Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Strings (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Why do people hybrid with gut in the mains (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=408531)

puck1230 01-08-2012 08:03 PM

Why do people hybrid with gut in the mains
 
I've never tried this, and maybe if I did I'd understand better, but I don't understand why people choose to hybrid gut in the mains and poly in the crosses. What is the desired effect of gut in the mains and poly in the crosses that cannot otherwise be achieved with another combination? To me, it just "feels" counterintuitive since you're spending 20-30 dollars on a half set of gut where its primary playing characteristics are likely overshadowed by the choice of string in the mains.

The uses cases that I can think of:

1. Does the poly in the crosses stiffen up the gut? If so, why not use a synthetic that plays a little crisper than gut?
2. Does poly in the crosses provide more "control" than an all-gut string bed? Can the same effect be produced by just increasing the tension of an all-gut string bed? If so, is the poly-gut hybrid an exercise in cost control?
3. Does poly in the crosses somehow provide more spin than an all-gut string bed? If so, why does this happen?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just wondering the reasoning behind the tactic before I plop down 20-30 dollars for a half set of gut to try it.

Background on me: POG Mid with black genesis (52lbs) in the mains and whatever cheap synthetic I have lying around for my crosses (55lbs)

Thanks

Chyeaah 01-08-2012 08:11 PM

Gut in the crosses are a waste because you dont get most of the playability of gut. The poly crosses add more spin and crispen up the gut in the mains. If you use a good synthetic gut cross, since it doesnt have the quality of gut (being soft at high tensions, good tension maintenance) it goes off in a few hours (i tried) but since gut holds its tension really good and if your not a string breaker, they string the mains with gut at 58 or so and string a poly at 54 or so, and when the poly dies they just restring the crosses.

TimothyO 01-09-2012 05:22 AM

Gut in the crosses is a waste...the mains do most of the work.

Gut mains and poly crosses provide lots of spin, feel, and comfort without being overly powerful. A woman who tried my Pure Storm strung with VS/CoFocus declared it was waaay too low powered for her and yet it's strung at low tension compared to most.

mikeler 01-09-2012 05:58 AM

Just to echo the 2 posters above me, gut in the crosses is not worth the minimal improvement. Poly crosses help to tame the power of the gut.

InfCross 01-09-2012 06:22 AM

With gut main and poly crosses u have:

_ Controlled power, since the poly crosses not only "tames" a little the power of gut, it also allows the gut to slide and snap back into place, giving u a lot of spin. Gut main and poly crosses have a low coefficient of friction, which is related with spin production http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...OFreporter.php

_ Gut feel, since ur main string provides most of the feel.

_ Nice value stringbed (Really?) because gut lasts a lot if ur not a string breaker, and u can restring the crosses if u are careful when the poly loses tension http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=399862

jk175d 01-09-2012 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puck1230 (Post 6217128)
I've never tried this, and maybe if I did I'd understand better, but I don't understand why people choose to hybrid gut in the mains and poly in the crosses. What is the desired effect of gut in the mains and poly in the crosses that cannot otherwise be achieved with another combination? To me, it just "feels" counterintuitive since you're spending 20-30 dollars on a half set of gut where its primary playing characteristics are likely overshadowed by the choice of string in the mains.

The uses cases that I can think of:

1. Does the poly in the crosses stiffen up the gut? If so, why not use a synthetic that plays a little crisper than gut?
2. Does poly in the crosses provide more "control" than an all-gut string bed? Can the same effect be produced by just increasing the tension of an all-gut string bed? If so, is the poly-gut hybrid an exercise in cost control?
3. Does poly in the crosses somehow provide more spin than an all-gut string bed? If so, why does this happen?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just wondering the reasoning behind the tactic before I plop down 20-30 dollars for a half set of gut to try it.

Background on me: POG Mid with black genesis (52lbs) in the mains and whatever cheap synthetic I have lying around for my crosses (55lbs)

Thanks

If you are an agressive player with a fast swing, low tension poly is a great choice. You can really take a big cut at the ball with confidence because of the spin/control you get from properly strung poly. So to take that a step further if you then add gut mains to the equation you add more power, more feel, more spin, and more all around fun. All this without sacrificing any control thanks to the low-tension poly crosses. That is it in a nutshell.

If you try it you'll know. My reccomendation: Klip Legend 17g crossed with Solinco Revolution or Outlast 17g. $35 total for two stringjobs. I also recomend 53/45 but YMMV on that. In any event do the poly at least 5lb lower than the gut.

parasailing 01-09-2012 11:23 AM

In addition to what has been stated, gut in the mains offers great tension maintenance allowing me to just cut out the poly crosses in 4 or 7 hours after polys become stiff or dead and retain playability.

puck1230 01-10-2012 08:06 PM

Thanks to everyone for their replies. Looks like I need to give this a go to feel it for myself!

Posture Guy 01-11-2012 04:44 AM

I wondered the same thing as the OP. Over the last few months I demoed several gut mains/poly crosses setups, then tried straight gut. The latter was simply too powerful, I kept hitting balls 2' past the baseline. And the gut seemed to wear faster than it would in a hybrid setup. And I was CONSTANTLY adjusting the strings.

To me, the main benefits are like what's been said above:

- tame the power of gut
- with some poly crosses I get more spin than a full gut job
- less string movement
- seem to get better durability of the gut mains. I assume that's because there's less friction on the mains as they slide on the crosses.

