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-   -   All you guys who say Federer mostly hits off the front foot. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=380824)

[ GTR ] 05-20-2011 06:43 AM

All you guys who say Federer mostly hits off the front foot.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPKZ5...&feature=feedf

dominikk1985 05-20-2011 07:08 AM

nobody hits mostly off the front foot today.

Fed only gets on the fron foot if he steps into the court to punish shorter balls.

but with his normal rally stroke behind the baseline he uses and open stance like mostly like anyone else on the tour.

BobFL 05-20-2011 07:22 AM

Roger Federer practises at Roland Garros 2011

HunterST 05-20-2011 08:19 AM

Really, the important question is not if he does or does not hit off of the back foot. The question is: what would he do under ideal circumstances?

In my opinion, it's not a good idea to pattern the technique you use in ideal circumstances after what Federer does when he's returning the shots of another pro who is hitting with wicked pace, spin, and depth.

dozu 05-20-2011 08:25 AM

Hunter - recently your posts have become more and more off base.

time to hit the court.

[ GTR ] 05-20-2011 08:29 AM

"The question is: what would he do under ideal circumstances? "

Thats my point. I read a lot of posters who critique videos of even high level players, judging them on 'falling back' - when in fact it is reacting to a certain ball, i.e. deep and higher ball pushing them back.

Its not always ideal to step in and take it on the rise... Im mostly talking about the old school players here - saying Federer is an old school player who hits off the front foot the majority of times. It also seems as if most players think stepping into the ball is a MUST.
You cannot step into the ball all the time otherwise youd be making errors left and right.

If u are pushed back, then you are. Watch Federer's footwork pattern how he loads up on the back foot while leaning back to transfer the weight to his left foot. This is the weight transfer that most people don't realise even though it appears he is leaning back

and bob, your point?

HunterST 05-20-2011 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [ GTR ] (Post 5666682)
"The question is: what would he do under ideal circumstances? "

Thats my point. I read a lot of posters who critique videos of even high level players, judging them on 'falling back' - when in fact it is reacting to a certain ball, i.e. deep and higher ball pushing them back.

Its not always ideal to step in and take it on the rise... Im mostly talking about the old school players here - saying Federer is an old school player who hits off the front foot the majority of times. It also seems as if most players think stepping into the ball is a MUST.
You cannot step into the ball all the time otherwise youd be making errors left and right.

If u are pushed back, then you are. Watch Federer's footwork pattern how he loads up on the back foot while leaning back to transfer the weight to his left foot. This is the weight transfer that most people don't realise even though it appears he is leaning back

and bob, your point?

Oh yeah. This is absolutely true. Sometimes you're forced back and you have no choice but to hit falling back. My pro says that one of the main mistakes lower to intermediate players make is trying to hit an offensive shot when they're in a defensive position instead of being defensive.

The only problem I have with it is that tons of people hit while falling back when there's no reason to do so. The ball is not particularly pressing, they get set up in time, and then they just hit with their weight going back for no reason. They just think it looks like what they see pros do.

MNPlayer 05-20-2011 08:56 AM

Watching pro matches, it is apparent that they almost always hit forehands off the back foot, either open or neutral stance. Some guys like Murray often hit with the front foot off the ground! A few guys like Soderling or Berdych might be exceptions? As other have said, that doesn't mean they aren't putting their weight into the ball.

I take lessons from two pros, one of which strongly advocates hitting off the front foot and the the other really pushes the open stance unless hitting a winner off a short ball. I find myself leaning towards open/neutral stance for almost all shots, perhaps just because this is how I've played for years now.

I think the strongest argument for hitting off the back foot is the recovery time. You can get moving back to the center of the court much faster. I have a habit of hitting shorter balls off the front foot, and even there, if I have to scramble back to the baseline it takes more time, my legs get tangled up :)

That said, there obviously are players who can play at a high level (5.0+) hitting off the front foot almost all the time (I've seen at least one anyway). This is an aggressive style of play, I'm impressed with anybody that has the footwork to make that work.

SFrazeur 05-20-2011 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobFL (Post 5666493)
Roger Federer practises at Roland Garros 2011

That is British English spelling. Their verbs end in "ise" If I recall correctly.

-SF

TennisCoachFLA 05-20-2011 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNPlayer (Post 5666766)
Watching pro matches, it is apparent that they almost always hit forehands off the back foot, either open or neutral stance. Some guys like Murray often hit with the front foot off the ground! A few guys like Soderling or Berdych might be exceptions? As other have said, that doesn't mean they aren't putting their weight into the ball.

I take lessons from two pros, one of which strongly advocates hitting off the front foot and the the other really pushes the open stance unless hitting a winner off a short ball. I find myself leaning towards open/neutral stance for almost all shots, perhaps just because this is how I've played for years now.

