1; F lost to Steffi Graf 6-4, 7-5


* Virginia Slims of Houston (Houston, TX): 1R def. Anne Smith 6-0, 6-2; 2R def. Ann Henricksson 6-2, 6-1; QF def. Kate Gompert 6-4, 6-1; SF def. Laura Arraya Gildemeister 6-7, 6-0, 6-0; F def. Kathy Rinaldi 6-4, 2-6, 6-4


* French Open Championships (Paris, France): 1R def. Cecile Calmette 6-0, 6-1; 2R def. Nathalie Herreman 6-2, 6-1; 3R def. Anne Smith 6-3, 6-1; 4R def. Gabriela Sabatini 1-6, 6-3, 6-3; QF def. Carling Bassett 5-7. 6-2, 6-1; SF def. Hana Mandlikova 6-1, 6-1; F def. Martina Navratilova 2-6, 6-3, 6-3


All-England Championships (Wimbledon, England): 1R def. Mary Joe Fernandez 6-4, 6-1; 2R def. Pam Casale 6-0, 5-7, 6-1; 3R def. Kathleen Horvath 6-4, 6-1; 4R def. Kathy Jordan 7-5, 6-2; QF def. Helena Sukova 7-6, 4-6, 6-4; SF lost to Hana Mandlikova 7-6, 7-5


Federation Cup (Prague, Czechoslovakia): 2R def. Maria Llorca, Spain 6-1, 6-0; QF lost to Sandra Cecchini, Italy 3-6, 6-4, 6-3; SF def. Bettina Bunge, West Germany 6-3, 6-4; F def. Helena Sukova 7-5, 7-6. (Evert was not used in the United States’ first round tie against China).


Virginia Slims of Los Angeles (Manhattan Beach, CA): 2R def. Elise Burgin 6-4, 6-2; 3R def. Bettina Bunge 7-6, 6-4; QF def. Manuela Maleeva 3-6, 6-0, 6-0; SF def. Pam Shriver 6-4, 6-4; F lost to Martina Navratilova 7-6, 6-3


United States Open Championships (Flushing, Queens, NY): 1R def. Barbara Gerken 6-2, 6-1; 2R Regina Marsikova 6-0, 6-0; 3R def. Mary Joe Fernandez 6-4, 6-2; 4R def. Catarina Lindqvist 6-2, 2-6, 6-2; QF def. Manuela Maleeva 6-2, 6-2; SF lost to Helena Sukova 6-2, 6-4


Sat out rest of season with chondromalacia patella in her left knee, which had troubled her throughout the spring and summer.


Season Highlights
--Won record 7th French Open title
--Opened the year with three straight tournament victories.

When would Evert have lost to a player like Cecchini in her prime? Never.
A decent year but definitely starting her decline.

SoBad 04-14-2007 09:51 PM

Great thread, would be interesting to see a table of match winning percentage from Graf by year.

CEvertFan 04-15-2007 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoBad (Post 1379478)
Great thread, would be interesting to see a table of match winning percentage from Graf by year.



I am sure Condi can oblige.

Condoleezza 04-15-2007 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEvertFan (Post 1379454)
1986 was clearly the beginning of the end for Evert who began to be unable to sustain her consistency which had always been one of her greatest strengths.

Here's some stats for her 1986 season, which includes two wins over Graf in straight sets.

1986

Tournament Wins: 6
Match Record: 59-7
...

59-7 - that is a 89.4 % winning percentage.

1979 - Winning Percentage: 86.6 %
1980 - Winning Percentage: 90.7 %
1981 - Winning Percentage: 91.8 %
1982 - Winning Percentage: 92.0 %
1983 - Winning Percentage: 86.2 %
1984 - Winning Percentage: 89.3 %
1985 - Winning Percentage: 90.8 %
1979-1985 - Winning Percentage: 89.6 %

So I don't see how Evert was worse in 1986 than in the seven years before that. Yet Graf (16) beat her in April 1986 in 2 sets on clay and never lost another match against Chrissie.

And please don't tell me that Evert of the mid-70ies was a better player than Evert of the 80ies .....


Condi

Condoleezza 04-15-2007 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoBad (Post 1379478)
Great thread, would be interesting to see a table of match winning percentage from Graf by year.

Graf 1986-96


1986. (91% 64-6) Steffi Graf (GER)
1987. (97% 75-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
1988. (96% 72-3) Steffi Graf (GER)
1989. (98% 86-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
1990. (94% 72-5) Steffi Graf (GER)
1991. (89% 65-8 ) Steffi Graf (GER)
1992. (91% 71-7) Steffi Graf (GER)
1993. (93% 76-6) Steffi Graf (GER)
1994. (91% 58-6) Steffi Graf (GER)
1995. (96% 47-2) Steffi Graf (GER)
1996. (93% 54-4) Steffi Graf (GER)


Condi

CEvertFan 04-15-2007 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condoleezza (Post 1380523)
59-7 - that is a 89.4 % winning percentage.

1979 - Winning Percentage: 86.6 %
1980 - Winning Percentage: 90.7 %
1981 - Winning Percentage: 91.8 %
1982 - Winning Percentage: 92.0 %
1983 - Winning Percentage: 86.2 %
1984 - Winning Percentage: 89.3 %
1985 - Winning Percentage: 90.8 %
1979-1985 - Winning Percentage: 89.6 %

So I don't see how Evert was worse in 1986 than in the seven years before that. Yet Graf (16) beat her in April 1986 in 2 sets on clay and never lost another match against Chrissie.

And please don't tell me that Evert of the mid-70ies was a better player than Evert of the 80ies .....


Condi

True but for 1986 Evert's record against Graf was 2-1 in Evert's favor. I am talking about after that.

Let's look at Evert's 1987 shall we?


1987

Tournament Wins: 5
Match Record: 72-13

Virginia Slims of Florida (Boca Raton, FL): 2R def. Elna Reinach 6-4, 6-2; 3R lost to Kate Gompert 3-6, 6-4, 6-2

Lipton International Players Championships (Key Biscayne, FL): 1R def. Jennifer Mundel 6-0, 6-1; 2R def. Akiko Kijimuta 6-1, 6-2; 3R def. Vicki Nelson-Dunbar 6-0, 6-0; 4R def. Stephanie Rehe 6-3, 6-2; QF def. Claudia Kohde-Kilsch 6-2, 7-5; SF def. Hana Mandlikova 7-5, 6-0; F lost to Steffi Graf 6-1, 6-2

* Virginia Slims of Dallas (Dallas, TX): 1R def. Katerina Maleeva 2-6, 6-3, 6-1; 2R def, Carling Bassett 6-0, 6-1; QF def. Stephanie Rehe 6-1, 6-0; SF def. Zina Garrison 3-6, 6-1, 6-0; F def. Pam Shriver 6-1, 6-3


Family Circle Magazine Cup (Hilton Head, SC): 2R def. Petra Huber 7-5, 6-2; 3R def. Debbie Spence 6-3, 6-0; QF def. Bettina Bunge 6-3, 6-2; SF lost to Manuela Maleeva 6-1, 2-6, 7-6

* Virginia Slims of Houston (Houston, TX): 1R def. Nathalie Herreman 6-1, 6-1; 2R def. Mariana Perez-Roldan 6-2, 6-1; QF def. Kate Gompert 6-3, 6-3; SF def. Hana Mandlikova 6-3, 7-5; F def. Martina Navratilova 3-6, 6-1, 7-6


* Eckerd-Florida Federal Open (Tampa, FL): 1R def. Gabriela Dinu 6-2, 6-1; 2R def. Camille Benjamin 6-3, 6-1; QF def. Laura Arraya Gildemeister 6-2, 6-1; SF def. Beverley Bowes 6-0, 6-0; F def. Kate Gompert 6-3, 6-2


* European Open (Geneva, Switzerland): 2R def. Emmanuelle Derly 6-1, 6-4; 3R def. Kate Gompert 6-3, 6-1; QF def. Mary Joe Fernandez 7-6, 6-1; SF def. Lori McNeil 6-0, 6-2; F def. Manuela Maleeva 6-3, 4-6, 6-2


French Open Championships (Paris, France): 1R def. Eva Pfaff 6-1, 6-3; 2R def. Isabelle Demongeot 6-3, 7-5; 3R def. Eva Krapl 6-2, 6-0; 4R def. Katerina Maleeva 6-3, 6-1; QF Raffaella Reggi 6-2, 6-2; SF lost to Martina Navratilova 6-2, 6-2


Pilkington Glass Ladies Championships (Eastbourne, England): 1R def. Sharon Walsh-Pete 6-2, 6-1; 2R def. Lisa Bonder 6-1, 6-1; 3R def. Wendy White 6-3, 6-4; QF def. Larissa Savchenko 6-3, 6-1; SF lost to Helena Sukova 4-6, 6-4, 8-6