I use Pacific Classic, which is $27 and plays very nicely. So a half set is less than $15. Basically I'm getting a full setup for less than $20 a pop and I get most of the feel of gut but with more control and spin and durability. A lot to like about that.

J_aces 01-23-2012 01:35 AM

I have never used gut before and just did a global/bhbr hybrid. I find less spin and a little too much power. Feel is nice though

2Hare 01-23-2012 02:17 AM

I agree with the posters above. Beside the points that they've already mentioned, there are quite a few reasons why you should use gut/poly:

first of all, there are some research that backs gut(main)/poly hybrid as the highest spin potential setup. And poly/gut has least spin compared to full poly and gut/poly because gut crosses creates high sliding friction especially when it saw.

second, the gut/poly lasts longer than full poly and poly/gut in terms of playability. mains do most of the actions in groundies. gut maintains tension better than any other string. so gut/poly last the longest before it goes dead (you probably would break it before it's dead).

third, Federer and Djokovic use it, so should you!:twisted:

jk175d 01-23-2012 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_aces (Post 6257366)
I have never used gut before and just did a global/bhbr hybrid. I find less spin and a little too much power. Feel is nice though

what tensions for each? and what is your normal tension/string?

(guys, when you talk about strings it's kind of pointless unless you include tensions)

J_aces 01-23-2012 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jk175d (Post 6258135)
what tensions for each? and what is your normal tension/string?

(guys, when you talk about strings it's kind of pointless unless you include tensions)

Strung it at 55/52. Normally use full bhbr at 50/52

Say Chi Sin Lo 01-23-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parasailing (Post 6218214)
In addition to what has been stated, gut in the mains offers great tension maintenance allowing me to just cut out the poly crosses in 4 or 7 hours after polys become stiff or dead and retain playability.

Wait, so you only cut out the poly crosses and re-string the crosses with fresh polys? :confused:

This is my problem with polys crosses:

I used to use a gut mains/poly crosses hybrid for a few months. The poly crosses will die within 4-6hours. The notion of cutting out perfectly good gut after 4-6hours sounded ridiculous to me, nor did I care for leaving/playing with dead polys in my frames. Playing with polys in the crosses is a moo-point to me. Like another poster said, crosses do next to nothing.

Went back to the trusty Head RIP Control and have not messed my setup ever since. Gut mains/HEAD RIP Control crosses.

nalvarado 01-23-2012 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimothyO (Post 6217573)
Gut in the crosses is a waste...the mains do most of the work.

Gut mains and poly crosses provide lots of spin, feel, and comfort without being overly powerful. A woman who tried my Pure Storm strung with VS/CoFocus declared it was waaay too low powered for her and yet it's strung at low tension compared to most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 6217618)
Just to echo the 2 posters above me, gut in the crosses is not worth the minimal improvement. Poly crosses help to tame the power of the gut.

Would you say(in your opinion of course) that a cheap nylon or syngut would be effective with poly mains, as the poly does most of the work, or would a slicker string(such as full poly) be more effective?

Say Chi Sin Lo 01-23-2012 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nalvarado (Post 6259223)
Would you say(in your opinion of course) that a cheap nylon or syngut would be effective with poly mains, as the poly does most of the work, or would a slicker string(such as full poly) be more effective?

I think it depends on what you want to do with your frame. Whatever sensation you're trying to establish on impact, put that string in the cross. It'll get you that "crisper" or "softer" sensation.

mikeler 01-23-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nalvarado (Post 6259223)
Would you say(in your opinion of course) that a cheap nylon or syngut would be effective with poly mains, as the poly does most of the work, or would a slicker string(such as full poly) be more effective?


I've used full poly for a grand total of 4 games and probably won't ever use it again so it is hard to compare. The main string is responsible for most of the feel of the string bed.

jk175d 01-23-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_aces (Post 6259046)
Strung it at 55/52. Normally use full bhbr at 50/52

probably a good tension starting point relative to your usual. If you still have half a set of each to try one more time you might try the poly down around 45-47, imo the lower poly tension will tame the power of the mains better. (works for me).

Also I've heard Global is a bit sub-par. It may be that Gut isn't great in APD's I don't know if I've seen many Babolat users talk about gut.

2Hare 01-23-2012 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo (Post 6259201)
Wait, so you only cut out the poly crosses and re-string the crosses with fresh polys? :confused:

This is my problem with polys crosses:

I used to use a gut mains/poly crosses hybrid for a few months. The poly crosses will die within 4-6hours. The notion of cutting out perfectly good gut after 4-6hours sounded ridiculous to me, nor did I care for leaving/playing with dead polys in my frames. Playing with polys in the crosses is a moo-point to me. Like another poster said, crosses do next to nothing.

Went back to the trusty Head RIP Control and have not messed my setup ever since. Gut mains/HEAD RIP Control crosses.

Have you tried lubricating the strings? I found that the setup goes dead fast, not because the poly is dead. it's mostly because the increase in friction of the mains as it wears. Once lubricated, I think you'll be shocked how new it plays again.

J_aces 01-23-2012 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jk175d (Post 6259730)
probably a good tension starting point relative to your usual. If you still have half a set of each to try one more time you might try the poly down around 45-47, imo the lower poly tension will tame the power of the mains better. (works for me).

Also I've heard Global is a bit sub-par. It may be that Gut isn't great in APD's I don't know if I've seen many Babolat users talk about gut.

That's not true among pros. Tsonga and clijsters use gut in babolat. I have heard global is decent as long as it doesn't break. I might try other half set as cross


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:59 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse