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-   -   Stats for 1984 USO SF (Lendl-Cash) (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=217556)

Moose Malloy 08-25-2008 09:56 AM

Stats for 1984 USO SF (Lendl-Cash)
 
Lendl d Cash 3-6 6-3 6-4 6-7(5) 7-6(4)

Lendl was 24, Cash 19.

Lendl was the #2 seed, Cash was seeded 15.

Cash upset the #4 seed, Wilander, in the QF.

my stats:

Cash had 37 non service winners: 5 fh, 4 bh, 8 fhv, 15 bhv, 5 ov
Lendl had 36: 21 fh, 10 bh, 2 fhv, 1 bhv, 2 ov

Winners by set:
Cash: 8, 3, 5, 11, 10
Lendl: 4, 3, 4, 13, 12

Lendl had 7 aces, 5 doubles
Cash had 9 aces, 5 doubles

Cash was 92 of 163 on 1st serves, or 56%
Lendl was 85 of 162, or 52%

Cash had 51 unreturned serves, of which I judged 7 to be service winners
Lendl had 42 unreturned serves, of which I judged 7 to be service winners

Cash was 3 of 10 on break points, Lendl 4 of 10.

Lendl had 26 passing shot winners, 18 of them forehands
Cash had 1 passing shot winner, a forehand

At 4-5 in the 5th, Lendl had a match point on Cash's serve, & made a return error.

Cash held for 5-5, broke for 6-5 & had a match point on his serve. He made a 1st serve on that point but Lendl saved match point with a great running forehand lob.

CBS stats:

at 2-1 in the 5th, they had Lendl making 17 unforced errors, Cash 41.

Net pts at 1-0 in the 5th: Lendl was 7/8, Cash was 58/92.

here is an excerpt from SI on the match:

Quote:

Having beaten Cash twice on grass, Lendl knew that Cash sometimes goes hours without driving his backhand. He flicks it but with little topspin, so the result is, said Lendl , "very flat, very strange." Cash also needs to learn how to put away a volley. Though terrifically quick and acrobatic at net, his first volley, especially off the forehand wing, is more of a push than a decisive punch. This inability to sting volleys cost him many key points in Lendl 's dramatic 3-6, 6-3, 6-4, 6-7, 7-6 semifinal victory.

After Cash won the first set, Lendl picked up his service percentage and rolled into the lead. At 6-5 in the fourth set, Cash had double set point, but he made four unforced errors, slugging out as always. In the tiebreaker he led 5-3, but was caught at 5-all. Cash then was presented a gift when Lendl practically whiffed on a setup forehand and then lofted a return 15 rows back in the stands. Suddenly, the match was even.

This back and forth, Czech-Cash transaction proceeded through the fifth set. Ever the gambler, Cash hit a huge hook on his second serve at 4-5, 30-all. It missed—match point for Lendl . However, Lendl netted a backhand. Cash held, broke for 6-5 and reached his own match point, but Lendl converted Cash's tentative short volley into a lunging lob to the baseline to save his neck. Lendl finally took control in the tiebreaker by winning the last four points. Immediately thereafter, Cash hurled his racket into the stands, earning a well-deserved $2,000 fine. If the racket had hit anyone Cash would have been out a lot more cash.
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...88/3/index.htm

vive le beau jeu ! 08-25-2008 01:42 PM

Quote:

If the racket had hit anyone Cash would have been out a lot more cash.
:)

without having seen it, i tought it was a great match... but reading this, it seems that it was a choking contest !

krosero 08-25-2008 07:00 PM

Some notes of my own on the match.

Lendl played 9 semifinals at the U.S. Open and lost only in 1991, to Stefan Edberg. The remaining ones took him to 8 straight U.S. Open finals from 1982-89. His defeated SF opponents were McEnroe, Arias, Cash, Connors twice, Edberg once, and Agassi two years in a row. He defeated them all in straight sets, except for the four-set wins against Agassi and this match against Cash. Had Cash won his match point, he would have prevented Lendl’s record run of consecutive USO finals.

I had never heard about any kind of controversy associated with the match and its result; I had always simply heard that it was a great match. But Cash may have been cheated of an ace that would have given him a second match point, on his serve, at 6-5 in the fifth. He was close to being enraged when his hard serve down the middle was called wide. He went on to lose the game on a rare miss off his backhand volley, a stroke that also failed him once during the tiebreak and again on the last point of the match. He was clearly still thinking about the call. He had shouted at the center service linesman upon losing his serve, clearly blaming the man for losing his chance to win.

CBS did not replay the serve, so it’s not easy to tell. But slowing it down by 7x on my DVD, the serve does appear like it could have landed wide. So I don’t think you can say that Cash was truly robbed of the match; the call was too close to say that. Even if he had been, he indisputably let his emotions get the better of him, and could not get the call out of his mind. He seemed afterwards no longer to be in the same efficient and deadly state of mind.

Lendl’s behavior was a great contrast, even compared against Lendl’s own general record. At one point in the second set, I think, he got a clearly bad call at the baseline. He took his time in thinking up a protest. Then he approached the chair and said that this was the second bad call from this linesman; he offered that Cash had gotten a bad call, too, and that keeping the linesman in the match would cause trouble one way or the other. It was golden behavior for Lendl, and maybe the most diplomatic and fair-minded protest I’ve ever seen from a player.

True, the stakes were nothing compared to the Cash controversy. But the contrast in temperament is worth mentioning, all the same – particularly because late in the fifth set, Lendl did again protest a call with great calmness.

The announcers noted that Lendl was more confident since his French Open win. Newk said he had never seen Lendl so emotionally fired up as in the final tiebreak.

Cash looks as good in this match as he did in 1987 in most respects, though I don't think his forehand volley was as good as in his Wimbledon victory.

He choked, I think, at break point on Lendl’s serve at 5-6 in the fourth set; Lendl did nothing really special to hold then. Lendl, at that point, was having his own problems on the mental side of the equation: the announcers thought that he was affected by the crowd’s turning against him.


Some stats:

Each of the first three sets had only one break, which is a testament to the quality of play. The fourth set had no breaks (though perhaps Cash should have broken Lendl at 5-6). The fifth opened with two consecutive service breaks and closed the same way.

From his opening service game of the match, Lendl held serve 19 consecutive times through the end of the fourth set. The only higher previous streak I know of is Wilander’s 20 straight holds against McEnroe in St. Louis – a match in which the absence of tiebreaks made for long sets in which you had to sustain your level of play, or else lose the set. This was different: Lendl sustained his level even immediately after the first, second, and third sets were over, playing with great consistency throughout. He finally lost his serve to open the fifth, throwing in two double-faults and looking, for the moment, genuinely vulnerable.

Moose Malloy 08-26-2008 09:26 AM

Quote:

From his opening service game of the match, Lendl held serve 19 consecutive times through the end of the fourth set. The only higher previous streak I know of is Wilander’s 20 straight holds against McEnroe in St. Louis –

The winners of these matches never lost serve, all had longer streaks than 20:

Sampras d Korda, '97 Wimbledon 6-4 6-3 6-7(10) 6-7(1) 6-4

Becker d Stich, '93 Wimbledon 7-5 6-7(5) 6-7(5) 6-2 6-4

Becker d Pioline, '95 Wimbledon 6-3 6-1 6-7(6) 6-7(10) 9-7

Agassi d Martin, '99 US Open Final 6-4 6-7(5) 6-7(2) 6-3 6-2

Sampras d Agassi, '01 US Open QF

Quote:

Cash looks as good in this match as he did in 1987 in most respects
I was surprised at how often he stayed back, esp in the 2nd & 3rd sets. Even Newcombe said he should be coming in more. He seemed much less sure of what strategy to use than in the '87 W final.

I didn't do net stats, but the unreturned serve numbers by set I think shows how more agressive he was in the sets he won:

11, 5, 8, 14, 13

krosero 08-26-2008 11:21 AM

Actually, Moose, now that you're bringing it up I found some old notes in which I did have a previous streak longer than Wilander's. Curren defeated Connors at the 1983 Wimbledon without losing his serve -- 21 straight holds (I haven't seen that one).

But that was on grass unlike Lendl's streak. On the other hand, it was against the best returner in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 2648467)
The winners of these matches never lost serve, all had longer streaks than 20:

Sampras d Korda, '97 Wimbledon 6-4 6-3 6-7(10) 6-7(1) 6-4

Becker d Stich, '93 Wimbledon 7-5 6-7(5) 6-7(5) 6-2 6-4

Becker d Pioline, '95 Wimbledon 6-3 6-1 6-7(6) 6-7(10) 9-7

Agassi d Martin, '99 US Open Final 6-4 6-7(5) 6-7(2) 6-3 6-2

Sampras d Agassi, '01 US Open QF

The ATP stats on Becker-Pioline are wrong; they have each player serving 20 times when in fact they served 28 times. That looks as if the fifth set is missing.

So they have Pioline winning no break points, but Becker was actually broken for the first time after holding once in the fifth set (and 21 straight times).

Strangely they also have Becker saving 0 of 4 break points rather than 4 of 4.

I remember your old thread on this record (service streaks); I'll re-open it.

oberyn 08-26-2008 12:31 PM

I'm still bitter because all I've ever seen of this match is the highlight of Lendl saving match point with a lob.

I was 11 years old and Lendl was my favorite player at the time, solely by virtue of having beaten McEnroe (whom I couldn't stand) at the French Open earlier that year.

krosero 01-27-2010 10:05 PM

Quote:

From his opening service game of the match, Lendl held serve 19 consecutive times through the end of the fourth set. The only higher previous streak I know of is Wilander’s 20 straight holds against McEnroe in St. Louis –
As I mentioned above, Curren held 21 straight against Connors at the 83W, and now I know of another one: Borg held 20 straight times against Tanner at the 1981 USO.

galain 01-28-2010 04:42 AM

That semi final day was probably the greatest day I had ever lived to that point. I had set my alarm for the wee hours of the morning and was still in the same spot hours and hours later. What a fantastic day of tennis.

I heard tell that after this match, Cash went to the locker room and destroyed every racquet he had.

jrepac 01-28-2010 01:30 PM

Lendl Cash
 
Lendl's lob against Cash that day is still burned into my memory :(

Cash really should have won that match....if only he were a tad more consistent that day....


Well, he got his revenge against Ivan in '87, I suppose!

Moose Malloy 09-16-2012 04:23 PM

here are some more stats

Cash won 70 of 93 pts on 1st serve(75%)
He won 36 of 70 on 2nd serve(51%)

13 of the 50 return errors he drew were on 2nd serve
1 of his 9 aces was a 2nd serve

He made 1st serves of 5 of the 10 break points he faced(including down match point at 4-5 in the 5th)

He was 95 of 150 at net(63%)

Lendl won 69 of 86 pts on 1st serve(80%)
He won 43 of 76 on 2nd serve(56.5%)

14 of the 44 return errors he drew were on 2nd serve

He made 1st serves on 2 of the 10 break points he faced

He was 11 of 14 at net

Quote:

I had never heard about any kind of controversy associated with the match and its result; I had always simply heard that it was a great match. But Cash may have been cheated of an ace that would have given him a second match point, on his serve, at 6-5 in the fifth. He was close to being enraged when his hard serve down the middle was called wide. He went on to lose the game on a rare miss off his backhand volley, a stroke that also failed him once during the tiebreak and again on the last point of the match. He was clearly still thinking about the call. He had shouted at the center service linesman upon losing his serve, clearly blaming the man for losing his chance to win.

CBS did not replay the serve, so it’s not easy to tell. But slowing it down by 7x on my DVD, the serve does appear like it could have landed wide. So I don’t think you can say that Cash was truly robbed of the match; the call was too close to say that. Even if he had been, he indisputably let his emotions get the better of him, and could not get the call out of his mind. He seemed afterwards no longer to be in the same efficient and deadly state of mind.
rewatching this again, I was struck by how many bad calls there were throughout the match(you could hear Cash saying something to the umpire as CBS went to commercial at 4-3 in the 5th, after Cash lost a point in which Lendl looked to hit long. Lendl gave Cash an ace early in the 4th set even though cyclops went off. later in the 4th cyclops didn't go off on a Cash serve so Cash got credited with an ace even though the serve was clearly long but the umpire didn't call it - Lendl did tell him that when it was beyond the range of cyclops its his job to call it)

By the time of Cash being 'robbed' of that ace, I imagine he was a bit on edge by the many questionable calls that both players had received & probably thought any close call was the wrong one at that point. The umpire didn't overrule once in this match.

krosero 09-19-2012 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 6903266)
here are some more stats

Cash won 70 of 93 pts on 1st serve(75%)
He won 36 of 70 on 2nd serve(51%)

13 of the 50 return errors he drew were on 2nd serve
1 of his 9 aces was a 2nd serve

He made 1st serves of 5 of the 10 break points he faced(including down match point at 4-5 in the 5th)

He was 95 of 150 at net(63%)

Lendl won 69 of 86 pts on 1st serve(80%)
He won 43 of 76 on 2nd serve(56.5%)

14 of the 44 return errors he drew were on 2nd serve

He made 1st serves on 2 of the 10 break points he faced

He was 11 of 14 at net

Nothing too surprising here, except Lendl making his first serve on only 2 of 10 break points. His success on second serve overall was decent, though I wonder whether he might have gotten in less trouble in this match if he had put some more first serves in on break points.

jaggy 09-24-2012 04:20 PM

This was when saturday was truly super

kiki 09-25-2012 03:59 AM

It is amazing Lendl's record of 8 consecutive finals at a major
Probably only the Renshaw in the 19 th century can match it

Mac reached Dallas finals 6 consecutive years, also unbelievable

krosero 09-25-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6917669)
It is amazing Lendl's record of 8 consecutive finals at a major
Probably only the Renshaw in the 19 th century can match it

Mac reached Dallas finals 6 consecutive years, also unbelievable

No streak that long by Renshaw, but Tilden made the US final 8 years in a row (1918-25).

