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-   -   How would a modern 4.5 player fare against Evert in her prime? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=283536)

Claudius 08-25-2009 06:12 PM

How would a modern 4.5 player fare against Evert in her prime?
 
Modern 4.5 player with modern racquet and strings vs. Evert in her prime with her equipment of choice. Who wins?

My opinion is that a strong 4.5 could easily blow away Evert.

darthpwner 08-25-2009 06:30 PM

Nah ******** I think Evert would win. Evert is too consistent for 4.5s. High ranked juniors nationally in the 16s boys and male college players could beat Evert though

makinao 08-25-2009 06:30 PM

I remember an Tennis magazine article back in the 70's by one of the male writers. On the urging of his buddies (who thought similarly to you) he challenged a US ranked player (Beth Norton). He was probably a 4.5 club player from his description. He lost in straight sets, managing to win only a couple of games.

I remember his observations included 1) how consistently deep her shots were, so he could not attack, 2) how easily she returned his strong 1st serves, and 3) how she compared his best shots to another woman pro ranked lower than her.

Evert would probably have bageled the same guy. Even now at 55, I think she could beat a 4.5 male.

Kick_It 08-25-2009 06:31 PM

At first I thought someone on the high end of 4.5 might be able to take a set from her. The more I think about it - that would be exceptionally lucky. I am clear they would not win the match; especially against her in her prime.

IMO - you can't discount a multi-Grand Slam title holder's mental abilities, strategy, execution, footwork, and fitness against someone who would be lucky to qualify for a satellite circuit event.

Today's equipment favors a baseline game; she was the role model of that game for many players.

ubermeyer 08-25-2009 06:32 PM

lol, this is stupid of course evert wins

StuckInMalibu 08-25-2009 06:33 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE3v3sbSJJI

Here's video of Evert. Can 4.5 players top that?

Claudius 08-25-2009 06:39 PM

Hmm...So a 4.5 who can consistently hit 100+ mph serves and big heavy groundstrokes can't beat her?

Maybe it's just me but I think a 4.5 should handle her easily.

Think about it. All of her serves will be attacked. How the heck is she gonna return a 100+ mph serve? Can she really defend against heavy groundstrokes that kick with topspin?

I think the 4.5 player would win relatively easily in two sets.


Remember that this is a modern 4.5 player who may use a babolat aeropro drive with polyester strings and such.

Claudius 08-25-2009 06:45 PM

Now I know the video says otherwise, but I think this is a very strong 4.5 player. Now does Evert have any chance against this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtovf6qcLf8

or these guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QngtA-6m3zQ

Claudius 08-25-2009 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuckInMalibu (Post 3851654)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE3v3sbSJJI

Here's video of Evert. Can 4.5 players top that?

Absolutely, the players in my videos could.

Kick_It 08-25-2009 06:50 PM

A strong serve might win points off her, but do you honestly think a 4.5 is going to serve better against her than Navratilova did?

Do you think someone who won all the titles Chris did can't place her serve _extremely_ well? I can ace people with a well placed 60 Mph 2nd serve - so clearly pace isn't everything.

A 4.5 is going to beat Chris with groundstrokes? No way.

Claudius 08-25-2009 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kick_It (Post 3851730)
A strong serve might win points off her, but do you honestly think a 4.5 is going to serve better against her than Navratilova did?

Do you think someone who won all the titles Chris did can't place her serve _extremely_ well? I can ace people with a well placed 60 Mph 2nd serve - so clearly pace isn't everything.

A 4.5 is going to beat Chris with groundstrokes? No way.


Evert's groundstrokes aren't that penetrating. They're just consistent. A 4.5 can crush all of them. Btw, a 60 mph serve can be crushed regardless of where it's placed..

makinao 08-25-2009 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 3851684)
Hmm...So a 4.5 who can consistently hit 100+ mph serves and big heavy groundstrokes can't beat her?
snipped.....
Remember that this is a modern 4.5 player who may use a babolat aeropro drive with polyester strings and such.

Are you a 4.5? If you are, then you are giving yourself too much credit. But then, the only way to find out is to actually play a match, right? So go challenge Evert to a 3 set match, then come back to us. Oh, and be sure to tell the truth :-)

Kick_It 08-25-2009 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 3851741)
Evert's groundstrokes aren't that penetrating. They're just consistent. A 4.5 can crush all of them. Btw, a 60 mph serve can be crushed regardless of where it's placed..

I looked at the UCLA club video you posted. I noticed 2 things at least a few point sequences into it:

1) 1st serve percentage is low - I think 0 for the first 3 points. What good is a 100+ mph serve if it doesn't go in?

