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-   -   Problem with head compressed after strung (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=390690)

Shangri La 07-28-2011 03:54 PM

Problem with head compressed after strung
 
I noticed some of my racquets head are shortened by a couple of mm longitudinally after strung. When I string I make sure racquet is mounted properly, and I dont have too much of a tension difference in mains/crosses - e.g. M:gut54/X:poly50. What else could contribute to the head compression? Thanks.

Steve Huff 07-28-2011 07:09 PM

Cheap machine that isn't that sturdy. If it's a Head racket, you may want to try stringing the crosses a little tighter than the mains.

lethalfang 07-28-2011 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shangri La (Post 5865266)
I noticed some of my racquets head are shortened by a couple of mm longitudinally after strung. When I string I make sure racquet is mounted properly, and I dont have too much of a tension difference in mains/crosses - e.g. M:gut54/X:poly50. What else could contribute to the head compression? Thanks.

If, after stringing, there is a greater total tension longitudinally than there is latitudinally, the racquet head will shorten.
Not a problem.
But if you're curious, you can decrease main tensions and/or increase cross tensions to even them out.

Irvin 07-29-2011 03:16 AM

Newton's third law
 
The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear.

When you string a racket on a two point stringer the two points support the racket from bending inward. Many inexpensive two point machine do not hold well.

When you string a racket on a six point stringer the two points at the top and bottom support the racket from bending inward. As the frame tries to bend inwards from the top and bottom the sides try to bend outward. The four supports on the sides of a six point support the racket from bending outward and help prevent the frame from bending inward from the top and bottom.

If your racket is shorter it is wider too or more circular. This causes the racket to be under stress while you are playing with it because the strings are what is keeping the racket deformed. Therefore, there is more tension on your main strings that you have on the crosses because the frame is trying to return back to it normal state.

Irvin

lethalfang 07-29-2011 10:13 AM

I don't believe it's due to the mounting.
I believe it is a simple fact that, it is nearly impossible to find the perfectly equalizing tension, such that the compressing force from the mains cancels out exactly the elongating force from the crosses.

Irvin 07-29-2011 10:40 AM

^^If that were true since there are more crosses than mains the greater force would be on the sides and you would have a longer racket.

Irvin

lethalfang 07-29-2011 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 5866824)
^^If that were true since there are more crosses than mains the greater force would be on the sides and you would have a longer racket.

Irvin

Due to the substantial amount of friction caused by the mains when a cross is strung, the tension actually "felt" by the cross string and the racquet is less than the force that you're pulling it.

Irvin 07-30-2011 01:57 AM

This may help you if it is not a mounting issue. Some people seem to really like it.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...13#post5868113

Irvin

MarrratSafin 07-30-2011 02:21 AM

Irvin is correct, it's all about the mounting. I've restored more than a few shortened/deformed frames, mostly Head frames, back to original by simply 'stretching' the frame by the exact measurement. Btw I use a 6-pointer and I'm not sure if it'd work with a 2-pointer. So for example if it's 2mm short, just stretch the frame by 2mm with the 12 o'clock mount the next time you string it and it will come out perfect, trust me. Also it depends on your machine. On certain 6-pointers, there is more flex than usual and the frame needs to be stretched a few mm's for every stringjob to ensure it comes out the same.

Regarding the tension for mains and crosses, it's not really an issue if the difference is not too big. Even with Head frames I've done the crosses 3-4 lbs lower than the mains in a full-bed setup before (same string both mains and crosses) and with the correct mounting it always comes out perfect. I'd imagine the frame would start to deform if the difference is like 8 lbs in a full-bed setup.:) But of course, if it's a poly/multi hybrid it'd most likely be fine to string the multi 8 lbs higher than the poly.

SteveI 07-30-2011 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lethalfang (Post 5866752)
I don't believe it's due to the mounting.
I believe it is a simple fact that, it is nearly impossible to find the perfectly equalizing tension, such that the compressing force from the mains cancels out exactly the elongating force from the crosses.

Hi,

In most cases it is due to a certain type of frame (some of the Heads) and a poor mounting/support system.. or just bad mounting by the user. If you are using a Klippermate or one of lower end 2-point systems.. there is your problem. You will indeed need to stretch the frame when mounting. The question has been asked many.. many times. All the Klippermate users will swear it never happens to them. Do a Head Radical on a Klippermate and you will get compression unless you stretch the frame when mounting.

I moved from a Klippermate to a 6-point Alpha and have never seen the problem since. Not once..

Shangri La 08-01-2011 04:33 PM

Thanks for all the advice guys. I have a Silent partner swing, which is basically a 2-point system. I don't want to string cross tighter because of the string bed feel. I have this shortening problem with a HEAD prestige youteck and POG OS, but not on Boris Becker London. And I *think* the HEAD and POG, when previously strung by pro/TW, didnt have this problem.

I've thought about but am hesitant to stretch the frame longitudinally when mounting, because I think it will completely screw up the tensions.

What I'm thinking of doing are

- Not increasing the tensions of the last mains when tie off. I always increase 10 lbs to compensate for tension loss but I dont think last main tension matters to performance.

- Increasing the first and last 2 or 3 crosses tension by 1 to 2 pounds.

By doing so I will reduce the longitudinal tension by about 25 lbs which should help.

spillai 08-08-2011 07:42 PM

I just finished stringing my head youtek radical pro. the frame is now wider. Can you please explain the stretching of the head process. I am using a gamma x-2

Bud 08-08-2011 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spillai (Post 5887354)
I just finished stringing my head youtek radical pro. the frame is now wider. Can you please explain the stretching of the head process. I am using a gamma x-2

Happens to many Head frames (Radicals, Prestiges, Pro Tours, etc.) regardless of 2 vs 6-point stringing.

Next time, string the crosses 10 lbs. higher and the frame won't round out or shorten by a couple mm.

jgrushing 08-09-2011 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveI (Post 5868207)
Hi,

In most cases it is due to a certain type of frame (some of the Heads) and a poor mounting/support system.. or just bad mounting by the user. If you are using a Klippermate or one of lower end 2-point systems.. there is your problem. You will indeed need to stretch the frame when mounting. The question has been asked many.. many times. All the Klippermate users will swear it never happens to them. Do a Head Radical on a Klippermate and you will get compression unless you stretch the frame when mounting.

I moved from a Klippermate to a 6-point Alpha and have never seen the problem since. Not once..

I hate it when people call out a brand as being a problem. I've strung hundreds of racquets on a Klippermate over a twenty year time period. I've compressed one racquet head--mine fortunately. It was because I forgot to tighten one of the mounting supports. That could happen on any stringer. If you compress racquet heads with a Klippermate, it's because you don't mount the racquet properly or you're doing something really unusual. I don't think they'd be in business with essentially the same design for so long if the machine by it's nature damaged frames.

It's one thing when a company is known for poor quality and bad service. Klipper is not one of those companies.

Rabbit 08-09-2011 05:18 AM

I really can't believe some of what I'm reading. I string on a Neos and have never had a Head racquet "compress", or any other kind of racquet. Stringing 10 pounds higher to compensate? What of the end result?

Guys, short of it is, anytime a racquet compresses or shifts or the shape is different, then it is NOT a good thing. It's hard enough on a frame just stringing it normally, but all these suggested "fixes" are just plain scary. The problem here is either the mounting system used, or the way in which the frame was mounted.

Irvin 08-09-2011 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit (Post 5887844)
I really can't believe some of what I'm reading. I string on a Neos and have never had a Head racquet "compress", or any other kind of racquet. Stringing 10 pounds higher to compensate? What of the end result?

Guys, short of it is, anytime a racquet compresses or shifts or the shape is different, then it is NOT a good thing. It's hard enough on a frame just stringing it normally, but all these suggested "fixes" are just plain scary. The problem here is either the mounting system used, or the way in which the frame was mounted.

I could not agree more.

Irvin

jgrushing 08-09-2011 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveI (Post 5868207)
Do a Head Radical on a Klippermate and you will get compression unless you stretch the frame when mounting.

Sorry but that's complete BS. I've strung plenty of Radicals with no problem whatsoever. I simply mount the frame firmly, make sure it's secure and string the racquet. I've never purposely "stretched" a frame. Obviously, you didn't use the mounting on the KM well.

fortun8son 08-09-2011 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shangri La (Post 5873051)

- Not increasing the tensions of the last mains when tie off. I always increase 10 lbs to compensate for tension loss but I dont think last main tension matters to performance.

That will help. It is a controversial technique and the jury is still out on whether it even makes a difference in the way the racquet plays.
10lbs is a lot. I rarely do more than 5 and then only on hybrids where I'm stringing the crosses higher anyway.

Bud 08-09-2011 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit (Post 5887844)
I really can't believe some of what I'm reading. I string on a Neos and have never had a Head racquet "compress", or any other kind of racquet. Stringing 10 pounds higher to compensate? What of the end result?

Guys, short of it is, anytime a racquet compresses or shifts or the shape is different, then it is NOT a good thing. It's hard enough on a frame just stringing it normally, but all these suggested "fixes" are just plain scary. The problem here is either the mounting system used, or the way in which the frame was mounted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrushing (Post 5888331)
Sorry but that's complete BS. I've strung plenty of Radicals with no problem whatsoever. I simply mount the frame firmly, make sure it's secure and string the racquet. I've never purposely "stretched" a frame. Obviously, you didn't use the mounting on the KM well.

Many who have strung Head frames on this board (regardless of the mounting system) have noticed the heads occasionally round out slightly and the frames shorten by a couple of millimeters... depending on the main/cross tension and the type of string used.

It's nothing new and the subject has been raised numerous times. So, please don't act like a know-it-all and state it should never happen or it's an issue with the mounting system or the operator. It DOES happen and I've never noticed it apart from Head frames. The Prestige, Radical and PT 280/630 are infamous for rounding and shortening.

Just because you two have never noticed it doesn't mean it doesn't occur. How often do you measure the racquet's length when you finish stringing Head frames, BTW? ;)

Rabbit 08-10-2011 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud (Post 5889842)
Many who have strung Head frames on this board (regardless of the mounting system) have noticed the heads occasionally round out slightly and the frames shorten by a couple of millimeters... depending on the main/cross tension and the type of string used.

It's nothing new and the subject has been raised numerous times. So, please don't act like a know-it-all and state it should never happen or it's an issue with the mounting system or the operator. It DOES happen and I've never noticed it apart from Head frames. The Prestige, Radical and PT 280/630 are infamous for rounding and shortening.

Just because you two have never noticed it doesn't mean it doesn't occur. How often do you measure the racquet's length when you finish stringing Head frames, BTW? ;)

Granted I don't measure each racquet as it comes off the stringer. But adding 10 pounds for a few millimeters? I don't care who the stringer is or what machine they use, that is terrible advice. I have always been told that stringing crosses substantially higher than mains is also bad for the frame. This certainly qualifies as substantial.

And, I also don't randomly add 10 pounds tension to crosses to compensate which screws up a string job just to make the frame look right. Have you ever played with a frame strung with a 10 pound difference between the mains and crosses? That is totally hosed, and IMO, terrible advice. I'm not being a "know-it-all" when I validly criticize that advice. It's terrible advice, it's not solving the original problem, it ruins the feel of a string job, and it results in a terrible end product for whoever was unlucky enough to pay for that string job.

Let me ask you, if you took your frame to someone to be strung say at 60 pounds, would you want them to add 10 pounds on the crosses to "striaghten it out"? How do you think a string job at 60 on the mains and 70 on the crosses would play? Hell, even 55 on the mains and 65 on the crosses?

Again, I simply cannot believe some of the "advice" that is being handed out. I don't think the issue is a couple of millimeters as much as it is telling someone to 'add 10 pounds' or stretch a frame by applying force to it. And FYI, I've strung plenty of Head frames and never seen any noticeable difference in the head shape after stringing.


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