Lendl had 9 straight years in the Masters final.

rod99 09-26-2012 12:06 PM

i saw an interview where Lendl said that he actually had the wrong grip when he hit the forehand lob to save matchpoint. said he got very lucky to win that match.

krosero 09-29-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 6903266)
here are some more stats

Cash won 70 of 93 pts on 1st serve(75%)
He won 36 of 70 on 2nd serve(51%)

13 of the 50 return errors he drew were on 2nd serve
1 of his 9 aces was a 2nd serve

He made 1st serves of 5 of the 10 break points he faced(including down match point at 4-5 in the 5th)

He was 95 of 150 at net(63%)

Lendl won 69 of 86 pts on 1st serve(80%)
He won 43 of 76 on 2nd serve(56.5%)

14 of the 44 return errors he drew were on 2nd serve

He made 1st serves on 2 of the 10 break points he faced

He was 11 of 14 at net

Just looking at points on which serve was successfully returned:

Lendl was 65% on first serve (32/49) and 51% on second (29/57).
Cash was 52% on first serve (25/48 ) and 43% on second (22/51).

krosero 09-29-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krosero (Post 2647085)
From his opening service game of the match, Lendl held serve 19 consecutive times through the end of the fourth set. The only higher previous streak I know of is Wilander’s 20 straight holds against McEnroe in St. Louis –

Quote:

Originally Posted by krosero (Post 4340444)
As I mentioned above, Curren held [22] straight against Connors at the 83W, and now I know of another one: Borg held 20 straight times against Tanner at the 1981 USO.

There are several other streaks up through 1984 that I have learned of since.


41 straight service holds by Charlie Pasarell to open his match against Pancho Gonzalez, 1969 Wimbledon, R128
Pancho himself opened with 22 straight and closed with 30 straight

22 by Hoad to open his US Pro final at Cleveland against Gonzalez in 1958
(Pancho had at least 17 himself, possibly 22 if he was unbroken in the fifth set)

21 by Schroeder to open the 1949 US final against Pancho Gonzalez
20 by Doeg to close the 1930 US final against Shields
20 by Gorman in a win over Laver in a 1971 Wimbledon quarterfinal (unbroken)
20 by McEnroe in a win over Alexander on grass in a 1979 Davis Cup semifinal (unbroken)


And one for the women:
19 by Margaret Osborne Dupont against Louis Brough Clapp to finish the 1948 US final (score was 4-6, 6-4, 15-13)

Since 1984 data is much more abundant, and I know of many service streaks higher than Lendl's.

The alltime record must by 85 straight holds by Isner and Mahut each.

Roddick held 37 straight times against Federer in the 2009 Wimbledon final.

Anyone know what Karlovic's best single-match marks might be?

We tend to think of service streaks as something that alltime great servers put together. But such records often have as much to do with the poor quality of returning, as the Isner-Mahut and Gonzalez-Pasarell matches show.

Moose Malloy 09-30-2012 06:25 AM

Quote:

Anyone know what Karlovic's best single-match marks might be?
I'm guessing in this match, 2009 Davis Cup:

Quote:

Stepanek won 6-7 (5), 7-6 (5), 7-6 (6), 6-7 (2), 16-14 in a match that lasted 5 hours, 59 minutes

Karlovic wasted four match points in the final set. Stepanek won when the 2.09-meter (6-foot-10) Croat sent a smash wide. The were only five break-point chances in the match

don't know if there were any breaks

krosero 09-30-2012 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 6927469)
I'm guessing in this match, 2009 Davis Cup:



don't know if there were any breaks

Stepanek broke twice, Karlovic just once. But there's contradictory information online. Some press reports said no one was broken till the fifth set; others that Stepanek got a break in the first set and did not break again until the end.

Each man served 39 service games, FWIW.

Stepanek might actually have a longer service streak than Karlovic, which reinforces the point that service records have a lot to do with the quality of returning. The match was on red clay yet Karlovic could only break once in 39 attempts.

Stepanek breaking only twice in 39 attempts is a totally different story, since Karlovic is unbreakable on any surface.

krosero 04-16-2013 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 2645575)
Lendl had 7 aces, 5 doubles
Cash had 9 aces, 5 doubles

Cash was 92 of 163 on 1st serves, or 56%
Lendl was 85 of 162, or 52%

Cash had 51 unreturned serves, of which I judged 7 to be service winners
Lendl had 42 unreturned serves, of which I judged 7 to be service winners

Lendl served on 162 points and 49 serves did not come back: 30.2%
Cash served on 163 points and 60 serves did not come back: 36.8%

In their Wimbledon final Cash held an even larger lead (49% to 27%).


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