2) At a point in each of the points - at least 3 or 4 shots into a rally - their shots don't penetrate either - they're bouncing around the service line or shorter.

I don't know how someone who has both their feet outside the singles line on the ad side of the court - especially if they're moving off the court - can crush a 60 Mph serve hit down the T. If you hit into their strike zone - sure. Do you think Chris is that stupid?

Claudius 08-25-2009 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makinao (Post 3851782)
Are you a 4.5? If you are, then you are giving yourself too much credit. But then, the only way to find out is to actually play a match, right? So go challenge Evert to a 3 set match, then come back to us. Oh, and be sure to tell the truth :-)

She's 55....no point in playing her now.

Claudius 08-25-2009 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kick_It (Post 3851790)
I looked at the UCLA club video you posted. I noticed 2 things at least a few point sequences into it:

1) 1st serve percentage is low - I think 0 for the first 3 points. What good is a 100+ mph serve if it doesn't go in?

2) At a point in each of the points - at least 3 or 4 shots into a rally - their shots don't penetrate either - they're bouncing around the service line or shorter.

I don't know how someone who has both their feet outside the singles line on the ad side of the court - especially if they're moving off the court - can crush a 60 Mph serve hit down the T. If you hit into their strike zone - sure. Do you think Chris is that stupid?

A 60 mph serve is junk. I don't care what kinda spin you put on it nor where it is placed. Hit a 60 mph serve and anyone who could accelerate the racquet head will crush it every single time.

raiden031 08-25-2009 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 3851684)
Hmm...So a 4.5 who can consistently hit 100+ mph serves and big heavy groundstrokes can't beat her?

Maybe it's just me but I think a 4.5 should handle her easily.

Think about it. All of her serves will be attacked. How the heck is she gonna return a 100+ mph serve? Can she really defend against heavy groundstrokes that kick with topspin?

I think the 4.5 player would win relatively easily in two sets.


Remember that this is a modern 4.5 player who may use a babolat aeropro drive with polyester strings and such.

After playing against a couple 4.5s I've discovered that they would not stand a chance of beating any WTA pro. 4.5 is certainly good and better than me, but as far as skills, they generally don't seem as good as I thought they would be. If I play my best I can hit winners against them and even win a couple rallies and games (if I serve well also), its just that in a match I don't get enough opportunities because I give away too many free points and they don't.

I think a 4.5 with a very potent serve could probably win a few games against WTA, but it would probably be like a 6-2, 6-1 kinda match. The shots that might bother other 4.5 players would probably not bother a WTA pro. So not only is a WTA player going to have better racquet control and footwork, but they will also have better shot tolerance than a 4.5. Although I don't necessarily think a WTA pro would overpower a 4.5, but it depends on the player I guess.

Mick 08-25-2009 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 3851791)
She's 55....no point in playing her now.

i think at 55 she would still beat a 4.5.

4.5 is not that good compared to her, that is.
according to tw, a 4.5 player is not even good enough to use a k90 effectively (look at the k90 page, tw recommends it for 5.0+ players)

Claudius 08-25-2009 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiden031 (Post 3851814)
After playing against a couple 4.5s I've discovered that they would not stand a chance of beating any WTA pro. 4.5 is certainly good and better than me, but as far as skills, they generally don't seem as good as I thought they would be. If I play my best I can hit winners against them and even win a couple rallies and games (if I serve well also), its just that in a match I don't get enough opportunities because I give away too many free points and they don't.

I think a 4.5 with a very potent serve could probably win a few games against WTA, but it would probably be like a 6-2, 6-1 kinda match. The shots that might bother other 4.5 players would probably not bother a WTA pro. So not only is a WTA player going to have better racquet control and footwork, but they will also have better shot tolerance than a 4.5. Although I don't necessarily think a WTA pro would overpower a 4.5, but it depends on the player I guess.

Hmm...I think a WTA pro would easily bagel a 4.5 every time. But I'm talking about Chris Evert here.

Kevo 08-25-2009 07:20 PM

I bet she'd beat most 4.5s handily, especially if she chose to play with modern equipment. I think some 4.5s might match up well against her though, but they would be few. Her consistency and tactics would end up putting her over the top.

raiden031 08-25-2009 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 3851822)
Hmm...I think a WTA pro would easily bagel a 4.5 every time. But I'm talking about Chris Evert here.

Well wasn't Evert a top pro? How can other top pros beat a 4.5 but not Evert?


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