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-   -   Should Nadal have gone down the line? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=302623)

AM95 12-17-2009 03:01 PM

Should Nadal have gone down the line?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO9j4a7JrBA&NR=1

point starts at :42.

could he have won wimbledon without going to the 5th set? or was he scared to go to Federer's backhand.

If i were in that position. I would have made Federer hit the forehand pass for two reasons:

1: He's way out of the court, a good forehand approach would have pretty much sealed the deal.

2: Federer would have needed to come up with something equally amazing as that backhand, but he would have less of an angle to work with (the backhand you could go cross court, or down the line. Most likely he would have hit the ball right back to Rafa.

The match was phenomenal because it went to 5, so im not sure why i would want it to go to four. So, yea, tell me what you think.

nCode2010 12-17-2009 03:43 PM

No player is perfect and makes the right decisions 100% of the time. Be happy your player won his one and ONLY Wimbledon.

kraggy 12-17-2009 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nCode2010 (Post 4204118)
won his one and ONLY Wimbledon.

So far :-). You *******s must have loved that he skipped Wimby this year!

svijk 12-17-2009 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AM95 (Post 4204020)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO9j4a7JrBA&NR=1

point starts at :42.

could he have won wimbledon without going to the 5th set? or was he scared to go to Federer's backhand.
If i were in that position. I would have made Federer hit the forehand pass for two reasons:

1: He's way out of the court, a good forehand approach would have pretty much sealed the deal.

2: Federer would have needed to come up with something equally amazing as that backhand, but he would have less of an angle to work with (the backhand you could go cross court, or down the line. Most likely he would have hit the ball right back to Rafa.

The match was phenomenal because it went to 5, so im not sure why i would want it to go to four. So, yea, tell me what you think.

He did go to the backhand didn't he? what r u talking about?? see underline


anyway Nadal played a percentage shot , hitting to Fed's forehand would have been a more difficult shot since the return was low and it is difficult to change direction of the ball.

Cup8489 12-17-2009 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraggy (Post 4204135)
So far :-). You *******s must have loved that he skipped Wimby this year!

You must hate that he's not going to win it next year.

JeMar 12-17-2009 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svijk (Post 4204140)
He did go to the backhand didn't he? what r u talking about?? see underline


anyway Nadal played a percentage shot , hitting to Fed's forehand would have been a more difficult shot since the return was low and it is difficult to change direction of the ball.

I'm pretty sure he's asking if Nadal was afraid of going to Federer's forehand and just mistyped.

fed_the_savior 12-17-2009 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AM95 (Post 4204020)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO9j4a7JrBA&NR=1

point starts at :42.

could he have won wimbledon without going to the 5th set? or was he scared to go to Federer's backhand.

If i were in that position. I would have made Federer hit the forehand pass for two reasons:

1: He's way out of the court, a good forehand approach would have pretty much sealed the deal.

2: Federer would have needed to come up with something equally amazing as that backhand, but he would have less of an angle to work with (the backhand you could go cross court, or down the line. Most likely he would have hit the ball right back to Rafa.

The match was phenomenal because it went to 5, so im not sure why i would want it to go to four. So, yea, tell me what you think.

Six of one half a dozen of the other. Upon close examination I believe the backhand pass was the better choice for Nadal, although staying back was the best choice. I believe both the pressure and anticipation of being so close to winning caused a slight overagressiveness and wanting to end the point. As we see in the following image Federer does have farther to run for a forehand pass, however this is common among pros, for the reason that the forehand is more powerful and easy to hit, and can be hit further back without as much difficulty. Federer's weight was also slightly shifting in the forehand direction to cover this extra distance, which is why I believe Nadal was trying to slightly wrong-foot him. However, Nadal opted to try to hit more to the body than out wide, to cramp the shot, and it gave Federer a little more time to think. However, it was NOT an easy shot by any means.



In this next picture I think we can see that the backhand pass, at first glance, does seem to have a slightly bigger angle. To compare hitting a backhand pass on the stretch and forehand pass on the run as equal is a mistake. The forehand will invariably be stronger, especially for the one hander, even though Federer is famous for his angles and flicks. Even if the forehand pass did not end up in a sheer winner, it most likely would turn out favorable for Federer. Also I think you can see Nadal should have been set up slightly more to the right to intersect the angles.


Jchurch 12-17-2009 04:29 PM

I think going to his backhand was the right shot. It looks as though Nadal hit it with side spin. That was one hell of a shot Federer pulled off there with the ball spinning away from him.

AM95 12-17-2009 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nCode2010 (Post 4204118)
No player is perfect and makes the right decisions 100% of the time. Be happy your player won his one and ONLY Wimbledon.

for the record..im a fed fan.

