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-   -   Comparison of Federer Djokovic Nadal racquets. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=397653)

kiteboard 09-17-2011 05:43 PM

Comparison of Federer Djokovic Nadal racquets.
 
fed, joker, nadal framesComparison of Federer Djokovic Nadal racquets.
Federer: 90 sq. in.

Joker: 98 sq. in.

Nadal: 100 sq in.

Total mass:
Federer: 357g-364 depending on surface, foe, etc.

Joker: 361g according to Greg Raven.

Nadal: 334-336g according to Greg Raven.

Swing wt.:
Federer: 338g according to Greg Raven but I think it's more like 355g with all that lead under the grommets.


Joker: 371

Nadal: 355 according to Greg Raven.

RA:

Federer: 65

Joker: 51 according to Greg Raven but I think it's more like 63-65.

Nadal: 65 with the apd original, the one he uses.

Lay up:

Federer: similar to stock, with higher quality material. ( He used to have a more open drill pattern with the ncode, at 9 crosses rather than 10 in sweet spot area, but has the same pattern as stock now.)

Joker: custom, head lay up no one can buy.

Nadal: original apd lay up with lead under the grommet at 12 and under the butt.

Tension:

Federer: 48.5/45.7lbs vs team/alu

Joker: 61/59lbs vs team/alu

Nadal: used to use duralast for ten years, now uses RPM at 54/52lbs.

Feel of the sticks:

Federer: like a muted stone, with high power in the small sweet spot and iffy outside of it.

Joker: depends on if his RA is 51 or 65 like the h22 he used to use. Rock like power and control and depth off shots.


Nadal: stiff, light, head heavy, with a soft thud on the RPM, lots of spin, tough to serve and get power flat wise.

Grip size:



Federer: L3 with over grip

Joker: L4 with two over grips

Nadal: L2 with over grip.

Set up for their game:


Federer: demanding sweet spot with lots of power, smaller head size makes his 16 x 19 more like an 18 x 20.

Joker: 18 x 20, Perfect for his game, flat out power, great control, higher tension yet softer on the cross for more snap back control, more lead than the others on the inside of the frame, going down to below the last cross by about an inch or so.


Nadal: Total spin set up, 16 x 19 with a spin string, small grip for more torque and quicker rotation, stiff RA for power, head heavy for spin.

Moment of inertia for each:

20.33 for Nadal
20.65 for Fed
21 for Joker, giving him more plow through, but tougher to get moving, more depth, but more risk of going long by an inch.


Similarities: I think all three are at an RA of about 65, including Joker, who is listed at 51. I think all three sw are close, except joker is a little higher, with more lead than the others. So if all three are at 65 Ra, and all three are sw at 355g-371, that should tell us something. A high sw, and a high RA, allow for more power/plow through on shots. Fed's lower tension on a smaller head size gives the same snap back as Joker at 61/59lbs. Rafa has more snap back at 54/52lbs, in a 100 sq. in. apd frame, which would provide more spin. The lower snap back of Fed and Joker, in a tighter pattern, give them more depth/flatter trajectory and deeper landing shots than Rafa given the same force vectors applied to the bed. The vs team/alu combo, also gives more power than the rpm, which is a spin string, not a power string, and feels soft and thud like, not crisp and powerful as vs/alu feels, with RPMs hexagonal shape. Fed and Joker have power flat type set ups, and Rafa is all spin. But we already knew that by watching their games! Also the RA increases after the frames are strung, so their strung RAs are really about 2-3 points higher at 67-68 RA. That's a lot of pop for big hitters to control. Notice Murray at about 60-63 RA with his pt57A 16 x 19 alu/vs combo, strung at 62/61lbs, lighter mass at 347g, (he was at 364g but hurt his wrist) and his less powerful shots, with his more flexible frame and less powerful hybrid set up, as gut as cross is far less powerful than gut as main. (Hey, Murray, add the lead back on, switch the vs to the mains, and get a frame with an RA of 65, and talk to me about how much you like it. If you want to run with the big boys, you have to have the plow through, and they beat you up when it counts, as too many of your shots have not enough on them to counter the greater plow through of the stiffer RA, and gut as main.) Your equipment is holding you back and there is no way you are ever going to win a slam that way. Cut out the whining and the negativity, it only helps your opponents feel calmer and more sure about winning. So we will see if he has the heart to listen.
_____ fed lead tape
joker lead tape_____________

samster 09-17-2011 06:49 PM

Awesome. Thanks!

BreakPoint 09-17-2011 07:54 PM

I thought Djokovic's racquet is 95 sq. in. because it's based on the LM Radical MP mold (which is really 95 sq. in. and not 98 sq. in. as marketed)?

BreakPoint 09-17-2011 07:57 PM

Oh, BTW,

1. Federer's racquet has the same drill pattern as the retail K90/BLX90. The drill pattern is more widely spaced (not tighter) at the PWS than the retail PS Tour 90/nCode 90.

2. Nadal uses a L2 (4 1/4) grip size, not L3.

tlm 09-17-2011 08:18 PM

Hard to believe that rafa uses a hh racket, hh is better for serving and hard flat shots. Not good for fast racket speed and top spin.

kiteboard 09-17-2011 09:13 PM

Grinders often like a hh stick, for more whip on their fh.

Fed Kennedy 09-18-2011 01:58 AM

Good thread, but have you ever played with a tour 90? It is nothing like an 18x20. Huge bite from the mega open pattern. Esp. at 48 lbs

tlm 09-18-2011 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiteboard (Post 6013422)
Grinders often like a hh stick, for more whip on their fh.

You are saying that hh gives more whip? It is the complete opposite, hh gives less whip while obviously hl makes it easier for high racket head speed and whip.

kiteboard 09-18-2011 07:29 AM

More whip due to more mass at the 12 oclock position enables more whiplash in a vicious shot, like Nadal's.

Jules 09-18-2011 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fed Kennedy (Post 6013648)
Good thread, but have you ever played with a tour 90? It is nothing like an 18x20. Huge bite from the mega open pattern. Esp. at 48 lbs

+1
k six.one tour 90 has far more spin than e.g. Head Prestige MP.

sureshs 09-18-2011 08:17 AM

Your whole analysis falls apart if Djoko's RA does not turn out to be 65. If Greg Raven measured 51, what make you think otherwise? Any indirect evidence?

Also, 355 to 370 is a huge range when it comes to SW (whose unit is not grams, BTW).

I would say that the first spec is to have a strung weight greater than 12 oz. The balance used to more head-light in previous eras of graphite, but today's favored setup seems to be 4 or 6 points HL for more plowthru.

Povl Carstensen 09-18-2011 12:51 PM

Sorry if I missed something, but where does this "higher quality crystals" info come from?

Xizel 09-18-2011 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 6013903)
You are saying that hh gives more whip? It is the complete opposite, hh gives less whip while obviously hl makes it easier for high racket head speed and whip.

What he's saying is actually correct. If you understand racquet polarization, you'll understand why mass at 12 (and therefore HH) is better for more spin and whip.

HunterST 09-18-2011 01:04 PM

what's the deal with the uneven amounts of lead on Fed's racquets in the pictures?

Ash_Smith 09-18-2011 01:33 PM

^^^To balance out each racquet to the same spec's - likely they come out of the factory with different weights and balances.

cheers

TennisCJC 09-18-2011 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xizel (Post 6014502)
What he's saying is actually correct. If you understand racquet polarization, you'll understand why mass at 12 (and therefore HH) is better for more spin and whip.

Carlos Moya, another spanish clay courter, used a sub 11 oz racket that was very HH to generate loads of topspin. I always thought that was funny because Moya used to wear the sleeveless shirts with the big biceps and he was swinging a very light racket. I think his SW was quite high though due to the HH customization.

kiteboard 09-18-2011 02:39 PM

Guess who else is from Mallorca? Guess who mentored Nadal as a child? Guess who beat Moya when he was 14yrs. old? Guess which string Moya used to use? I think it's strange that a small island, with 567,000 people on it, would produce two #1 players. (moya was #1 for a week or so.)

kiteboard 09-18-2011 02:41 PM

2" different lead on frame to frame, side to side, is a lot of lead to explain factory differences in swing wt. I think some are set up head heavier for a reason, not that they all are matched to swing wt. fed lead tape. That's a lot of weight, 4" of lead on each side, 8" total, is about 7grams heavier, and Fed's frames are ranged from 357g-364g on purpose. It's not to balance out the specs, it's to give more plow through on some frames for serving/vs. returning. He switches them up.

kiteboard 09-18-2011 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 6014076)
Your whole analysis falls apart if Djoko's RA does not turn out to be 65. If Greg Raven measured 51, what make you think otherwise? Any indirect evidence?

Also, 355 to 370 is a huge range when it comes to SW (whose unit is not grams, BTW).

I would say that the first spec is to have a strung weight greater than 12 oz. The balance used to more head-light in previous eras of graphite, but today's favored setup seems to be 4 or 6 points HL for more plowthru.

My only evidence is empiric. I can't see the power/plow through on a 51RA frame he gets. I've hit with frames that soft, and there is no power there at all.

zapvor 09-18-2011 04:46 PM

i wonder how obsessed fed and co. is with their sticks


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