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thanu 11-26-2009 04:34 AM

Jay Berger serve?
 
Anybody have any vids of Jay Berger? He's known for his weird no wind up serve. I would like to see it. :-) Thanks!



Thanu

LeeD 11-26-2009 07:35 AM

Just look at more modern pics, like '01, of JuanIgnacioChela.

borg number one 11-26-2009 07:39 AM

Thanu, I haven't seen a video of his serve available on Youtube at least, but here's some other info you might like to see:

Wikipedia on Jay Berger:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Berger

Short Clip of Jay Berger on his "Quickstart" Coaching Technique used for his son, a junior tennis player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PyWTEULJBA

Datacipher 11-27-2009 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thanu (Post 4145500)
Anybody have any vids of Jay Berger? He's known for his weird no wind up serve. I would like to see it. :-) Thanks!



Thanu

What really made Berger's serve ugly looking was that he let the racquet dangle loosely behind him as he waited for the rest of his toss/swing. He didn't bring his racquet up and hold it down, or even up, but just let it fall back. (THIS isn't a bad thing, in my opinion, but it was ugly). His first serve was a decent shot, good pace, he wasn't a big guy, well under 6 foot, so it wasn't a consistent weapon, but he could get a few aces. His second serve was adequate but rather predictable.

big bang 11-27-2009 03:58 AM

it sure was ugly!

Stroke 11-27-2009 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datacipher (Post 4149810)
What really made Berger's serve ugly looking was that he let the racquet dangle loosely behind him as he waited for the rest of his toss/swing. He didn't bring his racquet up and hold it down, or even up, but just let it fall back. (THIS isn't a bad thing, in my opinion, but it was ugly). His first serve was a decent shot, good pace, he wasn't a big guy, well under 6 foot, so it wasn't a consistent weapon, but he could get a few aces. His second serve was adequate but rather predictable.

I think Detacipher is on to sometihing when he mentions Berger used to "let the racquet dangle loosely behind him as he waited for the rest of this toss/swing". Being loose is a problem most of us have a problem with. This Berger type set up is a good to get a feel for how loose the arm needs to be in order for the racquet head to be whipped into the ball. Chela used this type of motion at one time also.

If you set up with a loose arm in the Berger type serve and relax the arm and turn the shoulders to the ball, most of us would be more likely to achieve the proper pro style racquet drop.

blackfrido 11-27-2009 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thanu (Post 4145500)
Anybody have any vids of Jay Berger? He's known for his weird no wind up serve. I would like to see it. :-) Thanks!



Thanu

very similar to this one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C47qQ...eature=related

jefferson 11-27-2009 05:53 AM

back scratcher!! super ugly, but he was on the tour!

Hominator 11-27-2009 06:14 AM

Don't forget Agassi after his wrist surgery back in the early 90ss.

Datacipher 11-28-2009 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stroke (Post 4149889)
I think Detacipher is on to sometihing when he mentions Berger used to "let the racquet dangle loosely behind him as he waited for the rest of this toss/swing". Being loose is a problem most of us have a problem with. This Berger type set up is a good to get a feel for how loose the arm needs to be in order for the racquet head to be whipped into the ball. Chela used this type of motion at one time also.

If you set up with a loose arm in the Berger type serve and relax the arm and turn the shoulders to the ball, most of us would be more likely to achieve the proper pro style racquet drop.

You're absolutely correct. It's part of the reason, that even with a swing that STARTED almost in the backscratch position, Berger could hit a pretty big first serve. All I was pointing out, is that a guys like Rios, Roddick, Rafter and others didn't let their racquet dangle down behind them as Berger did, they still have their racquet "UP" or even "down" (as in, they haven't even gotten to the racquet up position yet) his "waiting" point was basically much further along in the swing than their ready position. He brought it up, then let it go down towards the backscratch, and that's where he waited! So it made it pretty ugly. BUT, compared to many amateurs who never achieve this position anywhere in this swing, it's actually really desireable. Vic Braden showed me he sometimes does a drill where he has you drop the racquet behind your back, let it rest loosely back there, and then whip open your shoulders and let the racquet fly out from behind. This can also help you learn the feeling.

There is nothing wrong with a Berger type motion, if you do everything right. It can be very effective and sound! It just looks ugly, and, I think for most people, it would "feel" uncomfortable, as their isn't much rhythm and deep down, you'd feel self-conscious.

pc1 11-28-2009 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datacipher (Post 4153775)
You're absolutely correct. It's part of the reason, that even with a swing that STARTED almost in the backscratch position, Berger could hit a pretty big first serve. All I was pointing out, is that a guys like Rios, Roddick, Rafter and others didn't let their racquet dangle down behind them as Berger did, they still have their racquet "UP" or even "down" (as in, they haven't even gotten to the racquet up position yet) his "waiting" point was basically much further along in the swing than their ready position. He brought it up, then let it go down towards the backscratch, and that's where he waited! So it made it pretty ugly. BUT, compared to many amateurs who never achieve this position anywhere in this swing, it's actually really desireable. Vic Braden showed me he sometimes does a drill where he has you drop the racquet behind your back, let it rest loosely back there, and then whip open your shoulders and let the racquet fly out from behind. This can also help you learn the feeling.

There is nothing wrong with a Berger type motion, if you do everything right. It can be very effective and sound! It just looks ugly, and, I think for most people, it would "feel" uncomfortable, as their isn't much rhythm and deep down, you'd feel self-conscious.

It was good enough for the man to reach top ten in the world so how many could be attacking that serve?

A lot of players look good but don't win. I loved Henri Leconte but he didn't win nearly as much as he should have.

goober 11-09-2012 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackfrido (Post 4150002)

IMO not really similar at all. Berger actually started with his racquet back in the backscratch position. This guy seems to have a wind up with a hitch. There use to be youtube videos up of Berger in his playing days, not sure where they went.


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