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-   -   Check out these old greats on vid (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=147431)

keithchircop 07-29-2007 12:09 PM

Check out these old greats on vid
 
Laver vs Ashe 1969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdPX9avs1M

Ashe vs Rosewall 1971
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HzPuG5HWGmI

Laver vs Connors 1975
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SptdffCeVmM

Laver vs Borg 1977
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7-VeBIal8TU

Vilas vs Connors 1977
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SWpY6Qe0go0

Ilie Nastase
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSqQXvDIwno

Borg vs Vilas - French Open final 1978:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-MdM908TnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKQVdZNsyuQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4pPc9YesFc (endless rally)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDhqZxbS8Es (endless rally)

A documentary about Borg winning Wimby 5 times in a row (includes highlights from matches against Taylor, Vilas, Nastase, Vitas, Connors, Tanner and Johnny Mac)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VsT_b_cPgAY

morten 07-29-2007 03:21 PM

Wow, this is what tennis should look like, i wish it was still like that, todays game has more power but thats about it, athleticism and shot making is outstanding in those clips, more talent than today and more fun to watch... Vilas was great...

VS_Power 07-29-2007 03:31 PM

Vilas-Connors was great!

thanks for the links Keith!

keithchircop 07-29-2007 03:35 PM

If you like Vilas, be sure to check out this interview:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9A--yZbF_bI
and this video of Vilas in a classroom:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xfi4s8cjLFI

keithchircop 07-30-2007 05:24 AM

Ilie Nastase
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSqQXvDIwno

From Wikipedia:

In his recent book, Năstase claimed that he slept with around 2,500 women. After hearing this, his wife said that she was happy to have conquered such a man.

Among referees and other players, his reputation for gamesmanship resulted in the nickname "Nasty" after several incidents where his temperament got the better of him. For one year, other players scorned him in locker rooms and did not speak to him.

==> Can anyone shed some light on his nasty cheating ways?

urban 07-30-2007 05:44 AM

Nastase was one of the most gifted athletes of all time. Like Borg, his best shot was his body. Was fast like the wind. In tennis terms, he played an artistic allround game like Santana or now Federer. Had all the shots, including the topspin lob. Developed a very hard, underrated serve, especially in his later years. Only weakness was maybe the penetration on the volley, which cost him at least one Wimbledon win. Played and won many , many tournaments, around 80, if you count pre open and open era. Could beat and demolish all top players, including Borg and Connors, whom he owned for most of his career.Under the tutelage of Tiriac, he turned to nasty tricks, often to his own detriment. His nerves were as highly strung as his rackets. Had problems with favorite-status. In 1973, as the only top player, to play Wimbledon, and hottest favorite ever, he lost to Sandy Mayer in round of 16. Playing on his home ground, home clay and before all his relatives as line judges, he gifted the Davis Cup 1972 to the Americans, which made him very unpopular in Bukarest.Was disqualified by referee Horst Klosterkemper in the first round of 1975 Masters vs. Ashe, only to win the tournament vs. Borg 2,2 and 1.

keithchircop 07-30-2007 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urban (Post 1625664)
Under the tutelage of Tiriac, he turned to nasty tricks, often to his own detriment.

what would he do?

urban 07-30-2007 07:29 AM

All things, that can distract an opponent. Stalling, mocking, arguing, screaming, spitting, even throwing sets and matches. Often a bit childish. Once he played a Wim doubles with Connors with a bowler hat or with an umbrella. Sometimes he screamed at line judges and umpires, they should call him Mr. Nastase.At Bournemouth against Panatta, once a match was halted for an hour, due to his antics. At USO he almost got into a fight with German Pohmann, called him Hitler. Another time at USO, in an infamous match with McEnroe, the umpire Frank Hammond disqualified him, but, as a riot rose among the crowd, the decision was corrected by the tournament referee Talbert. Between him and his close friend Connors, a bitter conflict started, when Connors told him (falsely) in a Las Vegas match, that his mother had died in an Rumanian earthquake.

The Gorilla 07-30-2007 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urban (Post 1625789)
All things, that can distract an opponent. Stalling, mocking, arguing, screaming, spitting, even throwing sets and matches. Often a bit childish. Once he played a Wim doubles with Connors with a bowler hat or with an umbrella. Sometimes he screamed at line judges and umpires, they should call him Mr. Nastase.At Bournemouth against Panatta, once a match was halted for an hour, due to his antics. At USO he almost got into a fight with German Pohmann, called him Hitler. Another time at USO, in an infamous match with McEnroe, the umpire Frank Hammond disqualified him, but, as a riot rose among the crowd, the decision was corrected by the tournament referee Talbert. Between him and his close friend Connors, a bitter conflict started, when Connors told him (falsely) in a Las Vegas match, that his mother had died in an Rumanian earthquake.


this I have to see

War, Safin! 07-30-2007 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithchircop (Post 1625637)
In his recent book, Năstase claimed that he slept with around 2,500 women. After hearing this, his wife said that she was happy to have conquered such a man....

:rolleyes:

galain 07-30-2007 02:53 PM

He was playing doubles with Arthur Ashe at Wimby, and in an effort to have his team colour coordinated, turned up for his match in black face paint!

Gorecki 07-31-2007 05:20 AM

I roll on floor peeing myself of laughter everytime a see someone claiming that the greatest time of sport (any sport at all) are long gone.

the athletic performance is nowadays 10 times bigger that in the 70's. and this goes for tennis too.

i wonder why people dont compare Rene Lacoste with Bill Tilden... saying those were the days... lets face it. tennis is now more developed than it was back then in every single aspect....

ps: no... im not 16 years old... im am 30.

CyBorg 07-31-2007 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorecki (Post 1628269)
ps: no... im not 16 years old... im am 30.

Could have fooled me. You presented such a 'mature' argument. ;)

keithchircop 07-31-2007 10:24 AM

In case you didn't notice the number of unforced errors keeps increasing and the number of winners keeps decreasing. Just re-watch this year's French Open final. Do you prefer watching players banging from the baseline until one hits it out, or do you prefer someone hitting a winner?

Moose Malloy 07-31-2007 11:08 AM

Quote:

In case you didn't notice the number of unforced errors keeps increasing and the number of winners keeps decreasing.
There were far more errors in the wood racquet era & far less winners. The equipment(racquets & strings) today has drastically reduced the margin for era(look at some of those wimbledon matches, gasquet had 90 winners & 20 errors vs Roddick, that is simply impossible with wood racquets, regardless of superior fitness, athleticism, technique of todays players compared to the 70s)
Djokovic, Ginepri & Robredo hit with woodies earlier this year & said it would be impossible for them to play the same way(swing hard & freely) as they do with modern racquets, saying that they would have to play 'safer' in order to do win with those racquets.

CyBorg 07-31-2007 06:51 PM

That's certainly the point.

If woodies were introduced again tennis would change drastically. Yes - you can hit very hard with wood. It's true. You can also serve very hard with wood.

BUT.... your accuracy suffers, which is why players hit much 'safer' in the old days and didn't hit the **** out of the ball like they do now. I don't think Sampras would be very effective with wood with the kind of state of mind that he developed when growing up with a graphite racket. We know the Wilander story - when he was defeated by Pete at the 89 US Open - how Pete won despite generally low IQ tennis (but plenty of power). Hand him a wooden racket and he'd have to get a brain transplant.

It's all fair and square. Different eras, different players. Whatever. I accept it.

But, folks, try and be fair to the players of yesteryear. They'd wipe the floor with today's players if wooden rackets were used. They possessed unparalleled touch compared to today's pros because they had to learn a different, more subtle game. It sure didn't look like something from a video game with lightning fast rallies, but it was impressive all the same.

It was art. But not everyone can recognize art. Everyone can recognize Paul Haggis. Broad and obvious. That's right - modern tennis is Paul Haggis on a golden toilet.

No, check that - modern tennis is Commando or that '300' movie .. old-age tennis is Total Recall with its subtle satire and Fascist undertones.

(I'm drunk)

keithchircop 07-31-2007 11:03 PM

Cy, you had me until you compared old tennis to Total Recall.

Are we sure there were less winners with S&Vers constantly coming to the net?

Btw, that Gasquet match was a total anomaly, even Federer was amazed.

morten 08-01-2007 07:44 AM

great stuff urban, and others... :)

Rabbit 08-01-2007 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urban (Post 1625789)
At USO he almost got into a fight with German Pohmann, called him Hitler. Another time at USO, in an infamous match with McEnroe, the umpire Frank Hammond disqualified him, but, as a riot rose among the crowd, the decision was corrected by the tournament referee Talbert.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla (Post 1625895)
this I have to see

Urban is right, as usual. In the first match, Nastase got particularly ugly. He beat the German and when the German refused to shake hands after the match, the crowd began to vent on Nastase. Nastase's response was to spit a mouthful of his courtside orange drink back at the crowd.

In the second match, I believe at the 1979 US Open, he and McEnroe did get into it. The match started late and the crowd, in anticipation, was fairly well lubricated with whatever beer they served back then. Frank Hammond was one of the most respected umpires around back then and if I remember right, one of the few professional umpires. He DQ'd Nastase and the crowd went ballistic. If I remember right, McEnroe had, typically, lost the crowd by trying to hit Nastase. Of course, Nastase acted like he'd done nothing. But, when the match started to turn against him, Nastase began questioning every call in fairly graphic terms. I think that match ended after midnight.

There are tons of more examples. One of my favorites was when Nastase was playing a US claycourt event in preparation of the US Open. The match was to be televised and he was given a pre-match briefing by the TV folks. They pleaded with him to not use any vulgar language or gestures. They almost got what they wanted. Nastase agreed to be a good boy. His opponent that day was an Italian whose name I can't remember. Nastase made good on his promise, he didn't use any vulgarities in English, rather saying what he had to say in Italian for the benefit of his opponent. Nastase also used an Italian version of the finger during the match which finally sent his opponent over the edge.

During the whole match, Nastase's behavior and demeanor toward the English-speaking American crowd was light and playful. He smiled and acted like nothing out of the ordinary was going on.

There were two players who bothered Nastase. Those two were Stan Smith and Bjorn Borg. The reason they bothered him was that neither ever reacted to any of Nastase's antics. It got into Nastase's head that he couldn't get into theirs. I remember once, Nastase was getting his clock cleaned against Borg. In desparation, Nastase stood facing Borg, spread his legs, and dropped two balls from behind his back. Borg hadn't seen that before, apparently, and smiled. Then, Borg went back to beating Nastase's brains out.

Nastase's biggest weapons IMO, outside of his physical prowess, were his anticipation and unpredictability. He seemed to know where the other guy was hitting and had the uncanny ability to hit a shot that his opponent couldn't predict. Nastase was the first player I ever heard of who hit topspin lobs off forehand and backhand and on the dead run.

His most famous shot was the Bucharest Backfire as named by Bud Collins. When lobbed, Nastase would run back and with his back to the net, hit an over the shoulder overhead usually back past his opponent, with a wood racket. Nastase could also volley from anywhere around his body, between the legs, behind his back, over his left shoulder with his arm behind his head (at least that's all I saw).

The guy had incredible talent and phsyical ability.

keithchircop 08-03-2007 04:54 AM

A documentary about Borg winning Wimby 5 times in a row:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VsT_b_cPgAY

Includes highlights from matches against Taylor, Vilas, Nastase, Vitas, Connors, Tanner and Johnny Mac.


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