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-   -   How Rafa improved his serve? Coach Oscar Borras suing Team Nadal for recognition (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=402508)

XSTF 11-04-2011 09:55 AM

How Rafa improved his serve? Coach Oscar Borras suing Team Nadal for recognition
 
From a teaching professional point of view this is great video watching one of the greatest players of the modern era take a serving lesson. The message here is that you are never good enough to go back to basics.
Rafa and his camp has denied to the press that Oscar helped his serve. Yesterday 11/3/11 in Spain Nadal was asked about the video and the lesson, he said the only thing Oscar did was to waste his time for 1/2 hr.

http://youtu.be/GljqJv84tTI

sureshs 11-04-2011 12:13 PM

3 important facts from the video:

1. Always make a coach sign a NDA contract before bringing him on, to avoid having inside information made public
2. The usefulness of video analysis (both in the video itself, and how Isner's serve video is being analyzed by Oscar)
3. Rafa picks his butt even in practice (around 10:36)

tennis_balla 11-04-2011 12:27 PM

In my opinion this video should of never been released and I'm not surprised Nadal doesn't want to give credit. I'm sure he's pretty ****ed about it.

There are good things to be taken and learned from that video such as that even pro's work on very simple and what some might think are basic things. However, that video should of never been made public.

sureshs 11-04-2011 12:31 PM

I will be suing anyone here who reads my tips and goes on to become a famous player.

tennis_balla 11-04-2011 12:33 PM

I don't think you have to worry about that one sureshs.

To go back to my post, I saw the video a few days ago and think its great however I understand Rafa's position and in my opinion Oscar Borras should not of released it.

sureshs 11-04-2011 12:35 PM

I sense collusion between Oscar and the coach who made this youtube video. I think this guy is helping him out and bringing an international flavor to the issue.

More than Oscar, I question the motivations of this guy. Why? Isn't it just a highly pious sounding video (this is all meant to help you understand how to serve) made with material which should not have been accepted in the first place? A whole lot of deception here. I don't trust this guy at all.

goober 11-04-2011 12:52 PM

This is the first I have heard of a coach suing to get credit for a stroke improvement. What is the purpose of the lawsuit? To gain noteriety for yourself and to "prove" to the public you are an elite coach? Pretty pathetic...

Lots of pros show improvement in a stroke or fitness or some other aspect of their game over the course of their careers. Whether they choose to give public credit to a specific person is their personal choice. Whether or not this coach actually helped him is all in Nadal's perception. If Nadal thinks this guy wasted his time and says so pubically, then it doesn't matter what this guy claims.

sureshs 11-04-2011 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober (Post 6098003)
What is the purpose of the lawsuit?

To coax some settlement money out of a celebrity by shaming him

charliefedererer 11-04-2011 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSTF (Post 6097588)
From a teaching professional point of view this is great video watching one of the greatest players of the modern era take a serving lesson. The message here is that you are never good enough to go back to basics.
Rafa and his camp has denied to the press that Oscar helped his serve. Yesterday 11/3/11 in Spain Nadal was asked about the video and the lesson, he said the only thing Oscar did was to waste his time for 1/2 hr.

http://youtu.be/GljqJv84tTI

Thanks for posting. I've enjoyed many of your videos. Probably my two favorites are the tossing video (keep your tossing arm parallel to the baseline like the pros) and the analysis of the Federer/Henin backhand ("the little L"). This serve video will join them as not just a glimpse at Rafa working on his serve, but how anyone can break down their service motion to work on different parts, then build it back up again.

julien posted this video yesterday during a discussion of Jim McLennan's kick serve video. I would have missed it except Will Hamilton (Fuzzy Yellow Balls) posted a "thank you" for the interesting video.

I hope you will continue to bring your insights to us on talk tennis.



I do remember seeing your analysis of Nadal's serve changes last year:
Nadal's new serve: It's not just a grip Adjustment! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfA3RlAXpdg

But some above have questioned your relationship with Oscar Borras. Do you think Oscar gave you the footage of him with Rafa in anticipation of you posting it to help substantiate his claims for changing his serve?

And what is your take on Oscar's "lawsuit"? Just what is he suing over? Is this a "publicity stunt" to bring attention to himself and his tennis academy?
A coach sues to recognize that Nadal has improved his serve http://latestsports-update.blogspot....nadal-has.html

Bartelby 11-04-2011 04:53 PM

Given the amount of money financial advisors get for losing your money, coaches are undervalued and underpaid.

Limpinhitter 11-04-2011 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSTF (Post 6097588)
From a teaching professional point of view this is great video watching one of the greatest players of the modern era take a serving lesson. The message here is that you are never good enough to go back to basics.
Rafa and his camp has denied to the press that Oscar helped his serve. Yesterday 11/3/11 in Spain Nadal was asked about the video and the lesson, he said the only thing Oscar did was to waste his time for 1/2 hr.

http://youtu.be/GljqJv84tTI

I think it's pretty clear that Ralph incorporated some of what was on the video into his serve. Whether it helped much is debatable. But, it's also pretty clear to me that this coach doesn't fully understand the serve, or, how to throw a ball. As a result, he was focusing on symptoms rather than the disease.

IMO, alhtough Ralph does get a good shoulder turn in his windup, the missing element in Ralph's serve is that he doesn't get a sufficient shoulder tilt and spine angle to rotate his upper body around. As a result, his serve is mostly an arm swing with little support from upper body rotation. The focus on Ralphs arm position in the trophy pose without understanding that it was being caused by having level shoulders in the trophy position (aka: Jimmy Connors syndrome), is why the lesson wasn't particularly valuable as far as I'm concerned.

Ryoma 11-04-2011 06:42 PM

Consider he might be the 1000th coach asking Nadal to throw a tennis ball as serve advice, I honestly don't see where his credit is. And Nadal probably had his serve compared with all top servers on tour. I think some of these coaches need to understand that pretty much everyone nowadays has the technology to do that right at the comfort of their own home.

The key is really where you can provide the "insight" as to how to DO it. Everyone has seen Federer's forehand and there are tons of video analysis. Where's your federer forehand?

Mountain Ghost 11-04-2011 07:30 PM

Rafa Serving Lesson
 
Fascinating Video. I'm amazed Rafa and his uncle let this video be made. Even more amazed it made its way to YouTube. As for the changes, the early and full elbow bend of 90 degrees is what I see as a major key to his better serve.

Suing for credit is quite bold, considering there are a thousand pros that could have fixed details in that serve if given the chance. But when I fix Federer's down-the-line backhand, I imagine I might want to be mentioned as helpful too. We'll see!

MG

Lawn Tennis 11-04-2011 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSTF (Post 6097588)
From a teaching professional point of view this is great video watching one of the greatest players of the modern era take a serving lesson. The message here is that you are never good enough to go back to basics.
Rafa and his camp has denied to the press that Oscar helped his serve. Yesterday 11/3/11 in Spain Nadal was asked about the video and the lesson, he said the only thing Oscar did was to waste his time for 1/2 hr.

http://youtu.be/GljqJv84tTI

Thanks excellent post

arche3 11-05-2011 02:11 AM

I still don't see how suing Nadal makes any sense. Nadal has probably had the same things told him countless times.

purge 11-05-2011 02:27 AM

something else thats related here..

do you think that his new service motion could also be key to the problems hes having with djokovic right now?

in that part of the video where it was about rafas tossing arm coming too far back and not staying out in front unabling him to fully transfer his weight into the raquet and forward into the court as if he was going to S&V i immediately thought about how much he has struggled with djokovics returns this year.
the problem usually being that his new service motion is getting him too far into the court and he is not able to take a step back from there in time to get ready for a deep return, which youll constantly get from djokovic this season.
i lost count just on how many times a deep return from djokovic landed on rafas shoes during the wimby or USO finals forcing rafa to UE or at least give a weak response that novak could take advantage of to get himself into a good position early in the point.

i think this immediate step back to the baseline after your front foot touches ground at the end of the service motion is something very vital in the pros game (unless of course youre going to charge anyway). cause if you get a short return there will still be enough time to step back into the court but if you get a deep one youre sitting duck at a couple feet into the court.
if nadal somehow manages to take a faster step back right after he touches ground i think he would get under alot less pressure in his service games against djokovic right now

arche3 11-05-2011 02:42 AM

Hmmm... Maybe Nadal needs to countersue the coach for messing up his serve? It is an interesting point you raise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by purge (Post 6098757)
something else thats related here..

do you think that his new service motion could also be key to the problems hes having with djokovic right now?

in that part of the video where it was about rafas tossing arm coming too far back and not staying out in front unabling him to fully transfer his weight into the raquet and forward into the court as if he was going to S&V i immediately thought about how much he has struggled with djokovics returns this year.
the problem usually being that his new service motion is getting him too far into the court and he is not able to take a step back from there in time to get ready for a deep return, which youll constantly get from djokovic this season.
i lost count just on how many times a deep return from djokovic landed on rafas shoes during the wimby or USO finals forcing rafa to UE or at least give a weak response that novak could take advantage of to get himself into a good position early in the point.

i think this immediate step back to the baseline after your front foot touches ground at the end of the service motion is something very vital in the pros game (unless of course youre going to charge anyway). cause if you get a short return there will still be enough time to step back into the court but if you get a deep one youre sitting duck at a couple feet into the court.
if nadal somehow manages to take a faster step back right after he touches ground i think he would get under alot less pressure in his service games against djokovic right now


sureshs 11-05-2011 05:32 AM

It is bizarre. Doesn't a coach's compensation end when he is paid? Can every teacher of Bill Gates sue to get recognition?

arche3 11-05-2011 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 6098858)
It is bizarre. Doesn't a coach's compensation end when he is paid? Can every teacher of Bill Gates sue to get recognition?

I agree. It is as if this coach thinks he is what made Nadal win the us open. Weird.

Bartelby 11-05-2011 07:21 AM

So why does uncle toni get paid?

He seems to be suing for some right to moral/intellectual recognition which must exist under Spanish law.


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