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-   -   4.5jumping to open in pursuit of 1glorious atp point (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=385000)

yonexpurestorm 06-18-2011 09:24 PM

4.5jumping to open in pursuit of 1glorious atp point
 
Theres a few threads like this, but I wanted to share my goals with my fellow TT’ers and maybe this will help me achieve them. Like the title says my ultimate goal is to get 1 atp point, but knowing this may be impossible, my more achievable goal would be to do well enough in open tournies to make tennis cost nothing for me to play.

So lets start from the beginning. I started playing tennis as a kid with my family, took some lessons and played a few juniors events. Never did well and my mom stopped entering me because she didn’t wanna pay the entry fees anymore. I was born and raised in HB Orange County and played varsity at HBHS for 3 years quitting my senior year to work. After many years of only playing a few times a year I am now 26. Last july (summer of 2010) I for some reason really got back into tennis and have been working on getting better and now I want to take my game to the next level. I try to play any tourn I can in orange county, I play on a usta team, and play in ult tennis and tennisoc.com. I am now a decent 4.5 rated player and finally found a racquet string setup that I like and doesn’t hurt my arm.

This summer I plan on entering as many open tournaments as I can, and hopefully can qualify to get a spot in a futures qualifying round. If I can qualify, my goal will be to make the rnd of 16 and obtain one beautiful atp ranking point and become something like the 1500th best player in the world(sure would be sweet to be able to tell ppl this). As of yet I have only played one open tourn and lost in the first round, but have gotten way better since finding my strings the purchase of my PSTGT and klippermate. Based on this list I am only #27 in the 4.5, but this is based on 12 months of me not doing so well. I am a much better player than I was just 1month ago.
http://tennislink.usta.com/tournamen...%3d&Year=&C=-1

So for anyone that is interested I have compiled a list of tourns I will be playing this summer and will update as I go along. Ill update after each round of the tourn and maybe some mile stones as I go along. I might even keep a public record of how much I spend on tennis expenses and how much I win to see if I can achieve my play tennis for free goal.

http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen...7&E=66&D=M&S=F
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen...x?T=100143&E=3
These are my most recent tourns, but lost in the semis. The seal beach tourn I played a league match right before my semi match and just ran out of gas in the 2nd set.

Upcoming:
2011 Jackie Tatum Classic
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=100152
Lakewood Open
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=100158
125th SCTA Open ( this would be sweet to win because winner get WC into UCLA atp250, highly unlikely though.
Santa Ana Open
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=100167
Claremont Futures WC
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen...t.aspx?T=94282
Michael Change Tennis Classic or Cerritos Open (same weekend)
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=108415
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=104685
Laguna Niguel Futures Qualifier
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=100176
Huntington Beach Open (my personal favorite because playing site is a block away)
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=100193
Costa Mesa Futures Pre-Qualifying
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=100191
Santa Monica (maybe if im up for the drive)
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournamen....aspx?T=100199

NLBwell 06-18-2011 09:45 PM

Since at the moment you seem to be a high 4.5 - transitioning into 5.0, why don't you enter some 5.0 tournaments where you will be competitive and not as many open/pre-qualifying. Yes, it will give you some knowledge of the competition getting whacked 6-0, 6-1 or something like that once in a while by a true open or futures player, but it will probably help you develop more playing 5.0 people who are just a little better than you where you can have a competitive match. Yes, you may get a 4.0 you can beat up on in an open tournament, but that isn't helping your game. Once you start doing well in 5.0s, transition to more opens and less 5.0 tournaments.
Going from 4.5 to beating 6.0s is a big leap to take all at once. If you really want to do this, it's going to take a lot of hard work and dedication - do you have a life other than tennis? (wifes and such frown on this)

Photoshop 06-18-2011 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yonexpurestorm (Post 5756591)
This summer I plan on entering as many open tournaments as I can, and hopefully can qualify to get a spot in a futures qualifying round. If I can qualify, my goal will be to make the rnd of 16 and obtain one beautiful atp ranking point and become something like the 1500th best player in the world(sure would be sweet to be able to tell ppl this).

I'm actually curious - how do you exactly qualify for a spot in a Futures qualifying round? Do you have to have a national/sectional ranking or something? and how many people from the qualifying round get a spot in the main draw? and how big are futures tournaments usually, in terms of the draw size? 32, 64? (guess that depends on location and time of the year?)

I'm a 4.5 too but earning an ATP point has never even crossed my mind for a split second, ever. There are just way too many people much much better than me. I couldn't even win an intramural tournament at my school, and there're probably hundreds of people better than me in my town alone.

I don't know... maybe it's just me but I don't think it's anything to be proud of (and I wouldn't tell anyone either) even if by some freak accident I won 1 ATP point in a 16 people tournament in Africa or something. Sure it'd be a good conversation starter or a good pick-up line (heyyy i'm a professional tennis player :D) but I just don't think I could say that with a straight face. :D Also can you imagine all the people who would challenge you to play a set?? haha...:lol::shock:

benny444 06-19-2011 03:52 AM

Hey mate
I will also be playing in the Jackie Tatum Classic and the Lakewood Open. If you are interested, do you want to play doubles with me? as i am in search for a partner for both tourny's

yonexpurestorm 06-19-2011 01:22 PM

Quote:

Since at the moment you seem to be a high 4.5 - transitioning into 5.0, why don't you enter some 5.0 tournaments where you will be competitive and not as many open/pre-qualifying. Yes, it will give you some knowledge of the competition getting whacked 6-0, 6-1 or something like that once in a while by a true open or futures player, but it will probably help you develop more playing 5.0 people who are just a little better than you where you can have a competitive match. Yes, you may get a 4.0 you can beat up on in an open tournament, but that isn't helping your game. Once you start doing well in 5.0s, transition to more opens and less 5.0 tournaments.Going from 4.5 to beating 6.0s is a big leap to take all at once. If you really want to do this, it's going to take a lot of hard work and dedication - do you have a life other than tennis? (wifes and such frown on this)
i actually wish i could do this. most of the tourns here in orange county have a good draw size for 4.5 and open, but the 5.0 or 5.5 are rarely over 5 ppl. this is because the 5.0+ ppl will enter the open or sandbag into a 4.5 tourn. the latest tourn i played in seal beach actually had a decent 5.5 because there was no open. i didnt expect this or i prob would have tried 5.5. its usually not worth the money if theres only 5 ppl. since i dont have any kids i try and play 5 times a week, but finding good competition is hard, and i never really get a chance to just drill which is big. my gf isnt too happy about all the tennis i play, but she knows it makes me happy.

Quote:

I'm actually curious - how do you exactly qualify for a spot in a Futures qualifying round? Do you have to have a national/sectional ranking or something? and how many people from the qualifying round get a spot in the main draw? and how big are futures tournaments usually, in terms of the draw size? 32, 64? (guess that depends on location and time of the year?)

I'm a 4.5 too but earning an ATP point has never even crossed my mind for a split second, ever. There are just way too many people much much better than me. I couldn't even win an intramural tournament at my school, and there're probably hundreds of people better than me in my town alone.
usually the futures tourns will have 32 in the main draw and i think like 32 in the qualy draw where only 4 ppl will get a Q spot into the main draw. the qualies u need a ranking either itf or locally to be directly accepted. otherwise you will need to play a tourn like the costa mesa tourn with the link in the orignal post to qualify for the qualifying draw.
as for earning at atp point, i would be very proud of this. in order to get one atp point you need to make the round of 16 in the main draw of a futures event. to do this you would need to win the costa mesa prequalifying, then win 3 or 4 matches in the qualifying, and then one match in the main draw. not an easy feat. i wouldnt tell people bragging about it, more in a novelty way saying your considered the 1500th best player in the world. however pursuing one point would be more for something to strive towards so i can train and feel like its for something.

Quote:

Hey mate
I will also be playing in the Jackie Tatum Classic and the Lakewood Open. If you are interested, do you want to play doubles with me? as i am in search for a partner for both tourny's
i might be able to play some doubles in the lakewood. i already have a partner for the jackie tatum if the doubs draw gets large enough. once the tourn gets a little closer and we see how large the draw gets ill let you know. but im always down to hit for practice if ur ever in the long beach orange county area

ethon 06-19-2011 01:53 PM

Good luck! This looks like a great goal to work towards

benny444 06-19-2011 04:21 PM

Sounds good mate, i will be staying in Long Beach from the 6th til the 13th July for the Lakewood open, so yeah i'd be up for some hits when im there.

jdubbs 06-20-2011 12:49 PM

Ok, lets be honest. This is a very unrealistic goal. There's no way you can go from a 4.5 to going through a futures qualifying to get to a main draw of a pro tournament and win a match there to get a point.

The level at these tournaments is so high...you have no idea. A 4.5 will get crushed, even a 5.0 or 5.5 will lose every time. And I mean every time.

I know of former pros around your age or older that have had ATP points in the past and still consistently lose at qualifying rounds of challengers and futures. And I mean lose 6-1, 6-0. Those days are gone for you.

Keep playing a lot of tennis, try to consistently win at the 4.5 level. Then progress to 5.0.

But you're 26, not 16. You don't play and train 8 hours a day like the aspirational pros do. ATP points are out of the question.

A better goal would be to try to compete and win cash at Open tournaments one day.

gregor.b 06-20-2011 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdubbs (Post 5760857)
Ok, lets be honest. This is a very unrealistic goal. There's no way you can go from a 4.5 to going through a futures qualifying to get to a main draw of a pro tournament and win a match there to get a point.

The level at these tournaments is so high...you have no idea. A 4.5 will get crushed, even a 5.0 or 5.5 will lose every time. And I mean every time.

I know of former pros around your age or older that have had ATP points in the past and still consistently lose at qualifying rounds of challengers and futures. And I mean lose 6-1, 6-0. Those days are gone for you.

Keep playing a lot of tennis, try to consistently win at the 4.5 level. Then progress to 5.0.

But you're 26, not 16. You don't play and train 8 hours a day like the aspirational pros do. ATP points are out of the question.

A better goal would be to try to compete and win cash at Open tournaments one day.

Ouch!.......

onehandbh 06-20-2011 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdubbs (Post 5760857)
Ok, lets be honest. This is a very unrealistic goal. There's no way you can go from a 4.5 to going through a futures qualifying to get to a main draw of a pro tournament and win a match there to get a point.

The level at these tournaments is so high...you have no idea. A 4.5 will get crushed, even a 5.0 or 5.5 will lose every time. And I mean every time.

I know of former pros around your age or older that have had ATP points in the past and still consistently lose at qualifying rounds of challengers and futures. And I mean lose 6-1, 6-0. Those days are gone for you.

Keep playing a lot of tennis, try to consistently win at the 4.5 level. Then progress to 5.0.

But you're 26, not 16. You don't play and train 8 hours a day like the aspirational pros do. ATP points are out of the question.

A better goal would be to try to compete and win cash at Open tournaments one day.

There is some truth to this. You'd have to beat someone like Jeff Tarango
who still sometimes plays this pre-qualifying open tournaments.

GRANITECHIEF 06-20-2011 02:47 PM

I'd be more afraid of getting slapped by Jeff T's wife than playing against him.

darrinbaker00 06-20-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRANITECHIEF (Post 5761180)
I'd be more afraid of getting slapped by Jeff T's wife than playing against him.

They aren't together anymore.

snark 06-21-2011 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdubbs (Post 5760857)
Ok, lets be honest. This is a very unrealistic goal. There's no way you can go from a 4.5 to going through a futures qualifying to get to a main draw of a pro tournament and win a match there to get a point.

The level at these tournaments is so high...you have no idea. A 4.5 will get crushed, even a 5.0 or 5.5 will lose every time. And I mean every time.

I know of former pros around your age or older that have had ATP points in the past and still consistently lose at qualifying rounds of challengers and futures. And I mean lose 6-1, 6-0. Those days are gone for you.

Keep playing a lot of tennis, try to consistently win at the 4.5 level. Then progress to 5.0.

But you're 26, not 16. You don't play and train 8 hours a day like the aspirational pros do. ATP points are out of the question.

A better goal would be to try to compete and win cash at Open tournaments one day.


Come on, a guy can dream. He is a good player and will be better in the future. It is a long shot but not impossible.

goober 06-21-2011 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snark (Post 5763063)
Come on, a guy can dream. He is a good player and will be better in the future. It is a long shot but not impossible.

Crushing pipe dreams are part of the TW experience:)

Well if you think this is bad go to the travel forum where a nice long thread about some 43 year old guy is basically trying to do the same thing and get a ATP point -but he has been only playing tennis for 2-3 years.

Devilito 06-21-2011 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snark (Post 5763063)
Come on, a guy can dream. He is a good player and will be better in the future. It is a long shot but not impossible.

jdubbs is right, it's impossible. A 50/50 record in 5.0 events will be difficult. Open events you might be looking at 1 win for every 5 losses, at a higher level cash Open it's more like 1 win for every 10-20 losses and at the Futures level it would be %100 losses. Even if you win 1 match due to injury you need to squeeze out 3-4 wins in a row to even have a sniff at 1 point. Can a mid 20s 4.5 improve? Of course. You can bust your *** and eventually have fun playing some good quality Open level events. But the jump from a standard Open to Futures is huge. If you’re a 4.5 rated 14 year old you might have a shot.

jdubbs 06-21-2011 09:26 AM

I don't mean to sound crass or try to crush your dreams. I played a money open tournament a few weeks ago. I was coming in playing great tennis, crushed a 4.5 at my club that week, so had hopes I could at least get a few games. And, in fact, I did win my first match against a local high school player.

But in the 2nd round, a local junior college player toyed with me before destroying me completely, 6-0, 6-0. And he went on to get destroyed in the next match. And THAT winner got destroyed in the next one by a guy who used to have ATP points. And the former pro then lost in straight sets in the semi's.

And none of these guys would be able to win a futures first round match, or even get through the qualies. Those guys live and breathe tennis, training every day for hours with no other distractions.

So play a lot and progress, and then try your hand at money open tournaments, and you will see what I'm talking about.

yonexpurestorm 06-21-2011 10:13 AM

Believe me, i know its almost an impossibility to win an atp point. i dont see it as something that has a high percentage of happening. to me, its more like a pipe dream. something to work toward. obviously i have goals and objectives that i want to accomplish that are more achievable than winning an atp point. but after each objective there is always another, so yes i set the bar high. i did this in order to keep myself trying to improve my game to the next level. and if (big if) i ever do win a futures match i will set the bar even higher.
i told my girlfriend that my main goal was to try and win enough money playing tennis just to cover the expenses( strings, entry fees, racquets, shoes, grips, etc.) and this alone will be difficult. i have started and income statement for just tennis expenditures. but without dreams and goals you cant achieve anything of importance.
i knew when i started this post i would have a lot of people telling me its impossible. if i saw a thready like this i would probably tell the guy hes crazy too. either way my tennis is going to improve by leaps and bounds, i will have a fun time doing it, i will get into great shape, and maybe even win a little cash to cover my tennis expense. and for the people reading this thread, they might enjoy watching my progress as i crash and burn or watch me become so awsomely great at tennis and see my last update after the US open i just won. either way i think it will be fun to track my tournament experiences.

snark 06-21-2011 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilito (Post 5763139)
jdubbs is right, it's impossible. A 50/50 record in 5.0 events will be difficult. Open events you might be looking at 1 win for every 5 losses, at a higher level cash Open it's more like 1 win for every 10-20 losses and at the Futures level it would be %100 losses. Even if you win 1 match due to injury you need to squeeze out 3-4 wins in a row to even have a sniff at 1 point. Can a mid 20s 4.5 improve? Of course. You can bust your *** and eventually have fun playing some good quality Open level events. But the jump from a standard Open to Futures is huge. If you’re a 4.5 rated 14 year old you might have a shot.

I disagree. It depends on how much time you are willing to put into training/conditioning. The guy is a strong 4.5 (maybe close to 5.0) at 26 years old. If he can spend 3-4 hours per day training (difficult given the usual life constraints, but certainly possible) he could be a strong 5.5 within 1-2 years. At that level an ATP point is not out of the question.

Again, I agree that it is unlikely, but not impossible.

snark 06-21-2011 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober (Post 5763108)
Crushing pipe dreams are part of the TW experience:)

Well if you think this is bad go to the travel forum where a nice long thread about some 43 year old guy is basically trying to do the same thing and get a ATP point -but he has been only playing tennis for 2-3 years.


Now that IS a long shot!

snark 06-21-2011 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yonexpurestorm (Post 5763490)
Believe me, i know its almost an impossibility to win an atp point. i dont see it as something that has a high percentage of happening. to me, its more like a pipe dream. something to work toward. obviously i have goals and objectives that i want to accomplish that are more achievable than winning an atp point. but after each objective there is always another, so yes i set the bar high. i did this in order to keep myself trying to improve my game to the next level. and if (big if) i ever do win a futures match i will set the bar even higher.
i told my girlfriend that my main goal was to try and win enough money playing tennis just to cover the expenses( strings, entry fees, racquets, shoes, grips, etc.) and this alone will be difficult. i have started and income statement for just tennis expenditures. but without dreams and goals you cant achieve anything of importance.
i knew when i started this post i would have a lot of people telling me its impossible. if i saw a thready like this i would probably tell the guy hes crazy too. either way my tennis is going to improve by leaps and bounds, i will have a fun time doing it, i will get into great shape, and maybe even win a little cash to cover my tennis expense. and for the people reading this thread, they might enjoy watching my progress as i crash and burn or watch me become so awsomely great at tennis and see my last update after the US open i just won. either way i think it will be fun to track my tournament experiences.


Go for it, man. Try hard and if it does not work, so be it. If you listen to every doubter, you would never get anywhere.


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