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SuperLotto 10-28-2011 02:38 PM

2012 Year End Ratings
 
Is there a cut off date for matches played that will impact 2012 ratings? I thought last year the cut off was 10/31 for calculations which came out end of November. Also, will there be a big bump this year. Has anyone heard anything'

dizzlmcwizzl 10-28-2011 04:23 PM

I heard that this was part of the USTA's three year plan to re adjust the rating levels ... but last year was year two and we did not see major re-adjustments.

I would expect less than 10% in each level will be moved up and few will be moved down.

dizzlmcwizzl 10-29-2011 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperLotto (Post 6087002)
Is there a cut off date for matches played that will impact 2012 ratings? I thought last year the cut off was 10/31 for calculations which came out end of November. Also, will there be a big bump this year. Has anyone heard anything'

I think, but do not know, that all matches played for the 2011 season count for the year end 2011 rating. So any nationals event between now and the end of the year count towards the 2011 year end rating. But any 2011 league that counts towards your 2011 rating should be over by now.

If you are in leagues that are technically for the 2012 season I do not think they count towards your rating 2011 rating.

lostinamerica 10-30-2011 03:56 PM

What all counts in the ratings? I heard Combo does not count. DOes the 40 and over count? Does Tri-Level count? Is it only league?

SuperLotto 10-30-2011 05:46 PM

I think all but mixed count. Mixed has its own rating. If you play mixed only you will get a rating with an M next to it.

dizzlmcwizzl 10-30-2011 05:51 PM

Districts have leaway in what they count or not.

If you play adult or senior tennis generally mixed, combo, tri level and tournies do not count.

If you play mixed exclusively ... you can get an M rating which is not much better than a self rate. Likewise tourney exclusive can get you a T rating which is also not very helpfull.

ian2 10-31-2011 08:25 AM

Surprisingly, it's quite difficult to answer this question. As dizzlmcwizzl mentioned, what counts and what doesn't count is up to individual districts. In general:

- mixed counts into it's own M rating. A player will only get this rating if he/she played mixed exclusively... or more precisely, if player played no more than two (or maybe three?) "eligible" non-mixed matches.
- tournaments count in some districts but not all. In districts where tournaments count, results from Age, Open, etc. are included into NTRP calculations.
- there is a cut-off date and it is (I believe) Oct 31. However, in some districts (the ones with "Early Start?) the cut-off date is much earlier... around end of August?

dizzlmcwizzl, I'm curious: why do you consider T (tournament-exclusive) rating "not very helpful"? I feel it's as "valid" as C rating. I agree though that M (mixed-exclusive) is a different animal...

J_R_B 10-31-2011 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian2 (Post 6090560)
Surprisingly, it's quite difficult to answer this question. As dizzlmcwizzl mentioned, what counts and what doesn't count is up to individual districts. In general:

- mixed counts into it's own M rating. A player will only get this rating if he/she played mixed exclusively... or more precisely, if player played no more than two (or maybe three?) "eligible" non-mixed matches.
- tournaments count in some districts but not all. In districts where tournaments count, results from Age, Open, etc. are included into NTRP calculations.
- there is a cut-off date and it is (I believe) Oct 31. However, in some districts (the ones with "Early Start?) the cut-off date is much earlier... around end of August?

dizzlmcwizzl, I'm curious: why do you consider T (tournament-exclusive) rating "not very helpful"? I feel it's as "valid" as C rating. I agree though that M (mixed-exclusive) is a different animal...

A T-Rating is not very helpful because if you decide to play league, a T rating doesn't exempt you from either self-rating or from a 3 strike disqualification.

Combo never counts towards a C rating because it is a sectional competition, not national, so there is no way to equate the ratings across sections.

g4driver 10-31-2011 09:15 AM

JRB,

I was told my our single's league coordinator USTA Single's doesn't count either. I don't know if USTA's Single's as a National Tournament or not.

I'm curious if you know if Adult Single's counts toward a your NTRP year-end ratings or not.

Islandtennis 10-31-2011 11:00 AM

The Districts do not decide what counts or not, the Sections do. The only difference between Sections that I am aware of is in regards to "T" ratings. Generally the only "League" that counts (besides mixed exclusive) is what is known in the Southern section as the Spring League.

The October deadline is because the National Playoffs have just finished up for the "Spring" league. This needs to be finished before benchmark ratings can be factored in.

G4, Singles League does not contribute to ratings in the Southern Section.

ian2 10-31-2011 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_R_B (Post 6090596)
A T-Rating is not very helpful because if you decide to play league, a T rating doesn't exempt you from either self-rating or from a 3 strike disqualification.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I guess the rationale here is that someone might be playing way "up" (or "down") in tournaments, and therefore a "true" rating might not be established?

ian2 10-31-2011 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandtennis (Post 6090892)
The Districts do not decide what counts or not, the Sections do.

Right... Like "Intermountain Section" vs. "Colorado District". Thanks for clarification!

dizzlmcwizzl 10-31-2011 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian2 (Post 6090560)
dizzlmcwizzl, I'm curious: why do you consider T (tournament-exclusive) rating "not very helpful"? I feel it's as "valid" as C rating. I agree though that M (mixed-exclusive) is a different animal...

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_R_B (Post 6090596)
A T-Rating is not very helpful because if you decide to play league, a T rating doesn't exempt you from either self-rating or from a 3 strike disqualification.

This ^^ (10 char)

J_R_B 10-31-2011 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian2 (Post 6090911)
Thanks, I didn't know that. I guess the rationale here is that someone might be playing way "up" (or "down") in tournaments, and therefore a "true" rating might not be established?

You'd have to get a definitive answer from a USTA representative, but I think it's because of the variability of the tournaments compared to league play. In other words, tournament directors can let anyone play any division that they want. League play has very strict rules regarding self-rating and eligibility controlled by a small number of people that can make sure the rules are at least applied uniformly (if not fairly, LOL). In addition, there are no "national" 4.0 tournaments and in general (at least around here), there are far fewer NTRP tournaments than league matches, so it is more difficult to balance the ratings across sections.

asked_answered 10-31-2011 12:03 PM

In Texas, we have three league seasons. (Summer is doubles only, though.) From past research (obsessing, really) on my part, I understand that the spring and summer results count toward year-end computer ratings, as do fall league results through October 31st. The tournament results of league players are also taken into consideration, although they aren't weighted very heavily.

ian2 10-31-2011 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_R_B (Post 6091033)
You'd have to get a definitive answer from a USTA representative, but I think it's because of the variability of the tournaments compared to league play. In other words, tournament directors can let anyone play any division that they want. League play has very strict rules regarding self-rating and eligibility controlled by a small number of people that can make sure the rules are at least applied uniformly (if not fairly, LOL). In addition, there are no "national" 4.0 tournaments and in general (at least around here), there are far fewer NTRP tournaments than league matches, so it is more difficult to balance the ratings across sections.

J_R_B, I don't think it's possible to get a definitive answer, because there is no definitive strategy in the first place, as evidenced by the fact that each Section can apply their own rules. But I agree with your point about stricter rules and more uniformity in league play as compared to tournaments.

As for balancing the ratings across sections: indeed USTA attempts to do this via national playoffs, and in the end it's possible that 4.0 in SoCal = 4.0 MN - but not due "rebalancing". It's quite obvious that the idea is based on faulty assumptions that a) teams that make it to the playoffs represent an overall level of play in their section, and b) a very small statistical sample (national payoffs) could be extrapolated down to each section and ultimately each player. The former may or may not be true, and the latter is patently bad statistics.

cll30 10-31-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asked_answered (Post 6091034)
In Texas, * * * The tournament results of league players are also taken into consideration, although they aren't weighted very heavily.

Not sure I understand why this would be. Sometimes I've played against the same players in a tournament that I've played in league. Seems like the computer could sort all of that out.

asked_answered 10-31-2011 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cll30 (Post 6091233)
Not sure I understand why this would be. Sometimes I've played against the same players in a tournament that I've played in league. Seems like the computer could sort all of that out.

I'm guessing that it's a general rule applied to all tournament results due to programming challenges associated with unrated players and players who only participate in tournaments.

dcdoorknob 10-31-2011 02:37 PM

Ok, just for clarification, lets say I played 3 leagues this year, adult 3.5, tri-level doubles, and mixed. Am I correct in thinking that only the adult league matches will count towards my rating? The tri-level doubles and mixed matches (even post-season matches) have no weight whatsoever for my rating?

asked_answered 10-31-2011 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoorknob (Post 6091304)
Ok, just for clarification, lets say I played 3 leagues this year, adult 3.5, tri-level doubles, and mixed. Am I correct in thinking that only the adult league matches will count towards my rating? The tri-level doubles and mixed matches (even post-season matches) have no weight whatsoever for my rating?

Mixed won't count, but I don't know about tri-level. The tri-level results might count, if you were on a 3.5 to 4.5 team (no self-rated players allowed on such teams).


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