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-   -   With each passing season, doesn't Federer get worse? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=406927)

Mike Sams 12-22-2011 03:36 PM

With each passing season, doesn't Federer get worse?
 
2010...his last great showing at a Slam as he won the AO and lost in the QF and SF stages for the 3 remaining Slams.

2011...made 1 final, lost the rest in the QF and SF stages.

Yet Federer and his fans still remain upbeat about his chances of winning more Slams and regaining the #1 ranking.:-?

I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.

DjokovicForTheWin 12-22-2011 03:41 PM

Murray has to be his friend.

_maxi 12-22-2011 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Sams (Post 6187502)
2010...his last great showing at a Slam as he won the AO and lost in the QF and SF stages for the 3 remaining Slams.

2011...made 1 final, lost the rest in the QF and SF stages.

Yet Federer and his fans still remain upbeat about his chances of winning more Slams and regaining the #1 ranking.:-?

I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.

Yes, he gets worse. But I don't think the 2010 Federer was much better than the 2011 Federer. Both were worse than 2004-2007, but 2010-2011 Federer, and 2012, still has the chance, of winning one and maybe two slams before retirement. Doesn't mean he will, but he can. That's it.
Winning one slam, making a final or two, and winning some masters, can push him to #1 if we have a year where nobody dominates. Just like it used to happen in the past before the Federer era.

Pwned 12-22-2011 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Sams (Post 6187502)
2010...his last great showing at a Slam as he won the AO and lost in the QF and SF stages for the 3 remaining Slams.

2011...made 1 final, lost the rest in the QF and SF stages.

Yet Federer and his fans still remain upbeat about his chances of winning more Slams and regaining the #1 ranking.:-?

I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.

Federer doesn't necessarily have to beat them back to back. And nobody on here knows anything about future results.

Nathaniel_Near 12-22-2011 03:52 PM

I think if Roger was to have one year where he makes a one final big push for greatness then it's 2012. Yep, his decline will continue and honestly I see him winning maybe 1 final slam or maybe 0, neither would surprise me.

ultradr 12-22-2011 03:56 PM

Federer is certainly capable of winning another slam, IMHO. But he appeared
to be losing grip on slams this year, showing difficulties with top 10 players.

Then this his resurgence in 2011 indoor seasons: was it real resurgence or
top players basically tanked in this increasingly irrelevant indoor season ?

We will know by the main tennis season between Roland Garros and US Open
2012...

TheMusicLover 12-22-2011 04:01 PM

Fed has been in decline ever since 2008. I know there are certain fans having come up with whatever excuses you can think of - you name it, mono (yes it had its influence, but just don't exaggerate it), "he doesn't care anymore", etc.

Fact is, no player stays on top forever, and Fed has already done an awesome job when it comes to consistency. He's dropped a few paces by now, such should be obvious. But as long as he remains in the top #4, he'll remain a contender for yet another slam title. Never count out a great champion like he is.

That said, even if he will remain at 16 GS titles, Fed fans will have nothing to complain about. I am just very happy that his decline seems to be a very gradual one, and am hoping for some late brilliancy from him in what might well be his last season.

Mick 12-22-2011 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Sams (Post 6187502)
I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.

his fans hope that federer could pull off what jimmy connors has done, win a grand slam title at 31. federer has nadal and djokovic and connors had lendl and mcenroe, they were pretty tough too :)

Crazy man 12-22-2011 04:24 PM

It's the opposite actually. Federer has been improving each year. His footwork is what he's improved the most and this has translated into less errors in his game. The problem is guys like Nadal, Murray & Djokovic from Tsonga to Soderling have also been improving. Chumps like Roddick, Safin, Hewitt, Agassi, Nalbandian provided no challenege for Federer - hence why Federer struggles to beat guys as talented as himself (because he was caught off guard and couldn't deal with sudden challenges after playing chumps for years).



One of the things that Federer has improved the most is the forehand. Yep, it's not as strong as Djokovic's, Nadal's of Murray's but it's definately in the league just behind it (with Tsonga and Soderling) . Murray I think beats Federer in the forehand department simply because of the angles he can produce.


His backhand is as good as it was when Federer was supposedly better than ever (rofl....to think Federer's 05 level of play trumps 08+).


His serve has also improved, it's now a weapon singularly now.


His return....His return has improved. Guys like Roddick have good serves, but the game has improved on so many levels, Federer can break Roddick two or three times back in 05 but there are so many better servers (and players come to think of it) than Roddick. Someone like Tsonga is one - Federer was hopeless against him at Wimbledon due to Tsonga's serving ability. So again, Federer's return is good and was good against the average servers but not against the brilliance of the current generation.








To summarise, Federer is playing his best tennis ever each passing year and continues to improve. The fact is so are others who can play at a level as high as Federer. Federer didn't benefit from playing mediocre opponents and is now paying the price for it by not being able to step up to challeneges.









Federer's 2011 level would have seen him win all four slams in 2004 and 2005. Maybe even 2006 and 2007.

FlashFlare11 12-22-2011 04:26 PM

Yes, he's declining. But when you're 30, there's not much to improve right.

We're still upbeat because if you look at the past year, it took an oustanding efforts from Djokovic, Nadal, and Tsonga to beat him. He still gives himself numerous chances and his losses were literally decided by a few points.

Besides, I think the majority of Federer fans just love to see him play. I know I'll be in tears the day he decides to retire and the thought of tennis without Federer is difficult to fathom. He's achieved everything there is so there's not much left but to enjoy the game.

Let's just enjoy what's left of this great champion's illustrious career!

wy2sl0 12-22-2011 04:31 PM

Are you joking? Your name is obviously Crazy man for a reason.
"One of the things that Federer has improved the most is the forehand. Yep, it's not as strong as Djokovic's, Nadal's of Murray's but it's definately in the league just behind it (with Tsonga and Soderling) . Murray I think beats Federer in the forehand department simply because of the angles he can produce."

Federer has the best forehand in tennis - noone is close. End of discussion.

Maybe you don't understand that he is essentially the only player that, as Nadal has said in his book, can "make winners from nothing".

From a consistency point of view you could say those 3 are better, but not "overall".

Crazy man 12-22-2011 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wy2sl0 (Post 6187548)
Are you joking? Your name is obviously Crazy man for a reason.
"One of the things that Federer has improved the most is the forehand. Yep, it's not as strong as Djokovic's, Nadal's of Murray's but it's definately in the league just behind it (with Tsonga and Soderling) . Murray I think beats Federer in the forehand department simply because of the angles he can produce."

Federer has the best forehand in tennis - noone is close. End of discussion.

Maybe you don't understand that he is essentially the only player that, as Nadal has said in his book, can "make winners from nothing".

From a consistency point of view you could say those 3 are better, but not "overall".



Murray (among others) can play tennis at a level as high, if not, higher than Federer. Federer is getting better every year, n00b! As for the forehand, that can be said with my first statement.

wy2sl0 12-22-2011 04:38 PM

You aren't even making a good argument. Murray has done nothing to prove he can play tennis at the level of Roger Federer.

And please do not draw on examples of the h2h in non-slams. I mean really, are we going to have this conversation?

Straight up, Murray got beat playing at a very high level by Roddick playing at a very high level in 09 Wimbledon. Federer played very average and still beat Roddick.

stringertom 12-22-2011 04:42 PM

As a Fedophile, I will be honest in my disappointment that '11 represented the end of his 8-year run with one or more major titles. Fed was there but Djok raised and called. Yet, there's reason to expect better results in '12. The intensity of the Djokdal rivalry may have taken the wind out of both their sails. Also, the Fed'Cone connection has had another full year to gel. Obviously, '12 is gonna be a huge year to steer direction for the rest of Fed's career. Victory in Victoria would go a long way to establishing that this season is not a swan song campaign. Stay tuned.

Crazy man 12-22-2011 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wy2sl0 (Post 6187554)
You aren't even making a good argument. Murray has done nothing to prove he can play tennis at the level of Roger Federer.

And please do not draw on examples of the h2h in non-slams. I mean really, are we going to have this conversation?

Murray has only played his best in MS finals/500 events. He wasn't playing well, else he would have won US Open 08 and AO 2010.

Crazy man 12-22-2011 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stringertom (Post 6187559)
As a Fedophile, I will be honest in my disappointment that '11 represented the end of his 8-year run with one or more major titles. Fed was there but Djok raised and called. Yet, there's reason to expect better results in '12. The intensity of the Djokdal rivalry may have taken the wind out of both their sails. Also, the Fed'Cone connection has had another full year to gel. Obviously, '12 is gonna be a huge year to steer direction for the rest of Fed's career. Victory in Victoria would go a long way to establishing that this season is not a swan song campaign. Stay tuned.

Get him out of here!

wy2sl0 12-22-2011 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy man (Post 6187560)
Murray has only played his best in MS finals/500 events. He wasn't playing well, else he would have won US Open 08 and AO 2010.

See the problem is, its best of 3. Thats not real tennis. That is exactly why you could win 0 slams and 30 masters events, and someone with 0 masters and 7 slams would still be better.

Fed doesn't give a crap about MS events. Half the time you can see him quitting. Just read what Murray has said after GS events they played - "Federer is a different player in Grand Slams".

Crazy man 12-22-2011 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wy2sl0 (Post 6187566)
See the problem is, its best of 3. Thats not real tennis. That is exactly why you could win 0 slams and 30 masters events, and someone with 0 masters and 7 slams would still be better.

Lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wy2sl0 (Post 6187566)
Fed doesn't give a crap about MS events. Half the time you can see him quitting.

Lol. Federer does care, hence why he shows up and wins a lot of them. Get me a video with Federer actually physically quitting a MS/1000 match?

wy2sl0 12-22-2011 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy man (Post 6187569)
Lol.



Lol. Federer does care, hence why he shows up and wins a lot of them. Get me a video with Federer actually physically quitting a MS/1000 match?

There are tons of examples. 5-1 final set against Tsonga a couple years ago in Montreal. Tsonga won the final set 7-6. Anyone with half a brain can see that he was not trying.

You are arguing for the wrong guy. Djokovic is a much better player than Murray, and Djoko had problems with Fed while in God mode. Ask Andy Murray whos forehand he would rather have - his or Roger's.

djokovicgonzalez2010 12-22-2011 04:54 PM

2011 was more consistent, less brilliance. I actually think he played better this year, was unfortunate to not get to #2 due to draws


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