Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   General Pro Player Discussion (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Karsten Braasch vs. Serena and Venus (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=21533)

Datacipher 06-30-2004 11:09 PM

For those who thought Braasch vs Wiliams was competitive...
 
WILLIAMS SISTERS DISCOVER MEN ARE BETTER PLAYERS

MELBOURNE -- Venus and Serena Williams discovered they're no match for the men on the ATP tennis tour, at least not yet.

In an impromptu 'Battle of the Sexes' at the Australian Open yesterday, first Serena, then Venus challenged No 203 Karsten Braasch to a set apiece, and he beat them both.

Serena fell 6-1, Venus 6-2. They played as intensely as they could, while Braasch performed with gentlemanly restraint.

"It was extremely hard," said the 16-year-old Serena. "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

That didn't stop her from boasting that "this time next year I'll beat him. I have to pump some weight . . . I have to work hard to be on the men's tour."

Venus, 17, wasn't about to concede too much either, especially since she broke Braasch's serve once.

"I can beat men in the 300s and up," she said. "He thought we couldn't get a point. He didn't think we could play. We showed him we could."

Asked if she might not want to take on players on the senior tour, or retired men as Billie-Jean King did against 1939 Wimbledon champion Bobby Riggs in their ballyhooed 'Battle of the Sexes' in 1973, Venus shook her beaded head.

"I'm going for the young guns," she said.

Braasch smiled at their claims.

"Against anyone in the top 500, no chance," Braasch said, "because I was playing like 600 today."

The sister act played Braasch on Court 12 in the boondocks of the Australian Open complex. A few hundred fans and players who wandered by witnessed the event along with a crowd of media. No umpire, no linesmen, no ball boys, no scoreboard. And no prize money or bets. Only pride was at stake.

It all started a few days ago when the Williams sisters wandered into the ATP tour office at the Australian Open and boldly claimed they could beat any of the men ranked 200 or above. The bespectacled Braasch, a German who has sunk in the rankings after reaching 38 in 1994, happened to be in the office and took up the challenge.

Venus was still in the tournament at the time so a match was set between Serena and Braasch for Sunday. Rain postponed that until yesterday and with the sun shining Serena and Braasch showed up ready to defend the honour of their sexes.

At least that's how Serena saw it. For Braasch, it was a joke. He never even considered the possibility he might be ridiculed by the other men players if he lost.

"Everyone knew that there's no chance for them," he said. "They were talking to me, that I should go out and beat them by as much as possible. They said make it 24 points and go off the court."

He played, he said, for fun, "because tennis doesn't have to be serious, especially when you're out of the tournament." Braasch lost last week in the singles and doubles.

When Riggs lost to King at the Houston Astrodome, there was a crowd of more than 30 000 -- the biggest in tennis history. That nationally televised exhibition, four months after Riggs' 'Mother's Day Massacre' of Margaret Court, did more to establish women's tennis than any other match or tournament.

The Williams sisters, in their way, are bringing new life to the women's tour, even if they couldn't beat Braasch. Venus reached the final of the US Open and the quarters here. Serena has beaten three top 10 players since turning pro a few months ago. Each has the personality and flash to make the sport more popular than ever.

Braasch, a left-handed junk ball expert with a convoluted service motion, won the first five games against Serena. He ran her dizzy all over the court, showing her a befuddling assortment of spins.

He could have hit harder if he wanted, taken her out of points sooner, but as her unofficial coach, Nick Bollettieri, noted at courtside, "He's being kind to her."

Venus, who had just changed into jeans after losing in the women's quarter-finals to Lindsay Davenport, showed up at Court 12 late and saw her sister getting trounced.

"I'd definitely take this guy on," she said. When Braasch held at love to 5-0, Venus' competitiveness got the better of her.

"Maybe I should go get dressed," she said to Bollettieri. "What do you think, Nick?"

"Go for it," he answered.

Venus raced across Melbourne Park, her multi-coloured beads flying among the surprised fans. She changed quickly and raced right back, arriving out of breath just as Serena won her only game when Braasch netted a backhand after a couple of deuces.

The small crowd roared for Serena, but Braasch closed out the set with an ace a few moments later.

As Serena and Braasch shook hands, Venus entered the court and issued her own challenge to Braasch.

Venus had as little success as Serena when the match got under way. She lost her first service game at love, managed only one point on Braasch's serve and dropped her next serve.

But after going down 4-0, Venus held serve at love as Braasch hit several errors.

Perhaps boredom was setting in because Braasch then lost his own serve to 4-2 when Venus cracked a sizzling forehand past him on her second break point.

Braasch wasn't about to let the set get away. He stepped up his pace a bit, overpowered Venus on her serve and closed out the match with an ace.

"I took at least 50 per cent off my serve," Braasch said.

"I came out with a few hard ones, but not too much because then it's not fun anymore and it was supposed to be fun." -- Sapa-AP

Cypo 07-01-2004 12:13 AM

Thanks for digging that up and posting it. I just can't get the image out of my head of a high school sophomore and junior going into the ATP office and saying they can beat any guy over 200. It's so classic, I love it.

JohnThomas1 07-01-2004 03:37 AM

Excellent post as usual Datacipher! Unbelievably i just fell across a story on this match in an old tennis mag i recently won on ****, with 39 others of course :)

Ok, now to add to your excellent story. For starters Braasch had played golf that morning, had a couple of beers and inhaled half a pack of ciggies. He also very definitely served at 50%.

Clisters said out here recently that she struggles to win a point of Hewitt, let alone a game. From memory Evert-Lloyd had a brother who played low level college tennis or the like and said she wouldn't even be able to beat him (Back near her prime this was) We recently had a small satellite tourney here and none of the girls would have got more than a game or two off local Dale Houston, who is now 43 but took a set of Wilander back in the 80's in the year he beat Curren to win the Aussie open.

Nadal2 07-01-2004 06:22 AM

Yeah, I don't think you will be seeing any women on the men's tour any time soon. Why bother? The prize money is almost exactly the same and you tend to get more attention (which is all that Serena wants) if you are the number 1 women's player than the number 500 or whatever men's player.

johnkidd 07-01-2004 09:35 AM

IIRC Chris Evert's brother played for Vanderbilt

JohnThomas1 07-04-2004 02:18 AM

Sorry Data i see in the other thread you had already talked about the beers, ciggies and golf.

Metzler 01-29-2005 03:19 PM

Karsten Braasch vs. Serena and Venus
 
These two sets have taken on legendary status, so let's get the facts straight. They were played at the Australian Open in 1998. Serena lost 6-1 and Venus lost 6-2. Braasch had dropped to 203 in the world because of an injury in 1997. He was described by Paul Fein in the book Tennis Confidential (Washington D.C. 2002-pub. by Brassey's Inc), the original source for public knowledge of these encounters, as a smoker. At no time did Fein claim that he was smoking on-court, or on the changeovers or otherwise not going all-out. I know from personal observation that Pancho Gonzalez was a heavy smoker, and the Tennis magazine profile of Marat Safin this year shows him smoking during an interview, so clearly tobacco use does not disqualify one from playing at a high level.
We've gone from the absurd idea circa the mid-70's that women could compete on the men's tour to the equally absurd idea voiced on these boards that a male 5.5 could beat the Williams sisters largely on the basis of these two sets. Should the 2004 US Open have been stopped after the first set because Hewitt was bagelled? Would that set have logically indicated that a male 5.5 could have beaten him?
Here's some more info on Braasch . http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/...yernumber=B305

Bones08 02-13-2006 10:13 PM

i'M SORRY BUT THEY WE'RE WAY DIFFERENT PLAYERS, TAKE VENUS 00-01, SERENA 02-03 AND THEY WOULD WIN AT LEAST 2 GAMES.

35ft6 02-14-2006 05:59 AM

^ What are you basing this on? If he wanted to, they would win zero games.

baseliner 02-14-2006 06:21 AM

I think LLoyd's brother played for Auburn not Vanderbilt. Could be wrong but i saw him play in the SEC tournament. He did not win and I don't think he was even #1 on his team. I do remember Chris saying when she was #1 that she couldn't beat her own brother--Think his name was John.

laschutz 07-18-2007 02:15 PM

william sisters vs Men, help me with my point!
 
okay, so i'm at work the other day arguing with these idiots who don't know anything about tennis, onlyplayed it during p.e.in high school, and when the william sisters name came up,one of them said that he thought the william sisters could possibly beat like "the number 20 ranked man?! are you fricking kidding me i told him? they couldn't beat the number 200 ranked man, they couldn't beat the ncaa men's champ, and they couldn't beat the top 18 under junior u.s. champ either!

i've been myself playing since i was 9, played in high school and college,read every tennis magazine for 30 years now, watch every tennis tournament on tv, have been to many pro tournaments in person,i've taught tennis at summer camps (i'm not a certified pro, but i could be if i wanted to) and consider myself a amateur tennis historian, and these idiots still 1)couldn't believe me 2) said it was just my opinion and their entitled to their opinion 3) and just because i knew tennis history didn't make me a tennis expert? huh !!

i gave them the reasons why in terms of yes the williams sisters hit their serve for instance as hard as many of the men, but guess what there are probably 50 or more guys who can serve the ball just as hard, so when the sisters serve to a guy he could return it, where as what if any of these men serve to the sisters? also, men hit their groundstrokes harder and faster, since their naturally stronger,

i gave them historic background matches even such as: in the 1920's tilden def lenglen 6-0, in the 1950's maureen connolly practice against men to make her better and that in an article published in the new york times she said she lost the other day to a local pro that no one had ever heard of, in chris evert's autobiography she wrote when she was number 1 she got beat easily by her younger brother who only played college tennis, in 1993 when an over the hill j.connors played a soon to be retired from singles navratilova he gave her the doubles alleys and only 1 serve for himself and he still killed her, i even described the whole king vs riggs and riggs vs court matches and why the outcomes ( and yeah, i don't sound like a tennis expert?!!!), i told them go on any tennis website message board and ask how the william sisters would do against men and 100 people who know tennis (former and current players, judges, commentators would agree with me!) their answer was well until the day that they play against a man then everyone i just mentioned is just their opinion!!!!! well, when the heck does an opinion become a fact then? especially since this event will never happen?

they countered with the william sisters hit the ball and are more athletic than the women i mentioned ( evert,connolly,etc) which i agreed but guess what men today also hit the ball harder than men in previous eras so the power disparity is still there! i don't know if these guys are just stupid, stubborn or both? the one guy said " let's say i'm a car expert and i say your honda civic is the best car in the world would you automatically agree with me? i said " well, if you know about cars then i do, give me data and reasoning and others agreed with you then yes, i would say your right!" his reply?: well, your more trusting than more people.huh?. one of the men whose black said " well years ago they used to say black people were inferior to white people and we know that's not true! HUH? what does that have to do with what i/we were discussing, i told him "well, that was caused by stupid loser white racist who wanted to promote their own ideology.

they really cracked up when i told them years ago when i played in high school ( i was top 16 in the state of of illinois and st.louis all area team) and during when i played in college that i could have HIT with the william sisters, they fell off their chairs then! what the heck, i told them you don't know how good i was or how hard i could hit the ball back then, could i have beaten them of course not, could i get a game off them? if i was lucky, but i COULD rally with them, they didn't believe that either!!

so basically the argument ended with my opinion and their opinion and their entitled to it, which i thought " even if it's wrong". i said finally the only men the william sisters would be competive with is if they played the 18 under u.s. junior boy champ and i would still go with him winning!!sorry to go on and on but somebody help me out here, what else could i have said to prove my point?

GS 07-18-2007 02:27 PM

You should of googled 'Williams Braasch' beforehand and learned that back in 1998 at the Australian Open, the sisters bragged that they could beat any male ranked around 200, so Karsten Braasch (ranked 203) took the challenge after playing 18 holes of golf, downing a few beers and having a cigarette. He easily beat Serena 6-1 and then Venus 6-2. Later he said he was only half-trying. The sisters then mouthed off and said they could beat any guy ranked around 350....

socalstar 07-18-2007 02:31 PM

the womens game is so different, a junior whose only ranked in the top 10 in socal recently beat sharapova 6-2

Rpp 07-18-2007 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalstar (Post 1600790)
the womens game is so different, a junior whose only ranked in the top 10 in socal recently beat sharapova 6-2

Youngsters are tanking sometimes, otherwise I cannot understand ITF Top10 Junior losing two games to Sharapova.
This discussion have been here many many times before.

socalstar 07-18-2007 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rpp (Post 1600804)
Youngsters are tanking sometimes, otherwise I cannot understand ITF Top10 Junior losing two games to Sharapova.
This discussion have been here many many times before.

i said socal not ITF

socalstar 07-18-2007 02:38 PM

hes also in the 16's

Lleytian3 07-18-2007 03:14 PM

That is why i do not like the william sisters, they mouth off to much

scoville jenkins is rank i think 651th in the world, and i think he can beat both of the william sister easily

MEAC_ALLAMERICAN 07-18-2007 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lleytian3 (Post 1600926)
That is why i do not like the william sisters, they mouth off to much

scoville jenkins is rank i think 651th in the world, and i think he can beat both of the william sister easily

Have they recently "mouth off" about playing or beating any men?

saram 07-18-2007 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GS (Post 1600774)
You should of googled 'Williams Braasch' beforehand and learned that back in 1998 at the Australian Open, the sisters bragged that they could beat any male ranked around 200, so Karsten Braasch (ranked 203) took the challenge after playing 18 holes of golf, downing a few beers and having a cigarette. He easily beat Serena 6-1 and then Venus 6-2. Later he said he was only half-trying. The sisters then mouthed off and said they could beat any guy ranked around 350....

hilarious...just hilarious....thanks for the great info!;)

vsgut 07-18-2007 06:50 PM

What your buds do not understand is how heavy of a ball the guys hit. I remember a few years back J Mac/Steffi played Serena/??? in Wimbledon mixed and Mac hit her a kick serve. She got ate up by the serve and had to deflect it with her hand.

I saw Steve Bryan when he was #1 16 in Texas beat Navatrilova when she was still top 5 beat her 6-1.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse