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-   -   Stats for 1999 FO Final (Graf-Hingis) (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=295014)

Moose Malloy 10-26-2009 02:35 PM

Stats for 1999 FO Final (Graf-Hingis)
 
Graf d Hingis 4-6, 7-5, 6-2

my stats:

Hingis had 31 winners: 13 fh, 11 bh, 4 fhv, 2 bhv, 1 ov

Graf had 29: 16 fh, 10 bh, 2 fhv, 1 ov

Hingis had no aces, 1 double
Graf had 1 ace, 5 doubles

Hingis served at 63%(64 of 102)

She won 37 of 64 points on 1st serve(58%) & 14 of 38 on 2nd(37%)

Graf served at 56%(54 of 97)

She won 36 of 54 points on 1st serve(67%) & 19 of 43 on 2nd serve(44%)

Graf was 8 of 13 on break points(she broke in 8 of the 9 games she had a break point in)

Hingis was 6 of 14(she broke in 6 of the 8 games she had break point in)

Hingis was called for 2 foot faults, Graf one.

these were some stats from NBC:

after 1 set, Hingis had 13 winners, 9 unforced
Graf had 15 winners, 21 unforced

at 3-3 in the 2nd, Hingis was 14 of 25 at net, Graf 11 of 17

BTURNER 10-26-2009 09:13 PM

How many underhanded serves did each hit per set? LOL

grafselesfan 10-26-2009 09:19 PM

It is amazing to see Hingis with 13 forehand winners and Graf with 10 backhand winners.

Moose Malloy 10-27-2009 09:28 AM

Quote:

It is amazing to see Hingis with 13 forehand winners and Graf with 10 backhand winners.
Pretty much all of Graf's bh winners were either passing shots or drop shots. I don't think I've ever seen her hit more drop shots.

As to Hingis, her stats in this match surprised me. Maybe she had more power off the ground than she is given credit for(or maybe Graf's power is a bit overrated, esp in the context of the late 90s generation)

Joe Pike 10-27-2009 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 4056951)
Graf d Hingis 4-6, 7-5, 6-2

my stats:

Hingis had 31 winners: 13 fh, 11 bh, 4 fhv, 2 bhv, 1 ov

Graf had 29: 16 fh, 10 bh, 2 fhv, 1 ov

Hingis had no aces, 1 double
Graf had 1 ace, 5 doubles

Hingis served at 63%(64 of 102)

She won 37 of 64 points on 1st serve(58%) & 14 of 38 on 2nd(37%)

Graf served at 56%(54 of 97)

She won 36 of 54 points on 1st serve(67%) & 19 of 43 on 2nd serve(44%)

Graf was 8 of 13 on break points(she broke in 8 of the 9 games she had a break point in)

Hingis was 6 of 14(she broke in 6 of the 8 games she had break point in)

Hingis was called for 2 foot faults, Graf one.

these were some stats from NBC:

after 1 set, Hingis had 13 winners, 9 unforced
Graf had 15 winners, 21 unforced

at 3-3 in the 2nd, Hingis was 14 of 25 at net, Graf 11 of 17




Graf made 107 points, Hingis 93.

krosero 10-27-2009 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Pike (Post 4059439)
Graf made 107 points, Hingis 93.

From Moose's numbers I get 106-93.

krosero 10-27-2009 02:56 PM

Here's a boxscore from CNNSi.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ten...05/hingis_graf)

Match Statistics
Statistics of Steffi Graf's, 4-6, 7-5, 6-2 win over Martina Hingis
Hingis Category Graf
64 First serve percentage 57
0 Aces 1
2 Double faults 5
32 Winners 46
43 Unforced errors 42
6/14 Break points won/total 7/12
Match duration: 2 hours 25 minutes

krosero 10-27-2009 03:07 PM

One thing I notice about the boxscore is that the break points can't be right. The score was 4-6, 7-5, 6-2, so Graf must have made two more breaks than Hingis, as she does in Moose's numbers. In the boxscore she leads by only one break.

krosero 10-27-2009 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 4058958)
As to Hingis, her stats in this match surprised me. Maybe she had more power off the ground than she is given credit for(or maybe Graf's power is a bit overrated, esp in the context of the late 90s generation)

I think, though, that Graf hit a lot of forcing shots that were not clean winners. And in the boxscore she's got a very large windfall of winners beyond the clean winners/aces you gave her: 16 altogether. Hingis has only 1 extra winner.

Some of that could be judgment calls made on Graf's serves (service winners), but on clay Graf always forced errors mostly with her forehand.

Moose Malloy 10-27-2009 05:29 PM

I counted 11 unreturned serves for Hingis, 8 for Graf. None that I judged as service winners,

Pretty surprised that box score would give Graf that many more winners, because my winner counts for the 1st set lined up exactly with NBC's. Wonder if they used a different source for their counts.

Joe Pike 02-19-2010 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krosero (Post 4059848)
From Moose's numbers I get 106-93.

Plus one penalty point against Hingis.

Warriorroger 02-20-2010 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy (Post 4058958)
Pretty much all of Graf's bh winners were either passing shots or drop shots. I don't think I've ever seen her hit more drop shots.

As to Hingis, her stats in this match surprised me. Maybe she had more power off the ground than she is given credit for(or maybe Graf's power is a bit overrated, esp in the context of the late 90s generation)

I don't think her power is overrated, have many of her tapes and have all of the rackets she played with and to produce those serves and forehands in the 88/93 period with the Dunlop Max 200G is amazing. That was such a non-flexible racket. Her power is a different one than the power generated through the rackets.

krosero 02-20-2010 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Pike (Post 4414848)
Plus one penalty point against Hingis.

Yes, that would explain it; I'd forgotten the penalty point.

davey25 02-20-2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warriorroger (Post 4415181)
I don't think her power is overrated, have many of her tapes and have all of the rackets she played with and to produce those serves and forehands in the 88/93 period with the Dunlop Max 200G is amazing. That was such a non-flexible racket. Her power is a different one than the power generated through the rackets.

Her power is overrated in the sense that her power all comes from the serve and the forehand. There are others like the Williams, Davenport, Seles, who produce that kind of extreme power from the serve, forehand, backhand, and return of serve.

Texastennis 02-20-2010 11:40 AM

Too much narrow emphasis on "power." Graf's slice backhand penetrated very well and did far more damage than many "big power" backhands.

Joe Pike 02-21-2010 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davey25 (Post 4415876)
Her power is overrated in the sense that her power all comes from the serve and the forehand. There are others like the Williams, Davenport, Seles, who produce that kind of extreme power from the serve, forehand, backhand, and return of serve.


But why then did Graf hit more winners than the Davenports and Seleses all the time?

BTURNER 02-26-2010 12:40 AM

I have this one on DVD. I have never seen Hingis in such a bizarre mood as she was during this match, from the walking to the other side, to the snarky attitude and temper, to the alternating bouts of fake indifference and desperation. Gotta wonder if she was on something.

fedhingis515 02-26-2010 02:54 AM

This match breaks my heart...

BTURNER 02-26-2010 07:21 AM

Tactically is was the worst match I saw her play. She was hitting droppers from behind the baseline vs the fastest woman on the tour. I think she won one point off that tactic. Idiocy.

Moose Malloy 02-26-2010 12:08 PM

Quote:

But why then did Graf hit more winners than the Davenports and Seleses all the time?
do you have any stats on this? not saying you're wrong, but Graf did hit less winners than very young Venus & Serena in their meetings 1999. I wonder about the '99 W Final(Davenport-Graf)


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