Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Classic Racquet Talk (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   Kneissl White Star (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=246221)

plasma 02-18-2009 12:11 AM

Kneissl White Star
 

:twisted:

jimbo333 02-18-2009 06:55 PM

Plasma, this is such a great racquet:)

As I mentioned before, only have a couple the Lendl and the Twin, is there a difference with the others?

I love hitting the GTX when I get a chance. What would you say is the difference between the GTX and the White Stars?

Oh and if anyone has any of these, really like to buy some, great prices paid etc:)

Mick 02-18-2009 07:19 PM

i have another kind of kneissl white star racquets :)
when i use it to play against people who use the modern racquets, i don't feel i am at a disadvantage at all.


plasma 02-18-2009 08:31 PM

kneissls play like made in Belgium Pro Ones drenched in Merlot (like a fine tuned stratavarius making love to a Les Paul), gtx's play stiff like a prostaff. Total opposite ends of the Spectrum. Only the mold is similar. unless its the red star pro(boron), which is stiff and somewhat similar to the gtx:


I am also after many more kneissls, nothing gives me as much joy to hit with....

the first generation were all white, after that came the all white with the blue and green dovetail, followed by the classic red and blue dovetail. I would love to find the super pro vario or the bluestar pro....the pro-t has lots of flex like the kneissl, but feels rubbery and modern, in contrast to the sweet natural organic powerful yet humble yogic kneissl pro masters.

khw72004 02-18-2009 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 3144870)
i have another kind of kneissl white star racquets :)
when i use it to play against people who use the modern racquets, i don't feel i am at a disadvantage at all.



Those are nice mono shafts. And the damper too.

plasma 02-18-2009 10:50 PM

isn't Mr. Bill hangin a bit lo there??? thought he was supposed to be at the intersection of cross and main, not on the main tracks....I believe white star mid (monoshaft) was 98???ish, from what I can tell all white kneissls before the aero have similar composition and superb feel and performance...

Mick 02-19-2009 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plasma (Post 3145366)
isn't Mr. Bill hangin a bit lo there??? thought he was supposed to be at the intersection of cross and main, not on the main tracks....I believe white star mid (monoshaft) was 98???ish, from what I can tell all white kneissls before the aero have similar composition and superb feel and performance...

i use the dampener just for decoration, so i don't know exactly where it should be :)
my racquets are the white star "BIG" and the "BIG" are 98 sq-in. they didn't specify this on the frame but I measured it by lining it up against the prince precision mono and they had about the same headsize. I have seen the "MID" version for sale at the auction site and the headsize for the "MID" has got to be smaller.

retrowagen 02-19-2009 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plasma (Post 3145366)
from what I can tell all white kneissls before the aero have similar composition and superb feel and performance...

Similar architecture (grip on frame shaft), but different composition and vastly different feel and performance across the White Star model range.

I used the White Star Pro Masters as a ranked junior in Europe from 1984-1986, then the Masters 10 (same racket beneath the paint) through early 1988. During this span of time, I also had their model line available to me to see what would make me happiest.

The 10% larger than standard Pro Masters/Masters 10 was a G/F/K composite with hollow core; really there was nothing quite like it except for the same-mold, different comp Adidas Lendl GTX Pro (which was a heavier G/F comp) and the later Lendl GTX Pro-T (which was the same comp as the GTX Pro, just with refreshed graphics for the '85 season). The Adidas frames were awful for S/V play, but were good serve cannons and excellent for groundstrokes, if one had enough time to set up properly. By comparison, the Kneissl WSPM/M10 was lighter and had a more lively feel - less stiff than the Adidas - and with its dense string pattern was pinpoint-accurate and could be volleyed with, if the player wasn't lazy or used bad technique.

The Adi Lendl GTX Pro was a ubiquitous frame in Germany in the mid-80's. Lots of ranked juniors used them, including Claudia Kohde-Kilsch and Boris Becker. I tried them for part of a season, but I wasn't big or strong enough to operate the L3 without getting elbow problems, so I switched back to the Kneissl and was quite comfortable and did OK.