I think the strongest argument for hitting off the back foot is the recovery time. You can get moving back to the center of the court much faster. I have a habit of hitting shorter balls off the front foot, and even there, if I have to scramble back to the baseline it takes more time, my legs get tangled up :)

That said, there obviously are players who can play at a high level (5.0+) hitting off the front foot almost all the time (I've seen at least one anyway). This is an aggressive style of play, I'm impressed with anybody that has the footwork to make that work.

100% correct. We teach kids to hit coming forward to show them how to explode into the shot. Then as they move into real situations they gradually adapt to the level of competition as they age.

By the time they are top juniors they need to hit off the back foot many times and then recover. Of course they can pick their spots and come forward when they go for winners.

Tennis is situational like any sport. You teach the fundamentals and then real life circumstances dictate how you can apply those fundamentals.

dozu 05-20-2011 09:39 AM

if a player stays in balance, and has the correct firing sequence, this front foot back foot thing is a moot point.

by the time the impact is made, the energy stored in the legs has long been released... the legs are NOT providing any power AT the moment of impact.... they are there to keep the player in balance and make tiny adjustments so he is at the correct distance to the ball.

weight should always transfer from the back leg to the front leg, but whether the transfer has been completed (aka hitting off the front foot) at the moment of impact is irrelevant. Once the right foot fires, the energy is transfered to the later stage rockets - the hips then on to the core and the arm. The energy is gone.

Ash_Smith 05-20-2011 09:43 AM

I was once told that to be a top ranked player you had to be a master of hitting off 2 out of three stances - front foot, outside foot and back foot.

Federer, for example, is a master off the outside foot and the front foot. Nadal, a master off the outside foot and the back foot.

The important thing is to understand how power is generated from these three positions when teaching them.

Cheers

MNPlayer 05-20-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozu (Post 5666893)
if a player stays in balance, and has the correct firing sequence, this front foot back foot thing is a moot point.

by the time the impact is made, the energy stored in the legs has long been released... the legs are NOT providing any power AT the moment of impact.... they are there to keep the player in balance and make tiny adjustments so he is at the correct distance to the ball.

weight should always transfer from the back leg to the front leg, but whether the transfer has been completed (aka hitting off the front foot) at the moment of impact is irrelevant. Once the right foot fires, the energy is transfered to the later stage rockets - the hips then on to the core and the arm. The energy is gone.

That may be true for a single shot in isolation, but if you are pulled wide to the forehand and hit off the front foot (assuming you have the skill to setup properly), it better be a winner because you will have a heck of a time recovering for the next shot. That's how it works for me anyway...

MNPlayer 05-20-2011 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith (Post 5666909)
I was once told that to be a top ranked player you had to be a master of hitting off 2 out of three stances - front foot, outside foot and back foot.

Federer, for example, is a master off the outside foot and the front foot. Nadal, a master off the outside foot and the back foot.

The important thing is to understand how power is generated from these three positions when teaching them.

Cheers

This is interesting. When I'm really "in the zone" I can feel a smooth switch between outside foot and front foot from shot to shot and I'll hit one or the other depending on the incoming ball (speaking just for the forehand side here, my backhand is not that developed). Doesn't happen often enough but it's a great feeling :)

LeeD 05-20-2011 11:26 AM

Hit off you back foot for consistency.
Hit off your front foot for power and winner attempts.
Everyone does both, from American S/V guys to Spanish back footed baseliners.

baek57 05-20-2011 02:21 PM

Pretty insane how hard the pros hit the ball.

Povl Carstensen 05-20-2011 10:23 PM

Nice video of old man washed out Federer hitting his feeble shots... Sorry, joking

tlm 05-21-2011 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 5667161)
Hit off you back foot for consistency.
Hit off your front foot for power and winner attempts.
Everyone does both, from American S/V guys to Spanish back footed baseliners.

Good post lee, i like to hit heavy top spin and i find that i can actually hit more consistent off the back foot. Because i am pulling up and back so much it makes it natural to hit off the back foot. I have noticed that when hitting off the back foot and pinning my opponent back, that when i change it up and step into the shot i have to be much more precise or i will hit long when stepping forward.

However like you noted if you get the shorter ball then you move forward and hit off your front foot. I know i have had people notice that i am hitting off the back foot, and they tell me that it is wrong and i should be hitting off the front foot. But a big part of my game is looping heavy ts relentlessly, and like you say it is very consistent to use this method.

Cup8489 05-21-2011 07:25 AM

Not sure what all the fuss is about... He's backin up but definitely still transferring hIs weight into the shot, ie moving into it...

TennisCoachFLA 05-21-2011 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cup8489 (Post 5668808)
Not sure what all the fuss is about... He's backin up but definitely still transferring hIs weight into the shot, ie moving into it...

This leaves me wondering if we watched the same video. In that practice session he is obviously working one aspect of his game, hitting as extreme off his back foot as he can, while leaning back on most shots, pulling his racquet across. A situation he would find himself in at times during a match. Just like all aspects of his game, he focuses on certain things in certain session, like most players do.

He certainly does transfer his weight and move into his strokes many times.....but that is not what he was doing in that video in the first post.


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