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-   -   How bad are these women? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=2337)

Ballmachine 03-31-2004 09:53 AM

How bad are these women?
 
I'm watching Venus vs. Dementiava right now, and neither one of them can hit a second serve at all. They are so bad it is pathetic. Why is that all of these women can hit awesome groundstrokes, but can't serve well? My serve, both first and second, is so much better than these two, (and probably every other women on the ATP tour, except possibly Serena and Justine) and I am just a weekend warrior. Why don't the women work on this? It is only the most important shot in the game. I just don't get it. Don't even get me started on volleys.

borisboris 03-31-2004 09:56 AM

:o Elena 2nd = PATHETIC But she is beautiful & most stunning in person.

AAAA 03-31-2004 10:31 AM

Re: How bad are these women?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballmachine
My serve, both first and second, is so much better than these two, (and probably every other women on the ATP tour, except possibly Serena and Justine) and I am just a weekend warrior.

I guess that makes you a real man. :?

Ballmachine 03-31-2004 10:35 AM

It has nothing to do with being a "real man." I was just commenting on how pathetic it is that a person that plays once a week, and has had no formal training, can have a better serve than the top professional athletes that we see on television.

@wright 03-31-2004 10:36 AM

They don't practice it enough obviously. Venus hit the fastest serve ever in the women's game, so obviously she has NO excuse not to have a blistering 2nd serve. I'm not sure I'd agree with it being the most important shot in the game, but it would definitely make them much better players. I thought they were both volleying alright today, but I didn't get to see a whole lot of the match. Elena was hitting great though.

chad shaver 03-31-2004 10:39 AM

Thing that gets me is how you ALWAYS know where the 2nd serves are going. Dementieva, for example, can apparently only hit her second serve out wide in the deuce court, and normally only down the middle in the ad court.

Seems to me that they disregard one of the most important, most commonly discussed strategies in tennis.

Free_Martha 03-31-2004 11:03 AM

Women's tennis is so pathetic I can't imagine why anyone would want to watch it. Without Justine and Kim, the women at Nasdaq are truly hideous.

AAAA 03-31-2004 11:07 AM

BM, You're comparing yourself to top Women athletes. I'll assume you're male. If you were a female that plays once a week, and has had no formal training Would you serve as well as either of those two players?

Talk to any expert on sports biomechanics and they will tell you the typical female physique is much less suited for hitting powerful serves than the typical male physique.

Also ask a doctor how physically debilitating periods can be for many women. [/i]

Ballmachine 03-31-2004 11:10 AM

Sorry AAAA, it has absolutely nothing to do with a person's sex. I'm not talking about power. I'm talking about technique. I'm talking about the ability to hit flat, slice, and kick serves. I'm talking about the ability to hit the ball with various speeds and spins to different parts of the service box. A man or a women can do that. If Serena and Justine can do it, and they are women, why can't the other players on the WTA tour.

AAAA 03-31-2004 11:26 AM

BM, the person's sex is the relevant point here. You need a certain amount of strength to hit any serve effectively. SW and JHH are athletically way above the competition and are the exception. They have the strength and athleticism while the rest don't.

Ballmachine 03-31-2004 11:56 AM

I'm sorry AAAA, this conversation is obviously above your intellectual level. Look back at my last post a few times and try to figure it out, if not, then maybe somebody else can chime in and help you out.

BreakPoint 03-31-2004 12:01 PM

The worst was watching Dementiava hit consecutive groundstrokes into the corners standing almost near the service line which are really approach shots but NEVER following those shots into the net! What is with that? Why are these women so afraid of coming into the net? She hits great and punishing approach shots into the corners and then just stands there on the service line. All she needs to do is take two more steps forward and put away the easy volley off of the floating returns coming back. Why are these women so aggresive from the baseline but show no aggression whatsoever coming into the net to finish off the point? Why do they make life so much more difficult for themselves? :? :roll:

Ballmachine 03-31-2004 12:06 PM

BreakPoint, the reason they don't come to the net is the same reason that they don't serve effectively. They just don't practice these aspects of the game from a very early age. Coaches and parents are more fixated on groundstrokes, than on serves and volleys. I don't understand why this is the case, but it probably has to do with competing at a young age. Kids stick with what is easiest for them to do and produces the best results. Really, they sacrifice the long-term for short-term success. If the women spent as much time practicing approach shots, volleys, and serves as they do on groundstrokes, they would be much better players when they reach the pro level.

edge 03-31-2004 12:11 PM

And that's why Martina Navratilova would kill the girls with her all court game. None of these girls have a plan "B" game. They just hit groundies and that's it.

Camilio Pascual 03-31-2004 12:24 PM

AAAA is right, there is a huge amount of difference in upper body strength between men and women. The kind of strength that allows one to hit effective kick serves and other serves with lots of spin.

The tennis guy 03-31-2004 12:51 PM

On serve, the problem is they didn't develope in early age because they were too young. Once bad technique developed, it is extremely hard to change on pro level. Venus is a prime example, Elena is another. I don't believe she isn't practicing her serve. Serena's serve is just natural. JHH used to have weak second serve, but her technique was sound thus easier for her to improve.

As of coming to the net, don't just belittle the women, the men on ATP don't come to the net either. They don't develope when they are young. When they are older, at higher level Volley is difficult because its technique is completely different from any other stroke. Plus, they just don't have the instinct at the net.

So, coach should focus a little more on these two aspects of tennis when the players are still young.

cantaloupe 03-31-2004 03:32 PM

actually thats not true,

Theres a girl that comes for 2 weeks every year and plays with her uncle (who is one heck of a player himself), and she can absolutely CRUSH the ball on the serve, and has a snake for a second serve, kicks up absolutel huge. OF course she has a scolarship to play tennis in the states, but what you say about women having no serve does not apply to this girl, no sir.

I played her once, because her partner was late, and she wanted to practise her serve. Well to make a long story short i crushed her first seve into the corner, but for 20 mins after that i could get one serve back, and I'm a decent 4.5 player myself who usually reads serves well.

VTL 03-31-2004 03:56 PM

yeah, girls can serve fine.. but you may not know this but a girl that doesn't play tennis wouldn't serve very well.

BTW, how many free points does venis gets w/ her first serve, because maybe it would be better if she just hit 2nd serves the whole time. Just a random thought w/o any logical backing..

pound cat 03-31-2004 04:32 PM

The first set and a half of the Ven-Dem match must have set a record for inept, error ridden, most number of double faults, shanked balls, & breaks from both players in WTA top player history. It looks as if Serena is miles ahead of them all (& after 8 months off!!) There's no point analysing the play. It was just bad tennis. Sort of like the tennis Kiefer played against Coria. Great TV tennis to-day!

Ballmachine 03-31-2004 05:17 PM

I have played with many women that could serve well on both first and second serves. Again, I'm talking not just about speed, but placement, spin, kick, etc. That's why I posted in the first place. Why is it that most of the WTA tour players have terrible serves? It just doesn't make sense, when these women have played tennis their whole lives, and have practiced so many hours and hit so many balls. I just can't figure it out.


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