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raiden031 05-31-2010 07:15 AM

Game penalty
 
So I had a match last week and played Singles. Most of the opposing team showed up way ahead of time, but they ended up defaulting one court and their captain didn't even show up. According to our local rules, if a captain is late to exchange the lineup, all courts result in a loss of toss and 1 game penalty against the team whose captain is late. I guess after realizing they had no captain, one of the players proceeded to do the lineup exchange. Anyways my captain told me and my opponent about the 1 game penalty just as we were about to start.

I immediately told my opponent that I wanted to start at 0-0 because its not his fault that his captain didn't show up or delegate someone to exchange the lineup for him. I don't play USTA tennis to get shortcuts to win, I play it for the fun of competition. To me the rules are there to keep the game fair and fun, and of course as a way to handle disputes. In this case, my opponent did his part by showing up on time ready to play, so I didn't see a need to punish him for someone else's irresponsibility, making the individual match less fair to both of us and even making the computer-analyzed result in tennislink inaccurate.

So would you have taken the penalty or declined it?

JavierLW 05-31-2010 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiden031 (Post 4708564)
So I had a match last week and played Singles. Most of the opposing team showed up way ahead of time, but they ended up defaulting one court and their captain didn't even show up. According to our local rules, if a captain is late to exchange the lineup, all courts result in a loss of toss and 1 game penalty against the team whose captain is late. I guess after realizing they had no captain, one of the players proceeded to do the lineup exchange. Anyways my captain told me and my opponent about the 1 game penalty just as we were about to start.

I immediately told my opponent that I wanted to start at 0-0 because its not his fault that his captain didn't show up or delegate someone to exchange the lineup for him. I don't play USTA tennis to get shortcuts to win, I play it for the fun of competition. To me the rules are there to keep the game fair and fun, and of course as a way to handle disputes. In this case, my opponent did his part by showing up on time ready to play, so I didn't see a need to punish him for someone else's irresponsibility, making the individual match less fair to both of us and even making the computer-analyzed result in tennislink inaccurate.

So would you have taken the penalty or declined it?

Most men's teams here don't take late penalty's even though they can.

Most of us have jobs and getting somewhere by 6pm with crazy road construction, etc..., is difficult. (at least to the point where you cant be 2 or 3 minutes late)

The only time I would do it is if the other team had done it to us.

That's a pretty nit-picky rule anyway (about the lineup exchange) and a silly situation to take a game.

And I would leave it up to my players as to how they would want to handle it.

Either way though it sounds like that team has some real issues! (with communication....)

Cindysphinx 05-31-2010 08:41 AM

Raiden's captain was following the rules, but I wouldn't have handled it that way.

As a captain, I have never taken the "late line-up exchange" penalty. Usually, there is just a miscommunication or other minor glitch that causes one team to be late. If you walk up at 5 minutes ahead of match time and no one has the line-up ready, you just tell them to do it. There will be some scrambling, but they'll get it. And then you just go play.

The two times I have considered taking it were times when the opposing captain was playing games. One actually hid in the bathroom to avoid the exchange rather than just coming to me and telling me about the problem she was having with a tardy player. The other hid in the parking lot.

When an individual player is late, however, I often have my players take the game penalty (loss of 1 game for 5 min late, 2 games for 10 min, 3 games for 15 min). The reason is that we play timed matches and the penalty is fair because the tardiness decreases the window the players have to finish the match. A slightly late exchange doesn't impact the match at all, so I don't feel comfortable taking the penalty.

When other captains enforce tardiness penalties strictly against my players, I'm fine with it.

polski 05-31-2010 11:11 AM

I wouldn't have taken it.

The only time I have taken it is when an official in a tournament enforces it. Even then, it didn't feel like a win. And if I had lost, it just would have felt worse. It's a lose-lose situation.

raiden031 05-31-2010 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polski (Post 4709523)
I wouldn't have taken it.

The only time I have taken it is when an official in a tournament enforces it. Even then, it didn't feel like a win. And if I had lost, it just would have felt worse. It's a lose-lose situation.

Yeah I actually told the guy that if he bagels me in the first set, then I'll take the game so no one knows that I declined it. :)

West Coast Ace 05-31-2010 03:51 PM

raiden031, you did good.

Can someone help me understand why a league would make such a silly rule? I am not wrapping my head around this one.

raiden031 05-31-2010 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Coast Ace (Post 4710403)
raiden031, you did good.

Can someone help me understand why a league would make such a silly rule? I am not wrapping my head around this one.

I can sorta understand because I can't think of an alternative punishment for a captain not doing what they are supposed to. I mean how can you punish the captain without punishing individual teammates?

Cindysphinx 05-31-2010 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Coast Ace (Post 4710403)
raiden031, you did good.

Can someone help me understand why a league would make such a silly rule? I am not wrapping my head around this one.

Remember, we play timed matches. Two hours and your match is over.

As a result, tardiness is punished severely, and opponents will take your default for tardiness in a New York minute. If a team isn't ready to exchange line-ups 5 minutes before match start time, that is loss of toss and one game on all courts. If a team isn't ready to exchange at match time, that's a forfeit on all courts.

In reality, this particular penalty is rarely enforced. All you have to do to avoid the penalty if find a blank piece of paper and scribble out a line-up. If the captain no-shows, someone on the team will usually step up and do this.

One of my substitute captains tried to enforce the late exchange penalty once. Opposing team could not be found to exchange line-ups for a match at a very large tennis facility. My captain was waiting at the assigned courts; opposing captain says she was waiting in the lobby. My captain greeted the opposing captain with, "You're late. We're entitled to the penalty." Opposing captain said, "Oh, no you're not." At that point, my substitute captain's options were limited to dropping the issue or refusing to play the match and filing a grievance instead. She wisely decided to just play.


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