All-England Championships (Wimbledon, England): 1R def. Sara Gomer 6-1, 6-0; 2R def. Laura Golarsa 7-5, 6-0; 3R def. Kumiko Okamoto 7-5, 6-0; 4R def. Rosalyn Fairbank 6-2, 2-6, 7-5; QF def. Claudia Kohde-Kilsch 6-1, 6-3; SF lost to Martina Navratilova 6-2, 5-7, 6-4


Federation Cup (Vancouver, British Columbia): 1R def. Etsuko Inoue, Japan 6-2, 6-4; 2R def. Nathalie Tauziat, France 6-1, 6-0; QF def. Jo Durie, Great Britain 6-3, 6-1; SF def. Manuela Maleeva 6-2, 2-6, 6-4; F lost to Steffi Graf, West Germany 6-2, 6-1

Virginia Slims of Los Angeles (Manhattan Beach, CA): 2R def. Robin White 6-0, 7-5; 3R def. Jana Novotna 7-6, 6-3; QF def. Lori McNeil 6-1, 7-5; SF def. Martina Navratilova 6-2, 6-1; F lost to Steffi Graf 6-3, 6-4


Canadian Open Players Championship (Toronto, Ontario): 2R def. Sara Gomer 6-3, 6-2; 3R def. Nathalie Tauziat 6-2, 6-2; QF def. Helen Kelesi 6-2, 6-0; SF lost to Pam Shriver 6-4, 6-1


United States Open Championships (Flushing, Queens, NY): 1R def. Susan Sloane 6-1, 6-0; 2R def. Niege Dias 6-0, 6-1; 3R def. Natalia Zvereva 6-0, 6-2; 4R def. Manuela Maleeva 7-5, 6-4; QF lost to Lori McNeil 3-6, 6-2, 6-4
* Virginia Slims of New Orleans (New Orleans, LA): 1R def. Anne Minter 6-0, 6-1; 2R def. Barbara Gerken 6-4, 6-1; QF def. Anne Smith 6-2, 6-0; SF def. Wendy Turnbull 3-2 ret.; F def. Lori McNeil 6-3, 6-4


Porsche Grand Prix (Filderstadt, West Germany): 1R def. Regina Marsikova 6-2, 7-5; 2R def. Raffaella Reggi 6-4, 6-1; QF def. Mary Joe Fernandez 6-2, 5-7, 6-4; SF def. Pam Shriver 7-5, 6-3; F lost to Martina Navratilova 7-5, 6-1


Virginia Slims of New England (Worcester, MA): 1R def. Michelle Torres 6-3, 6-3; 2R def. Andrea Holikova 6-4, 6-1; QF def. Barbara Potter 1-6, 6-1, 6-3; SF def. Gabriela Sabatini 6-4, 7-6; F lost to Pam Shriver 6-4, 4-6, 6-0
Virginia Slims Championships (New York, NY): 1R lost to Sylvia Hanika 6-4, 6-4


All the matches I highlighted clearly show that by this point Evert was definitely on the decline and that Graf was clearly coming into her prime.

federerfanatic 04-15-2007 12:51 PM

Well to be fair to Manuela Maleeva, she did play Evert 5 times on clay in 1984 when she was definitely in her prime, and beat her in straight sets in the Italian Open final, and while losing the other 4 meetings took Evert to 3 sets in 3 of those 4. So it is not as if a clay court win vs Evert would have been unfathomable to ever happen in Evert's prime. I am not saying I disagree Evert was clearly past her prime in the year 1987 though.

CEvertFan 04-15-2007 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by federerfanatic (Post 1380625)
Well to be fair to Manuela Maleeva, she did play Evert 5 times on clay in 1984 when she was definitely in her prime, and beat her in straight sets in the Italian Open final, and while losing the other 4 meetings took Evert to 3 sets in 3 of those 4. So it is not as if a clay court win vs Evert would have been unfathomable to ever happen in Evert's prime. I am not saying I disagree Evert was clearly past her prime in the year 1987 though.

Manuela was clearly the best of the Maleeva sisters to play by far so I can agree with your point.

federerfanatic 04-15-2007 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEvertFan (Post 1380814)
Manuela was clearly the best of the Maleeva sisters to play by far so I can agree with your point.

Yeah all 3 of them were pretty good players but she clearly had the best and most consistent career of the 3.

Yours!05 04-15-2007 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoBad (Post 1379478)
Great thread, would be interesting to see a table of match winning percentage from Graf by year.

Great post. Carry on.:)

CEvertFan 04-16-2007 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yours!05 (Post 1381293)
Great post. Carry on.:)


We plan to. :D


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