The White Star Twin was a G/F composite, 20% larger than standard size. It was basically Kneissl's attempt to make a Rossignol F200, down to the head size, two-fisted grip, and flex. Apart from the Blue Star aluminum frames, if had to be Kneissl's flexiest frame of that era. I kept one for a while, played tournaments in Hamburg and Norway with it, but even on clay felt it was not as good an all-round weapon as the WSPM.

The WS Mid (later Masters 30) was a 30% larger than standard sized mid, G/F composite, flexier overall than the WSPM/M10 and with a more open string pattern. A fun racket to play, lighter than the WSPM it was their offering at the time for the dedicated S/V player as it lacked some automatic "oomph" off the ground. Milan Srejber used it for a while on tour. When Kneissl introduced the interesting Aero 20 (in 1984) and Aero 30 (in 1985), the WS Mid/M30 basically became redundant, although it was available until 1987.

The WS Big was aimed at recreational players and was a 40% larger than standard "oversize" (now considered a midplus). This again was a G/F comp, flexier than the others (except perhaps the Twin). Initially (1980-1982ish) it was a monoshaft frame, as was the first iteration of the WS Mid, but from 1983-1985 it was a split-shaft. Kneissl dropped this frame when they switched their graphics and naming for the 1986 line, hoping players who liked this frame would move over to the Aero 30C.

The Masters 25 should be included, as it replaced the WS Twin in 1986 with a new mold, slightly larger in the head and stiffer overall, without the big, blocky shoulders of the Twin. However, it didn't make much of an impression as it was discontinued after two years.

Kneissl made some great frames. In 1985, the White Star Pro Masters was used in more grand slam finals than any other model of frame on tour. I still find it disappointing that economic considerations and the widebody craze of the late 80's effectively killed Kneissl's involvement in the tennis market. Although their newer models (Muster specials) have had their place, they are nothing like the originals.

plasma 02-19-2009 01:09 PM

the white star twin and lendl pro (or masters) really capture that wonderful feel. Retrowagon said it perfectly, the gtx was a shrunk down yamaha secret, or keubler profile...stiff! The brilliance of kneissl is the feel, feeling every millimeter of the racquet resonate and respond, brilliant!!!! their closed throat monoshafts were interesting. Still looking for headsize on the mid monoshaft. Rumors say that lendl pj'ed kneissl 20's as opposed to using the adidas.

Virginia 02-19-2009 04:58 PM

I have the same mono White Star as Mick, only mine is the Mid version.

plasma 02-19-2009 07:05 PM

please Virginia, what is the headsize? would absolutely love some pics as well.....Heard about your neighbors drought, heartbreaking, the stories of Aussies left with nothing but the burnt clothes on their back is sad. 12 year drought sucks too...Wish I could drop everything and help...

Virginia 02-20-2009 12:34 AM

The headsize is less than 85si - hard to measure exactly, because of its shape.

Yes, the fires in Australia have been absolutely devastating and they think around half of them were lit deliberately!

Kirko 02-20-2009 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plasma (Post 3142440)

:twisted:

that was an awesome frame!!!!!!!!! yes, the one Lendl used and Curren, it sure seemed like the white star had more inate power and feel than the addias GTX. what an astonishing collection !!!!! just Great!!!!

plasma 02-20-2009 12:48 AM

please provide some links so that we can research this. as well as kneissl pics. Under 85 but bigger than a kneissl? do yours have the blue and green dovetail graphic or is it blue and red dovetail??? don't you love that kneissl feel? I play with a ps 85...the kneissls have about 5 times as much feel!!! like playing tennis with a viola or violin...

Kirkos comment on innate power and feel of white Star vs. gtx was accurate.....Kevin Curren vs. Boris Becker....wow....the kneissl vs. the Puma Winner...

Captain Haddock 02-20-2009 06:58 PM

So the Red Star Pro (with boron) that you have pictured here was different in its composition from the regular Red Star (grey with red pinstripe cosmetics and red grommets), right? The Red Star Mids I had were VERY flexible, at least as much as a Rossignol F200. The one in your picture looks so great!
What about breakage problems with 1980s Kneissls? The hollow core design was not the most durable, apparently.

retrowagen 02-20-2009 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabrice Leroy (Post 3150903)
What about breakage problems with 1980s Kneissls? The hollow core design was not the most durable, apparently.


I only noticed two problems during everyday use of these frames for several years, when they were new:

The first came from throwing them on hardcourts on my bad days.

The other was that I preferred mine strung at tensions of 2.3 Kg (5 pounds) over the manufacturer's suggested limit... And within a few hours of play, the spaces of frame between the grommet holes in the upper hoop would collapse. :oops:

plasma 02-21-2009 12:24 AM

my white stars are strung with poly, waaay above the reccomended tension....never any problems...I beleive these are tougher than ps 85's, 200g's and f200's combined...only thing soft about kneissl is their touch, and that's by design...

Captain Haddock 02-22-2009 08:42 AM

Retrowagen, weren't the Aero models also available in blue cosmetics? I remember an Aero 30 C with light blue paint. The Aero line was an interesting move from Kneissl, considering that their previous models were rather bulky in comparison. In my recollection, the Aero models felt less solid and had a lot of lateral flex in the head.
About the demise of Kneissl in the widebody era: didn't Bruguera win his first French Open with an unmarked Kneissl semi-widebody? Of course the brand did not adjust well to the widebody craze and disappeared soon after.
The 2007 White Star are very different from the originals, apart from the white paint. The extended length, Head-shaped grip, and the overall shape of the frame are just too different. They're still decent frames, though.

vsbabolat 02-22-2009 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabrice Leroy (Post 3155361)
Retrowagen, weren't the Aero models also available in blue cosmetics? I remember an Aero 30 C with light blue paint. The Aero line was an interesting move from Kneissl, considering that their previous models were rather bulky in comparison. In my recollection, the Aero models felt less solid and had a lot of lateral flex in the head.
About the demise of Kneissl in the widebody era: didn't Bruguera win his first French Open with an unmarked Kneissl semi-widebody? Of course the brand did not adjust well to the widebody craze and disappeared soon after.
The 2007 White Star are very different from the originals, apart from the white paint. The extended length, Head-shaped grip, and the overall shape of the frame are just too different. They're still decent frames, though.

Thats right I remember the White Star Aero 20C and 30C or Club were a pastel blue with a pink grommet spoiler.

retrowagen 02-22-2009 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabrice Leroy (Post 3155361)
Retrowagen, weren't the Aero models also available in blue cosmetics? I remember an Aero 30 C with light blue paint. The Aero line was an interesting move from Kneissl, considering that their previous models were rather bulky in comparison. In my recollection, the Aero models felt less solid and had a lot of lateral flex in the head.
About the demise of Kneissl in the widebody era: didn't Bruguera win his first French Open with an unmarked Kneissl semi-widebody? Of course the brand did not adjust well to the widebody craze and disappeared soon after.
The 2007 White Star are very different from the originals, apart from the white paint. The extended length, Head-shaped grip, and the overall shape of the frame are just too different. They're still decent frames, though.

Fabrice, you have a good memory. The Aero 30C (Club) was pastel blue. The Aero 20C was pastel grey with pinkish grommet and slot cover.

The triangular cross-section of these frames wasn't as torsionally solid as the more conventional, traditional White Star "box beam." Nevertheless, the Aero series were interesting frames. Matt Anger, Heinz Gunthardt, and Andreas Maurer used the Aero 20 on the pro tour for a while. I'm not sure which Kneissl model Brugera used in his first Roland Garros win.

It seems like the newer generation of the Kneissls were almost clones of the Head PT630, thanks to a certain Herr Muster being catered to.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse