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-   -   Wise Tension Head on a SP Swing (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=196736)

tsmcauliffe 05-10-2008 10:26 AM

Wise Tension Head on a SP Swing
 
Does anyone know of anyway to modify an SP Swing so that I could but a Wise 2086 tensioning head on it?

YULitle 05-10-2008 10:33 AM

It's possible. But it's a lot of work. Talk to Herb at WISE directly for more info.


tsmcauliffe 05-10-2008 10:42 AM

Hey Yulitle, would there be a definate difference in stringing quality if I bought an Alpha Revo 4k, or if I did the work and put a Wise on my SP Swing?

YULitle 05-10-2008 10:59 AM

I personally think there is greater value in upgrading to a fixed clamp/6-pt system over upgrading like you are saying. You already have the advantage of constant pull, so all your gaining with the WISE on your machine is speed.

tsmcauliffe 05-10-2008 12:05 PM

Ook, thanks.

Nellie 05-10-2008 06:49 PM

I also remember comments from a poster who converted a gamma drop weight to use the Wise head. In his mind, it was a lot of trouble and not really worth the effort because it requred specially building a mounting adapter. Also, if you look at the picture above, the head ends up really far below the racquet mount, so that the string is pulled at quite an angle, screwing up tension measurements.

!Tym 05-10-2008 07:05 PM

Wise now offers the bracket you see for only like $35 more or something, designed to allow you to bold their machine onto dropweights.

In other words, you got a drill press, or a powerful hand drill (not the dinky battery operated ones), or access to a local machinist, it should be no problem to install one now on many dropweights but NOT all. Depends on the machine table.

You could even epoxy it with a very strong epoxy like PC-7 if you wanted, but of course, that would be more or less permanent.

In my opinion, unless you have a Laserfibre or ********* "special" dropweight, the benefit would be well worth it if you string semi-frequently or for other people.

People are more impressed by ooh and ah electronics and that's just a simple fact, and two, in my experience ratcheting dropweights are a hassle and give blisters if you string seem semi-frequently. I would recommend them for people who string their own rackets only, and maybe for a few friends at most. They ARE very effective, however. Don't be fooled by the you HAVE to get it exactly horizontal. Unless your eggregiously off, you won't be off by that much tension at all, like what, so you're off by 1.2lbs. or so at most, big deal.

Even the ********* machines do not give PERFECTLY spot on tension at every angle. I've taken a digital calibrator to mine, and found about a .7lb. variance from the extremes (i.e. like when it nearly bottoms out). I was dissapointed, but to me it's close enough. Fractions of a pound is really anal, imo, and wouldn't make a difference except to really picky people or people who are made aware beforehand so that it suddenly now "bothers" them.

tsmcauliffe 05-10-2008 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Tym (Post 2323398)
Wise now offers the bracket you see for only like $35 more or something, designed to allow you to bold their machine onto dropweights.

In other words, you got a drill press, or a powerful hand drill (not the dinky battery operated ones), or access to a local machinist, it should be no problem to install one now on many dropweights but NOT all. Depends on the machine table.

You could even epoxy it with a very strong epoxy like PC-7 if you wanted, but of course, that would be more or less permanent.

In my opinion, unless you have a Laserfibre or ********* "special" dropweight, the benefit would be well worth it if you string semi-frequently or for other people.

People are more impressed by ooh and ah electronics and that's just a simple fact, and two, in my experience ratcheting dropweights are a hassle and give blisters if you string seem semi-frequently. I would recommend them for people who string their own rackets only, and maybe for a few friends at most. They ARE very effective, however. Don't be fooled by the you HAVE to get it exactly horizontal. Unless your eggregiously off, you won't be off by that much tension at all, like what, so you're off by 1.2lbs. or so at most, big deal.

Even the ********* machines do not give PERFECTLY spot on tension at every angle. I've taken a digital calibrator to mine, and found about a .7lb. variance from the extremes (i.e. like when it nearly bottoms out). I was dissapointed, but to me it's close enough. Fractions of a pound is really anal, imo, and wouldn't make a difference except to really picky people or people who are made aware beforehand so that it suddenly now "bothers" them.

True to all of this. I think I'm just going to buy a Revo 4k.

kmartin 05-11-2008 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Tym (Post 2323398)
In my opinion, unless you have a Laserfibre or ********* "special" dropweight, the benefit would be well worth it if you string semi-frequently or for other people.

People are more impressed by ooh and ah electronics and that's just a simple fact, and two, in my experience ratcheting dropweights are a hassle and give blisters if you string seem semi-frequently. I would recommend them for people who string their own rackets only, and maybe for a few friends at most. They ARE very effective, however. Don't be fooled by the you HAVE to get it exactly horizontal. Unless your eggregiously off, you won't be off by that much tension at all, like what, so you're off by 1.2lbs. or so at most, big deal.

Even the ********* machines do not give PERFECTLY spot on tension at every angle. I've taken a digital calibrator to mine, and found about a .7lb. variance from the extremes (i.e. like when it nearly bottoms out). I was dissapointed, but to me it's close enough. Fractions of a pound is really anal, imo, and wouldn't make a difference except to really picky people or people who are made aware beforehand so that it suddenly now "bothers" them.

I've been wondering if Laserfibre/String_ways were really that much better than the normal dropweight. It seems like YULitle posted a link to a graph some time back, that showed tension variance on a normal dropweight when you are within 10 degrees of horizontal, was not much more than what you got. I have been leaning towards a String_way ML 100, but if the non-horizontal tension varies just like a normal dropweight, it wouldn't be nearly as desirable. Which model do you have, and are you pretty happy with it?

YULitle 05-11-2008 07:23 AM

The amount of tension variance per degree off horizontal is dependent on the reference tension.
Here's the graph for 60lbs.

!Tym 05-11-2008 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmartin (Post 2323962)
I've been wondering if Laserfibre/String_ways were really that much better than the normal dropweight. It seems like YULitle posted a link to a graph some time back, that showed tension variance on a normal dropweight when you are within 10 degrees of horizontal, was not much more than what you got. I have been leaning towards a String_way ML 100, but if the non-horizontal tension varies just like a normal dropweight, it wouldn't be nearly as desirable. Which model do you have, and are you pretty happy with it?

There is NO COMPARISON between a ********* dropweight and a ratcheting style dropweight. The ********* is simply in another class entirely. Ratcheting dropweights give blisters, are time consuming, and are no fun to string on. I have plenty of experience with them. I would never EVER go back.

The ********* ML100 is what I own and while it's true you have to be way off horizontal with a ratcheted tensioner to make any real significant difference, the ML100 is still more accurate, but more importantly it's quite simply about ten-ONE HUNDRED fold a nicer experience to string on--HANDS DOWN.

You'll also be cutting your stringing time down in half, if not more (those pesky blisters again).

It is DEFINITELY worth the extra money for a ********* over any sub-500 dropweight, period, in my opinion. Furthermore, other dropweights are usually seen and treated as the bargain basement step sister in most company's product lineups. As a result, they are treated as such and receive the manufacturer's lower-grade clamps and mounting components for the most part. With the *********, there is no such sacrifice. From their high-end electronic machines to their ML100, they all use interchangeable clamps and mounting. Their clamps do have some drawback, but it's not eggregious by any means, and the clamps themselves grip ALL kinds of strings exceptionally well with pretty much never an adjustment needed. Their mounting system is also a full class or two or three above the lower-grade 6-pt. mounting or 2-pt. mounting on most dropweights in my opinion.

You also have to factor in flex of the turntable. The more rigid and higher quality a turntable, the less tension loss. A lot of dropweight machines skimp out there. ********* does not. Very rigid twin i-beam design.

Again, there's just no comparison. The ML100 has been used to string run-offs at a pro challenger tournament before (the Bronx Challenger), INCLUDING one of Michael Chang's rackets. The story was that Carl Chang came into the player's lounge laughing saying he couldn't BELIEVE that his racket was strung on a dropweight. Note though, that he wasn't complaining about the quality of the string job, but rather that he just couldn't believe that a dropweight machine could produce a professional result.

I've strung for low-level touring pros with the ********* ML100 and they kept on coming back for more whenever they were in town. They LOVED the rackets that came off my machine.

Would I have the same confidence using a run-of-the-mill, "conventional" dropweight? No way, Jose'.

And yet it's not because of the tensioning mechanism (slow and clumsy and wearisome, but it gets the job done with due dilligence and patience...it's the whole tortoise vs. the hare type thing). It's because there's a lot more that goes into producing a quality string job than just the tensioner. Again, rigidity of the turntable, quality of the mounting system (can lead to premature frame fatigue, possible distortion, etc.), due to the clamps crimp the string unnecessarily leading to premature string breakage, due to the clamps hold tension well, and so on and so forth...well, actually not so on and so forth, but these are the other factors you have to consider and the bottom-line is that most dropweights being at the low-end of their manufacturer's totem pole get the scrub treatment, sorry to say.

Their reasoning? Well, any serious stringer would never deal with the hassle and labor-intensity of dealing with a ratcheted dropweight anyway, so why bother giving the star treatment to the clamps, turntable, and mounting anyway?

This reason more than any other is why you see dropweights traditionally being seen as "lesser", "hobby" designs...and NOT the actual ability of the dropweight ITSELF to produce professional results.

tsmcauliffe 05-11-2008 11:04 AM

Just buy a Revo 4k.

Zhou 05-11-2008 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsmcauliffe (Post 2324620)
Just buy a Revo 4k.

Now here is the problem. Revos are out and another shipment is not to come until June at the earliest.

tsmcauliffe 05-11-2008 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhou (Post 2324639)
Now here is the problem. Revos are out and another shipment is not to come until June at the earliest.

Well, then wait.

kmartin 05-11-2008 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmartin (Post 2323962)
I've been wondering if Laserfibre/String_ways were really that much better than the normal dropweight. It seems like YULitle posted a link to a graph some time back, that showed tension variance on a normal dropweight when you are within 10 degrees of horizontal, was not much more than what you got. I have been leaning towards a String_way ML 100, but if the non-horizontal tension varies just like a normal dropweight, it wouldn't be nearly as desirable. Which model do you have, and are you pretty happy with it?

I just realized you said a 7/10ths of a pound variance, instead of a 7 pound variance that I initially thought you said when I made the above post. I read too quickly and missed the decimal point in your post: ".7lb. variance". A variance of less than a pound seems like a small price to pay for the luxury of never having to worry about being even close to horizontal.

Ljubicic for number1 05-11-2008 10:32 PM

Hi Guys, Rather than starting a new thread I thought I could pop this question in here.

Do anybody know of a retailer of the wise tension head in the USA other than the manufactorer?

I am looking at getting one for my jadee machine but wise won't ship to Australia as they have a distributor here. Problem is the Aussie distributor is more than double the price of the USA price. If I could find a US dealer willing to ship to Australia it would still be much more cost effective even after paying the freight.

Thanks guys.

!Tym 05-12-2008 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmartin (Post 2325401)
I just realized you said a 7/10ths of a pound variance, instead of a 7 pound variance that I initially thought you said when I made the above post. I read too quickly and missed the decimal point in your post: ".7lb. variance". A variance of less than a pound seems like a small price to pay for the luxury of never having to worry about being even close to horizontal.

Most of the your general range should be in about .2 to .3lbs. or so with the *********s, i.e. a few pulls will bottom-out more than others, but more or less, extreme ranges are relatively rare, and you can prevent this by just repulling the string taughter a second time to get the stretch out.

rich s 05-12-2008 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nellie (Post 2323367)
I also remember comments from a poster who converted a gamma drop weight to use the Wise head. In his mind, it was a lot of trouble and not really worth the effort because it requred specially building a mounting adapter. Also, if you look at the picture above, the head ends up really far below the racquet mount, so that the string is pulled at quite an angle, screwing up tension measurements.

This is my unit.....

http://www.photostringer.com/gamma_p...i_602fc_01.htm

Not hard to build the adapter.... and..... a straight pull thru the frame, so no issues with tension loss due to pull angle.

Works great.

rich s 05-12-2008 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YULitle (Post 2324202)
The amount of tension variance per degree off horizontal is dependent on the reference tension.
Here's the graph for 60lbs.

You don't need graph....to find your applied tension (minus friction) just multiply the reference tension by the cosine of the number of degrees the drop arm is above or below horizontal.

ie 60(cos10*) = 60(.985) = 59.1# tension

YULitle 05-12-2008 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich s (Post 2327407)
60(cos10*) = 60(.985) = 59.1# tension

= that graph.

How else do you think I got those figures? :D


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