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-   -   Mansewerz's Guide to Buying Stringing Machines (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=213946)

Mansewerz 08-05-2008 08:41 PM

Mansewerz's Guide to Buying Stringing Machines
 
The following post is strictly my opinion. I will try to remain as objective as I can and become subjective when necessary. These are not the ultimate authority on any subject.

Do I need a stringing machine?
If you belong to any, but not limited to just one, of the following groups, then you may need a stringing machine.
  • My stringer charges $15 or more for basic synthetic gut
  • I want to save money on stringing
  • I break strings often
  • My racquets often come back from the stringer with varying tensions when they should be the same
  • My stringer damaged my frames
  • My frames are valuable to me and I trust myself taking care of them more than someone else
  • I have the time to string and like doing handy work
  • I'm willing to make an initial investment for a bare minimum of $135 (price is for a brand new basic stringer)
  • My stringer incorrectly strings my racquets
  • I'm interested in stringing. Some people, like myself and Diredesire like to work with their hands and like doing technical stuff. We enjoy that thing, and you may too.
  • I want to experiment with different string setups and be in charge of it. You don't want to pay someone else for the labor of every string job. (Note: This is where buying a stringing machine can cost you more money. You may get addicted to trying different string jobs, and instead of just stringing to have a racquet to use, you're a string fanatic! But still, it will still be cheaper to experiment with your own machine than the local stringer.)

Now if you need a stringer, continue reading. If you don't, but you still would like to learn about stringers, continue reading. If you don't need a stringer and you're done learning about stringing machines, feel free to close this thread and do as you please.

Types of stringing machines (Grouped by tensioners)

Dropweights- Dropweights are tensioners that utilize gravity to tension a string. A weight is positioned on a rod connected to the machine according to tension, and "dropped" (the weight and bar should be allowed and assisted to fall down slowly and gently). Basic laws of physics apply here. If the bar drops and stops at a horizontal (parallel the floor) position, the string is tension to the desired weight, and the string should be clamped off, and then one goes on to tension the next string. If the bar does not fall to a parallel position, then the bar is lifted so that the grippers disengage, and let go of the string. Then you adjust the amount of slack of the string, put it back into the string gripper, and once again "drop" the dropweight. Repeat until horizontal. If the bar is above horizontal, give more slack. If below, give less slack.

Some machines have a clutch mechanism (usually ratchet, or just silent like the Silent Partner dropweights) that allow the stringer to hold the tensioning drum, and lift the bar a little bit, and re-drop so to see if the bar will fall to parallel. Clutch mechanisms are designed so that the operator doesn't have to release the string and feed more or less slack. In a way, it helps lessen the workload of the operator in tensioning (especially for stringers that are just starting out. But hey, I always use my clutch, and i've strung on my machine for a while now.) This is only used when the bar falls below parallel. If it falls above parallel, adjust the slack, re-drop, and go on from there.

Dropweights are usually the slowest type of tensioner, hence the reason why most basic machines are dropweights. Also, dropweights are pretty simple to use, and with practice, they can become a fast method for tensioning. The system itself is pretty simple as well. It's pretty much a lever with a weight. No locking mechanisms or complicated springs.

Never, I repeat, never under any circumstances, force the bar down farther than it will freely go. Doing so can damage the string and the racquet, and, in some cases, forcing the bar can damage the machine. Also, the desired tension will not be reached. It will be much greater than the set tension.



Cranks-Cranks, aka Lockout machines, are a tensioning mechanism that uses a pre-loaded spring to determine when proper tension is reached. There is a crank, that has a built in brake/locking mechanism. The stringer turns the crank until the tension is reached, then the brake is engaged and no longer allows the stringer to turn the crank, and then that string being tensioned is clamped off. The stringer then disengages the brake and tensions the next string.

The mechanism is known as a "lockout" mechanism, which is why cranks are also known as "lockout" machines. Cranks are typically the fastest tensioner, but require more physical work than electronics or automatic dropweights. Note: When I say faster, I mean that they are able to tension strings more quickly. You should not turn the crank at full speed to quickly tension the string. A slow, consistent speed gives the most accurate results.



Electronic tensioners-These are the high end tensioners that use a motor/microprocessor to tension a string. Pretty simple to use. Hit the button, the string is tensioned. Hit the button again, go tension the next string.

Important Note: There is a difference between "electric" tensioners and tensioners controlled by the use of electronics, or an electronic tensioner for short. Simple electric tensioners work in a fashion similar to lockout machines. A preloaded reference spring is used to get the tensioner to stop pulling. Electronic tensioners use sophisticated, high end control electronics to sense a change in tension/load and adjust to those changes. This helps keep a "true", steady reference tension in each string. Lower end, electric machines typically don't sense these changes in loads, and if they do, they do it in a relatively poor manner. The lower end electric machines will typically be cheaper than the electronic machines.

Electronic tensioners are rather fast, not quite on par with cranks, but they can be easier to use. Also, keep in mind that some electronic tensioners can be very slow to pull to refernce tension.



Automatic dropweights-These are a rather new tensioning mechanism that utilizes a dropweight to tension a string, but unlike ordinary dropweights, as long as these don't fall all the way and bottom out, the angle of the tension rod/arm is irrelevant because proper tension will always be pulled. Auto dropweights have a special design that maintains the length of the string relative to the angle of the pull. This allows for this "any angle" constant pull. Today, only Laserfibre and Stringway produce machines utilizing this type of tensioner. Revolutionary? You decide.

Automatic dropweights are much faster than regular dropweights. They can tension a string just as fast as a crank tensioner, but the fact that the weight has to be lifted back up to release the string after clamping causes it to be slower than a crank overall. However, it can still be a very fast type of tensioner.



Constant Pull v.s. Lockout-Constant pull machines are machines whose tensioner pulls tension until proper tension is reached and continues to pull tension. The purpose of the constant pull is to maintain accurate tension in a string. It helps create a more consistent stringbed. Lockout machines are those that utilize a preloaded spring to stop the tensioner from continuing to pull tension and stop pulling tension once proper tension is reached.

*A machine that uses constant tends to string a tighter than a machine that uses lockout technology. Likewise, it is vice versa for lockouts. If you ordinarily get your racquet strung with a lockout, then it is probably 5-10 % looser than if it was strung with a constant pull machine. Adjust accordingly when getting your racquet strung. This is a basic rule of thumb, and the reasons for it are complicated and I'd rather not explain it here. *

Machines that use constant pull
  • Dropweights
  • Electronic machines
  • Automatic dropweights

Machines that use lockout technology
  • Cranks
  • Certain Electric


A quick note regarding lockout v.s. constant pull. If you're getting an electric/electronic machine, in my opinion, don't get one that uses lockout technology. It is just the same as a crank, but with a motor doing the cranking for you. (In essence).

The crank will typically be cheaper than the lockout electric machine. The best way to tell if an electric machine is lockout v.s. constant pull is to check the description of the machine, or better yet, talk to the company's "Machine guy", for lack of a better word.

It's typically user preference when selecting between an electric (lockout technology) and a crank. An electric can, theoretically, be more consistent by removing human error in tensioning, especially if you're getting lazy at the end of a long day of stringing.



More to come in following posts.

Mansewerz 08-05-2008 08:41 PM

The following post is strictly my opinion. I will try to remain as objective as I can and become subjective when necessary. These are not the ultimate authority on any subject.

Here are the different levels of stringing machines. I will give a few examples of each type, and my choice from each category if price was not an object and the one with the best features/quality. (I do not have experience with any of these machines except for the Silent Partner Swing and ATS Super stringer. The choices otherwise are based on reviews and things i've heard from various sources.)

Entry Level Machines-Table top machines. Basic starting machines for those just stringing for themselves, those that want to learn how to string without going bankrupt, those that want to see if stringing is for them, and/or for those that just want something to get the job done. They come with a basic 2 point mounting, floating clamps, and a dropweight tensioner Some entry level machines may come with 6 pt mounting, for example the Gamma Progression II 602. (Note: Some of these machines come with the clutch mechanism.)
Example(s):
  • Klippermate ($135 new, $125 for blemished version that works fine)
  • Gamma X-2 ($159)
  • ATS Super Stringer II (Gamma X-2 clone, just about the same exact thing, a bit cheaper at $159)
  • Silent Partner Swing ($199, $229 with shipping)
  • Gamma Progression II 602 ($339)

Before anyone asks or makes another thread about the Gamma x-2 vs the Klippermate, read these.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ht=klippermate
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ht=klippermate
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ht=klippermate




My choice-The Silent Partner Swing.

Reasoning-I own this machine as of now, and I have more experience with this machine.

Honestly, pretty much all of these machines are very similar with the exception of the Gamma Progression II 602. The real selling point of each machine is typically the after sales service of the company, what kind of string/tool package each one comes with, and the quality of the flying clamps.

These lower end, entry level machines fall short of higher end machines in the following categories:
  • Speed: Higher end machines typically operate quicker.
  • Clamping: Fixed clamps are typically more consistent and stable.
  • Mounting: The 2 point mounting systems can protect a racquet, but racquets deform more on the 2 point mounting systems (especially the entry level ones) than on 6 point mounting systems


Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...+partner+swing
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...+partner+swing
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...+partner+swing
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...+partner+swing



Table Top 6 point mounting and fixed clamps-This is probably the best kind of dropweight you could get (not including automatic dropweights of course). Fixed clamps that are usually superior to flying clamps. They're more stable, and they don't depend on an anchor string (which isn't even that rigid in the first place). Also, there is no fixed clamping width, which makes the clamping system more flexible. The standard of 6 point mounting. Some come with linear grippers (more about them later). Most come with some sort of clutch mechanism. Sturdier turntables. For the price, you get a machine designed for a more predictable, repeatable operation. This "repeatable" factor improves the consistency of your string jobs from racquet to racquet. These machines protect your racquet more with their 6 point mounting systems. These machines provide many home stringers with a simple, yet durable, product.

Examples:
  • Alpha Pioneer DC Plus ($429)
  • Gamma Progression II 602FC ($469)
  • Mutual Power Hercules 680 ($299)
  • Mutual Power Hercules 690 ($329)
  • Silent Partner Hip Hop ($379)

Links:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...power+hercules
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ma+progression





My choice-Here, it's a split decision. It depends on what kind of customers I would have. It's split between the Silent Partner Hip Hop and the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus.

Alpha Pioneer DC Plus

Reasoning-Great quality. It comes with a linear gripper with a ratchet system, and the spring assisted clamps require less effort to use. The machine also comes with a pretty good package of tools (that you can choose) and a selection of strings. Finaly, Alpha is known for legendary customer service. When you call Alpha, ask for Mark G. Even if he's not there, the others guys, such as Greg, are also known to be very helpful.

Links:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...a+pioneer+plus
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...a+pioneer+plus
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...a+pioneer+plus


Silent Partner Hip Hop

Reasoning-The mounting system is quicker. It controls both "outside" supports with one knob, opposed to two. Also it has a brake that helps with the stringing of O3 racquets. Silent Partner customer service is pretty good. I've had no troubles with them. It falls short of the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus in the gripper territory. It utilizes a rotational gripper (more on this later as well), but the clutch is silent. Also, the clamp bases take a little more effort to use (they're cone lock clamp bases).

Links:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...artner+hip+hop
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...artner+hip+hop



More later, tired now.

zidane339 08-05-2008 08:47 PM

Good job Mansewerz, I'll try to look it over and see if you missed anything.

Mods, sticky?

Shoot, I should of not replied so you can have consecutive posts for more info.
I apologize Mansewerz if that screws you up.

If it does, I can post your info on my post if you would like. Let me know.Sorry again.

YULitle 08-05-2008 09:00 PM

Very nice. :D

iplaybetter 08-05-2008 09:23 PM

nice solid guide, though it lacks some insite gained by actual use/encounter

zidane339 08-05-2008 09:28 PM

True, but I think Mansewerz has a lot of good secondhand knowledge. Not to mention, I don't think a person with hands on knowledge could add much more to what Mansewerz wrote.Its quite comprehensive!

iplaybetter 08-05-2008 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zidane339 (Post 2588401)
True, but I think Mansewerz has a lot of good secondhand knowledge. Not to mention, I don't think a person with hands on knowledge could add much more to what Mansewerz wrote.Its quite comprehensive!

its good, no doubt, but there are things about machines that you only know once you have used them, and just using them one is not always enough
very subtle things like the diference between a prince crank and an alpha crank: the prince will stay where you leave it, the alpha will have the handle drop to the bottom, placing the crank wherever that position is
little thing, but if you go back and forth certain habbits work on one and not the other

xtremerunnerars 08-05-2008 09:40 PM

I love you.



Those automatic dropweights are pretty freakin sweet!

Mansewerz 08-05-2008 11:01 PM

No worries zidane, as long as its in here. i agree with iplay, this is a good opportunity to contribute if you wish ( this goes for everyone )

volusiano 08-06-2008 02:16 AM

I guess this contribution redeems Mansewerz from his little LF joke in the other post.

JamesBond 08-06-2008 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansewerz (Post 2588291)
Automatic dropweights-These are a rather new tensioning mechanism that utilizes a dropweight to tension a string, but unlike ordinary dropweights, as long as these don't fall all the way and bottom out, the angle of the tension rod/arm is irrelevant because proper tension will always be pulled. Revolutionary? You decide.



Constant Pull v.s. Lockout-Constant pull machines are machines whose tensioner pulls tension until proper tension is reached and continues to pull tension. Lockout machines are those that utilize a preloaded spring to stop the tensioner from continuing to pull tension and stop pulling tension once proper tension is reached.

*A machine that uses constant tends to string a tighter than a machine that uses lockout technology. Likewise, it is vice versa for lockouts. If you ordinarily get your racquet strung with a lockout, then it is probably 5-10 lbs looser than if it was strung with a constant pull machine. Adjust accordingly when getting your racquet strung.*

Machines that use constant pull
  • Dropweights
  • Most electronics (especially high end ones)
  • Automatic dropweights
Machines that use lockout technology
  • Cranks
  • Certain Electronics

Thank you so much for this contribution. It's really a pleasure to see a genuine Stringway ML.100 T.92 on Talk Tennis
With some good quality posts of personal experiences with this and the other machines mentionned, this thread has every chance of becoming a reference in the topic of Stringing Machines.
I would be very pleased to participate if you would like me to.
Thanks again,
JB.

theace21 08-06-2008 06:48 AM

Make it a sticky - nice job...

Mansewerz 08-06-2008 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2588998)
Thank you so much for this contribution. It's really a pleasure to see a genuine Stringway ML.100 T.92 on Talk Tennis
With some good quality posts of personal experiences with this and the other machines mentionned, this thread has every chance of becoming a reference in the topic of Stringing Machines.
I would be very pleased to participate if you would like me to.
Thanks again,
JB.

Of course. Any insight you have about this machine or machines of that sort are welcome here.

nadalfan! 08-06-2008 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mansewerz (Post 2589348)
Of course. Any insight you have about this machine or machines of that sort are welcome here.

What about the rest of the guide when u gonna have it up?

Mansewerz 08-06-2008 09:18 AM

Working on it as we speak. Gathering info, formatting, and typing will take a bit.

JediMindTrick 08-06-2008 09:20 AM

Are the cranks really faster than electronics?

Mansewerz 08-06-2008 09:31 AM

I've heard so from YULitle. Crap, I can't find the actual post, but I remember him saying something like that when I asked.

BCEagle01 08-06-2008 09:38 AM

Thanks for taking the time! Looks like the beginnings of a really great thread.

Mansewerz 08-06-2008 09:39 AM

Level of Stringing Machines (continued)
 
Here are more categories/levels of stringing machines.

Table top cranks-If you're going to string more than a few rackets per week, say 5-10 racquets per week, these machines are for you. A standard these days for table top cranks are sturdy turntables, fixed clamps (spring assisted or not), 6 point mounting, and most times, a table brake. Cranks allow you to string much faster, so if you're short on time, get a crank. Note: Most tabletop cranks come with a screw brake. Although it works well, they're inferior to disc brakes.

Also, remember that cranks are capable of being faster, but shouldn't be cranked faster just to go faster. Crank at a moderate, consistent speed. Cranks can also be less physically demanding because you are turning a handle rather than lifting a dropweight.

Examples:
  • Alpha Revo 4000 ($599)
  • Silent Partner Crump ($499)
  • Gamma Progression ST II ($679)
  • Gamma X-ST ($699)

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ma+progression
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ma+progression
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...+partner+crump
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...+partner+crump




My choice-The Alpha Revo 4000

Reasoning-The Alpha Revo 4000 is one of the most praised machines on this board. Great value for the money. Mounting is top notch. The clamps work well, and service of Alpha is known as one of the best. Besides, there's a reason they're always on backorder.

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ght=alpha+revo
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ght=alpha+revo


Table Top Electrics-Table top electrics are table top machines that use an electric tensioner. These are usually inferior to higher end electronic tensioners by a long shot. They're usually not true constant pull, and even the Gamma machines, which use the same tensioner, lock out to a certain degree. For more information, refer to the electric tensioner descriptions. Coming standard with 6 point mounting and fixed clamps.

(I put table top electrics right after table top cranks because I believe that a machine with a stand beats any kind of table top assuming that it works just as well.)

Please Note: The Gamma Machines ARE constant pull, but they use spring loaded constant pull rather than traditional load sensor constant pull.

Examples:
  • Gamma Progression ES II+ ($979)
  • Gamma X-ES ($999)
  • Silent Partner Jive ($699)

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...letop+electric
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ighlight=table




My choice- Gamma Progression ES II+

Reasoning- Haven't heard any faults with this machine. Not sure if the Gamma progression tables' problems occur here too. YULitle has firsthand experience with this machine, so it's best you ask him. But, the tool tray is tiny. Also, there is no brake on this machine. The Gamma X-ES may be the better option as it has a bigger tray, but the machines are pretty much similar.

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ma+progression
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ma+progression


Stand alone Cranks-These are the machines with the stands and crank tensioners. More often than not, you'll find these in a pro shop. Here is where we get nitpicky. The price range is very large because there are little features like self centering mounts, disc lock brakes, wheels, etc, that call for different machines from the same company. I've chosen to keep this as one category because in the end, they're all cranks with a stand. Again, the standard of fixed clamps applies here, but 6 point mounting is NOT universal here. You'll notice 2 point mounting, 4 point mounting, and 6 point mounting here. I'll provide a link on such a topic later.

Examples:
  • Prince Neos 1000 ($1100)
  • Gamma 6004 ($1299 2 or 6 pt mounting)
  • Alpha Apex 2 ($1099)
  • Alpha Axis Pro ($799)

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=machine+stand
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=machine+stand
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=machine+stand
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=machine+stand




My choice-The Alpha Apex 2.

