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-   -   Human Racket Poll (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=373192)

dozu 03-21-2011 10:40 AM

Human Racket Poll
 
By popular demand, here it is.

[HunterST] - "Do it, man. Make a poll asking if people think the human racket concept is a great teaching tool. No one is stopping you"

upbeat 03-21-2011 10:51 AM

What would the "Human Racket" be, exactly?

dozu 03-21-2011 10:59 AM

majority of lower level players (but could be up to computer rated 5.0).... since the instinct is to 'hit the ball', they will use the arm to swing the racket, after all, the racket is what makes contact with the ball. So common symptoms are -

arming the ball - by definition, no need to engage the body since the intent is to use the arm to swing the racket; lack of core rotation - since player is just trying to swing the racket, no 'need' to engage the body.

The 'human racket' concept, is basically asking students, to imagine the arm+racket unit as being 1 BIG RACKET, aka the 'human racket'. In order to swing this human racket that is 10-20 lbs based on gender and age, the player will naturally have deeper knee bends and shoulder/hip turns, will naturally have a more 'connected' swing where the arm is basically just passively following the core rotation, instead of actively trying to swing the graphite racket, and therefore gets out of sync with the body, or 'disconnected' from the core.

so, using the GOAT as an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

my point is that Fed in this video, his intent, is

TO USE THE BODY TO SWING THE HUMAN RACKET, instead of
TO USE THE ARM TO SWING THE GRAPHITE RACKET.

Sreeram 03-21-2011 11:14 AM

It is valid, but i dont think a beginer should be tought about it more. May be a good concept for a high 3.0 to 3.5 player. Let people less than that level learn to use their arm right.
How do you use this concept to explain a running forehand or a forehand where the ball is dropping in front of you and you stretch foreward. In both the cases it is more of arming the ball.

dozu 03-21-2011 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sreeram (Post 5508749)
It is valid, but i dont think a beginer should be tought about it more. May be a good concept for a high 3.0 to 3.5 player. Let people less than that level learn to use their arm right.
How do you use this concept to explain a running forehand or a forehand where the ball is dropping in front of you and you stretch foreward. In both the cases it is more of arming the ball.

for the very beginner who picked up the racket for the first time, you are right, this is too much.

but majority of rec players stuck at 3.0-3.5 trying to swing the graphite racket.

running forehand, my favorite, and this concept is especially useful for the running situation... tossing the human racket into the ball, while you are running, is exactly how you have freedom of movement with the feet.

players who try to swing the graphite racket in a running FH, will need to set the feet first, so the feet can be used to push the racket.... and these players usually get out of balance the moment they have to hit a running FH.

dozu 03-21-2011 11:29 AM

I am thinking.... if this poll can even get close to 30% confirmation on the concept, that is still pretty darn good... considering that the majority of the tennis population has never felt centrifugal force in their game.

and you will certainly feel the centrifugal force, if you swing the human racket.... if the arm is relaxed and just following the rotation of the core, you will feel that the arm is trying to fly out of the shoulder socket, and blood rushing into the hand/fingers during the swing.

HunterST 03-21-2011 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozu (Post 5508797)
I am thinking.... if this poll can even get close to 30% confirmation on the concept, that is still pretty darn good... considering that the majority of the tennis population has never felt centrifugal force in their game.

and you will certainly feel the centrifugal force, if you swing the human racket.... if the arm is relaxed and just following the rotation of the core, you will feel that the arm is trying to fly out of the shoulder socket, and blood rushing into the hand/fingers during the swing.

Hahaha, love how you're now making the standard of success so low that it's virtually impossible not to achieve.

At least this has gotten the discussion back to tennis and not how good or bad Dozu is.

i8myshirt 03-21-2011 11:34 AM

I've certainly improved my game using my upper body more rather than trying to arm the ball, but is it fair to say to not exactly label this as "the human racquet?" When I first read about the human racquet stuff on this board, I was confused because I couldn't really find a concrete definition of what it was (maybe I was just being stupid). However, if you could just say "use your arm as an extension of the racquet" to emphasize the usage of the chest in the swing, it would clear things up and help spread the message.

dozu 03-21-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterST (Post 5508821)
Hahaha, love how you're now making the standard of success so low that it's virtually impossible not to achieve.

At least this has gotten the discussion back to tennis and not how good or bad Dozu is.

standards being high/low, that's debatable... if a concept can help 1 student out of 3, will you use it?

name another concept that you think can have 30% success rate, in INSTANTLY IMPROVING a player, and we can put a separate poll on that.

Photoshop 03-21-2011 11:39 AM

It's a great concept. But it used to be pretty annoying how you responded to virtually every thread with just 4 words "take my magic pill." :D

dozu 03-21-2011 11:54 AM

[non joking mode ON]

all this perception of cockiness and condescending attitude with the magic pill and all, can be blamed on my old dogs.

the type of trash talking going on in my garage is a lot worse than my posting style... yet the dogs and I we all know that we are just kidding around, and what happens in the garage, stays in the garage (or on the real golf course for that matter)...

I probably got carried away with it.... unintentionally, and perhaps intentionally LOL.... but some guys like Djokovicfan4life actually figured out what I was doing... and therefore here it is again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtbASCE7ZY

sennoc 03-21-2011 01:29 PM

Human racket is a simplified concept based on trivial and wrong understanding of physical energy generation in tennis strokes. It's valid for low-skilled players, let's say below 3.5 NTRP. At this stage it can help them. For more skilled players the concept is an obstacle, because it is physically deeply wrong. It's not possible to be a good player if you really think that good strokes are produced this way. In practice, none of ATP players plays like a "human racket". It LOOKS like they play this way but they DON'T.

theZig 03-21-2011 01:45 PM

think i've said it before, but there's nothing wrong with the underlying message; i just think it's worded a bit odd. overall the message is use your whole body in sync, be efficient, and maximize your gains (get out of your own way etc also work). it's the concept of "your concepts are hindering you", funnily enough. there's a way people think the ball ought to be hit (arming, etc) and the way it should be (fed, various pros). dozu's oftentimes said if people gave it more thought, it would make sense, and I believe he means more "look past just what your initial response is"; not necessarily "sit there and swallow my pill" but "sit there and think about how a pill works".

dozu 03-21-2011 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sennoc (Post 5509178)
Human racket is a simplified concept based on trivial and wrong understanding of physical energy generation in tennis strokes. It's valid for low-skilled players, let's say below 3.5 NTRP. At this stage it can help them. For more skilled players the concept is an obstacle, because it is physically deeply wrong. It's not possible to be a good player if you really think that good strokes are produced this way. In practice, none of ATP players plays like a "human racket". It LOOKS like they play this way but they DON'T.

how do they play then.

cdubdub 03-21-2011 04:36 PM

i dont like that you call the concept 'the human racquet'. I definitely have been using this more lately after i have been having a nice knee bend and uncoiliing in my legs, but i dont think "use the human racquet" and i dont take the magic pill. i just think 'bend the knees, explode into the ball'! and it really feels effortless and i can see the topspin jump into the person.

rufusbgood 03-21-2011 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdubdub (Post 5509682)
i dont like that you call the concept 'the human racquet'. I definitely have been using this more lately after i have been having a nice knee bend and uncoiliing in my legs, but i dont think "use the human racquet" and i dont take the magic pill. i just think 'bend the knees, explode into the ball'! and it really feels effortless and i can see the topspin jump into the person.

I also don't think of it as "use the human racquet". I think of it as "Okay, now let's practice hitting like a girl".

:arrow: :mrgreen:

Djokovicfan4life 03-21-2011 07:46 PM

Well Dozu, at least we agree on something. The majority of this forum takes themselves WAY too seriously. Probably why we have so many "mental game" threads.

Take some valium, guys, and stop worrying about everything Dozu does. Yes, his rants get a little old, but he's not even close to frequenting the Pro Player section yet. If you want someone to dump on, bring it. That's what I'm here for.

HunterST 03-21-2011 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djokovicfan4life (Post 5510164)
Well Dozu, at least we agree on something. The majority of this forum takes themselves WAY too seriously. Probably why we have so many "mental game" threads.

Or maybe you guys make jokes that aren't funny?

Djokovicfan4life 03-21-2011 07:51 PM

Then don't read them. I don't care what you think. Maybe if I knew you it'd be different, but for the most part none of us care if you feel the need to control the forums. Maybe look into becoming a mod (not the ones with epic hair)?

Until then, I'm gonna post whatever the hell I want, unless it really is hijacking a thread.

arche3 03-21-2011 07:57 PM

I harass dozu because I didn't take the "MAGIC PILL" because drugs are bad.

I would like to start using "Leggy Rackey" as the term to describe my prescription for bad footwork which we probably all have. So don't get all upset at me if I post "Leggy Rackey" all over the forum in the next few months. :)


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