AM95 12-17-2009 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fed_the_savior (Post 4204191)
Six of one half a dozen of the other. Upon close examination I believe the backhand pass was the better choice for Nadal, although staying back was the best choice. I believe both the pressure and anticipation of being so close to winning caused a slight overagressiveness and wanting to end the point. As we see in the following image Federer does have farther to run for a forehand pass, however this is common among pros, for the reason that the forehand is more powerful and easy to hit, and can be hit further back without as much difficulty. Federer's weight was also slightly shifting in the forehand direction to cover this extra distance, which is why I believe Nadal was trying to slightly wrong-foot him. However, Nadal opted to try to hit more to the body than out wide, to cramp the shot, and it gave Federer a little more time to think. However, it was NOT an easy shot by any means.



In this next picture I think we can see that the backhand pass, at first glance, does seem to have a slightly bigger angle. To compare hitting a backhand pass on the stretch and forehand pass on the run as equal is a mistake. The forehand will invariably be stronger, especially for the one hander, even though Federer is famous for his angles and flicks. Even if the forehand pass did not end up in a sheer winner, it most likely would turn out favorable for Federer. Also I think you can see Nadal should have been set up slightly more to the right to intersect the angles.


awesome analysis..and i love how you took the time to make these images and show the possible angles. but i still have to say that if nadal were to hit to Federer's forehand, he would have closed and therefore let less space for the angle. however, your reasoning does make sense, im just happy there was a 5th set.

nCode2010 12-17-2009 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AM95 (Post 4204247)
for the record..im a fed fan.

Gotta be careful these days - never know who is opening trolling threads.

Lsmkenpo 12-17-2009 06:32 PM

It wasn't the best choice, serve and volley 101 don't approach crosscourt.

I think Nadal was still thinking with a baseliner mentality, hit the safe shot crosscourt to the backhand.

It was a pretty good stroke nonetheless, definitely forced Federer to hit a great shot to stay alive.

Most S&V players would probably have just hit down the middle of the court on the approach from that shot, and set up to finish the point with a volley or overhead if he tried the lob.

OddJack 12-17-2009 06:46 PM

Yes, I too think if he had gone DTL he would have had a better chance. I remember thinking about this back then.

ManuGinobili 12-17-2009 07:43 PM

fed_the_savior,
in your analysis the yellow arrow to Fed's backhand is way too wide... Nadal hit the ball at the end corner of the court, which was a lot less dangerous than if he had hit it like how your arrow was drawn . Fed had time to hit a shot right at his waist level, with great balance, and without even having to reach (the reaching BH is probably his worst shot, where he normally resolves to a slice and get beat the hell out of).
I would totally vote for the crosscourt to BH shot, and it should have been the best possible shot IF Nadal had created more angle on it...

clayman2000 12-17-2009 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo (Post 4204459)
It wasn't the best choice, serve and volley 101 don't approach crosscourt.

I think Nadal was still thinking with a baseliner mentality, hit the safe shot crosscourt to the backhand.

It was a pretty good stroke nonetheless, definitely forced Federer to hit a great shot to stay alive.

Most S&V players would probably have just hit down the middle of the court on the approach from that shot, and set up to finish the point with a volley or overhead if he tried the lob.

Rafa was actually thinking logically.
9 / 10 Rafa goes DTL on that shot. He firgured Fed would probably read it. And if Fed does then he has a FH pass, which as Andy Roddick know can hurt.

With the crosscourt approach, its harder to hit the pass as the CC angle is covered. Fed only had 1 option there and he hit it.

Could Nadal have placed it a bit better, yes, Was it bad? No.

tlm 12-17-2009 07:55 PM

It was a terrible choice, the down the line was wide open, he hit it to the wrong side or that match would have been over.

IvanAndreevich 12-17-2009 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 4204640)
It was a terrible choice, the down the line was wide open, he hit it to the wrong side or that match would have been over.

Did you see how low that ball was? Very low bounce and tight to the net. Going down the line is a very low percentage shot in that situation. Also, since you are approaching to the Federer forehand in a GS final you have to make it REALLY good or you are going to get owned hard.

He made the right choice. Hit an aggressive high percentage shot and covered the cross court pass. Federer's pass was simply too good, that's all.

matchmaker 12-17-2009 08:36 PM

Quite interestingly I was twice in a row in the same situation today and went twice for the DTL shot from lefty forehand to righty forehand, resulting twice in a winning volley as all the angles were covered that way.

It is scary to play into the strength of your opponent, but if you cover the net well, it can be done and a DTL attack to the net is always safer than a cross court.

Maybe someone should tell that to Roddick.

Anway, just my 2 cent.

IvanAndreevich 12-17-2009 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matchmaker (Post 4204693)
Quite interestingly I was twice in a row in the same situation today and went twice for the DTL shot from lefty forehand to righty forehand, resulting twice in a winning volley as all the angles were covered that way.

It is scary to play into the strength of your opponent, but if you cover the net well, it can be done and a DTL attack to the net is always safer than a cross court.

Maybe someone should tell that to Roddick.

Anway, just my 2 cent.

Roddick gets owned so badly approaching to Fed's forehand it's not even funny. Or what are referring to?

AM95 12-18-2009 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanAndreevich (Post 4204740)
Roddick gets owned so badly approaching to Fed's forehand it's not even funny. Or what are referring to?

thats because Roddick is Fed's wipping boy xD


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