Reasoning-This machine has spring assisted clamp bases, and a self centering mounting system. The six point mounting system is usually considered more secure, and protects the racquet better. Also, the disc lock brake is easier to use than the screw brake. Honestly, at this point, the machine choices are more user preference. The Neos' two point mounting system allows for more deformation, but takes away the trouble of blocked holes, and it will protect racquets as well. Plus the thing is a workhorse.

Any of the machines in this category work well. I simply prefer the Apex 2.
Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ght=alpha+apex
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ght=alpha+apex

Mansewerz 08-06-2008 09:39 AM

Levels of Machines (continued)
 
Here's some more levels of stringing machines.

"Entry Level" Electronic machines on a stand- I call these entry level because they're electronic machines, but not quite the really high end ones pros use. Again, like stand alone cranks, they come with pretty much the same features, only difference is the electronic tensioner.

Also, all of these machines use sophisticated electronic tensioners. They have load sensing electronics (uProcessors) that detect minute changes in tension. They are significantly better than table top electrics and cranks.

Lastly, the biggest feature of these machines is they have true constant pull technology.

Examples:
  • Silent Partner Aria ($1599)
  • Silent Partner e.Stringer DG ($999)
  • Gamma 6500 ELS ($1799)

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...tner+estringer
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=203426
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ght=gamma+6500




My choice-Silent Partner Aria

Reasoning-It comes with 3 tooth clamps and spring assisted clamps. Silent partner has great service. Unique, yet safe gripper. However, the brake is a screw brake, not a disc lock brake. Also, the mounting side posts are controlled with one knob, but i'm not sure if the whole mounting system is self centering. Regardless, the machine has true constant pull technology. Price is cheaper than Gamma, but a used one in good condition can run for $1000.

Quick Note: If the tension input is digitally controlled, odds are the machine uses a sophisticated electronic tensioner. The lockout electric tensioners typically use a knob to set the tension on a spring.

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...t+partner+aria
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...t+partner+aria


Professional Level Electronic Stringing Machines-Ladies and Gentleman, the creme de la creme. These are the machines that are high quality, used in pro shops, and not easy on the wallet. They have features making all other machines look simple. Electronic tensioners, various mounting systems, and top of the line clamps and turntables. A stringer's dream!

Features-wise, the Silent Partner Aria and DG are similar. However, these pro level machines are typically faster, self calibrating, have little convienient touches, and have higher quality parts and electronics.

Examples:
  • Prince 3000 (Price????)(Ask iplaybetter about his)
  • Babolat Star 5 ($3000)
  • Tecnifibre TF7000 ($6000)
  • Silent Partner Opus ($2799)

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...t+partner+aria
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...t+partner+opus
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ghlight=tf7000




My choice- Babolat Star 5

Reasoning-The Babolat Star 5 is one of the standards for Pro level machines. YULitle and flash9 have used this machine before. Great guys to ask about this machine. The tensioner is built for speed, and the 3 tooth clamps with their clamp bases have minimal drawback. The table utilizes unique, curved rails, but they hold firmly. Babolat has great customer service, and they are a proven name in the business. This machine is designed to help the stringer.

Once again, the differences between these machines are user preference. Each machine may be nearly identical to another with the smallest difference. I would love to have any of machines to string on.

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ghlight=tf7000
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...t=babolat+star


Wise 2086 Tension Head-The Wise 2086 is an aftermarket electronic tension head. It retails for $495. You can get it with the foot pedal as well. There are many features, but there are disadvantages too. One disadvantage is the loss of 360 degree table rotation. Most people add a Wise onto a crank machine to get constant pull. One option when buying a machine is getting a crank and a wise instead of an electronic.

Some people also add the Wise to certain dropweights. The Eagnas Challenger I has a bracket designed to accomodate the Wise (bracket is available from Wise), but others require self fabricated brackets.

There are quite a few threads on the Wise tension head. Decide for yourself if it's for you.

Links
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ight=wise+2086
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ight=wise+2086
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...ight=wise+2086


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