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-   -   tennis is getting soft.. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=409070)

SoCal10s 01-13-2012 05:16 AM

tennis is getting soft..
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...918109858.html

I've always love R.Lansdorp views,, he doesn't sugar coat anything... has anyone seen any of the Florida tennis camps train their 10 and under kids exclusively using these 'soft' tennis balls? so why are there so many on the bandwagon ?

ClarkC 01-13-2012 09:07 AM

Quote:

Last week in Lakewood, Max McKennon, a 9-year-old lefty from Newport Beach, Calif., who roots for Rafael Nadal, played his first tournament with the green ball.

"He came off the court with a sore shoulder, his hand was callused, he has never had to work so hard," said Donna McKennon, Max's mother, after her son lost a two-hour, 45-minute match. "If Max continues to play with those balls, he'll need shoulder surgery."
There's a ringing endorsement of QuickStart/Ten-and-Under-Tennis/whatchamacallit.

gplracer 01-13-2012 09:13 AM

"He came off the court with a sore shoulder, his hand was callused, he has never had to work so hard," said Donna McKennon, Max's mother, after her son lost a two-hour, 45-minute match. "If Max continues to play with those balls, he'll need shoulder surgery."

This person is an idiot.

dbordel 01-13-2012 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gplracer (Post 6227323)
"He came off the court with a sore shoulder, his hand was callused, he has never had to work so hard," said Donna McKennon, Max's mother, after her son lost a two-hour, 45-minute match. "If Max continues to play with those balls, he'll need shoulder surgery."

This person is an idiot.

I thought the same thing. I also though about how many will walk away from reading that statement thinking there is truth to it.

10ismom 01-13-2012 09:56 AM

Guess Max should learn to construct points......not just crush!

Kids get less impact from cushy balls....,not hard balls....common sense!

ClarkC 01-13-2012 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10ismom (Post 6227410)
Guess Max should learn to construct points......not just crush!

Kids get less impact from cushy balls....,not hard balls....common sense!

You also get sore from playing a match for 2 hours and 45 minutes at an early age, I suppose. You also decide that the sport is pretty tedious after an experience like that. We are hearing lots of reports like this from people who have been to the new tournaments.

By the way, is there any evidence that coaches are training 8 year old players on how to construct points in the USA? Is the USTA providing coach training that emphasizes this? Furthermore, should an 8 year old be perfecting strokes and worry about point construction later? How did the great champions do it? How early did they focus on point construction tactics?

HIGH-TECH TENNIS 01-13-2012 11:22 AM

I'm with you, Clark C.

I'm sure there are people out there who are in favor of it...but we haven't met any. To be clear, the greatest pushback seems to come from coaches and parents who resent the MANDATE.

For this and a variety of unpleasant experiences, we're thinking about morphing into HIGH-TECH SPORTS. Would love any thoughts, contacts, etc, but please remember to be kind. THANK YOU for your support!

gplracer 01-13-2012 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkC (Post 6227476)
By the way, is there any evidence that coaches are training 8 year old players on how to construct points in the USA? Is the USTA providing coach training that emphasizes this? Furthermore, should an 8 year old be perfecting strokes and worry about point construction later? How did the great champions do it? How early did they focus on point construction tactics?


I think it is different for all kids. My older son was not ready to construct points or perfect his strokes at 8. That is why we waited until he was 9 to start playing tennis. My younger son was ready to go at 7. Now at 9 he is 5ft tall and 90lbs. Kids do things at different ages. Just because one toddler walks at 9 month and another walks at 12 months it does not make one more likely to be in the Olympics.

10ismom 01-13-2012 01:53 PM

Having to play a 2 hr match would give anyone sore, low or normal pressure balls. Many 10u kids played up in 12U matches last year tournaments using yellow balls were 2 hour matches too. Cushy ball hitting 2 hr still would be less impact than real ball.
I'd like to remain unidentifiable on this site but I will share my experience with you. My youngest child was in a pilot program with several other kids and their coach used QS and progressive balls before USTA started recommending it for 10 and under. Yes, the coach taught them strokes, and strategies even when they were 8 or 9. My kid learned groundstrokes, volley, lob, slices, dropshots using QS balls. In fact the 2 colored balls help you see your spinning balls better, easier to learn topspin. He taught angle shots, pushing, chip and charge etc to the group. My youngest child was taught with yellow balls before QS. IMO young kids can learn strokes, ball control, strategies faster using QS balls.
My comment on "Max" implied that if he would have more control, placement, manipulating spins, points could be shorter. My child played some QS tourns then went to regular ball tourns. That was a few yrs ago before mandatory. Transition was a little hard but managable. Kids from the group now play at state, sectional and national tourns and doing fine. Of course, I cannot comment on the Belgians, Henin, Cleijster's experience.
QS is not that bad but I don't know that mandatory with no options except playing up is right either. If QS was designed to help kid learn technique, tactics faster with less impact of regular balls then..... the usta might push some younger kids to play up too soon ( more impact on their bodies to rally against 14 U), because there is no regular ball tourn for U12s now.

Soianka 01-13-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10ismom (Post 6227876)
Having to play a 2 hr match would give anyone sore, low or normal pressure balls.

Yes, this is true. That's a reeaallly long match for a 9 year old.

Maybe the scoring needs to be adjusted for the younger kids to avoid such long matches.

Quote:

My youngest child was in a pilot program with several other kids and their coach used QS and progressive balls before USTA started recommending it for 10 and under. Yes, the coach taught them strokes, and strategies even when they were 8 or 9. My kid learned groundstrokes, volley, lob, slices, dropshots using QS balls. In fact the 2 colored balls help you see your spinning balls better, easier to learn topspin. He taught angle shots, pushing, chip and charge etc to the group. My youngest child was taught with yellow balls before QS. IMO young kids can learn strokes, ball control, strategies faster using QS balls.
There probably needs to be some coach training involved with the mandatory ball switch so all kids can benefit from the above type of training.

Dadof10s 01-13-2012 04:33 PM

From what I see I understand where that lady is coming from on the shoulder issues. When I see the kids play with the soft balls they have to swing like maniacs and even when they construct points the courts are small and the rallies go on forever. So yes the impact may be less than the normal balls softer balls. So she may have a point if the kids are swinging as hard as they can for 3 hours that may not be good for little kids shoulders and may be worse than swinging slower with yellow balls. I think a sports doctor would need to look at it and see what they think. 10ismom is talking about practices and yes kids can learn different strokes with the slower balls but when you put them into a match they are going to rely on just hitting back and forth. It is easy to teach an 8 year old all those volleys and angles and stuff in practice but get in a match on a small quickstart court and the rallies last forever no matter what the coach showed them in practice.

tennis5 01-13-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadof10s (Post 6228098)
From what I see I understand where that lady is coming from on the shoulder issues. When I see the kids play with the soft balls they have to swing like maniacs and even when they construct points the courts are small and the rallies go on forever. So yes the impact may be less than the normal balls softer balls. So she may have a point if the kids are swinging as hard as they can for 3 hours that may not be good for little kids shoulders and may be worse than swinging slower with yellow balls. I think a sports doctor would need to look at it and see what they think.

I have seen little kids rally for hours in a 10 and under match with moonballs.

Is it bad on a little one's body to have that kind of long match. Yes.

Maybe, the little kids shouldn't be playing for that long period.

Dadof10s 01-13-2012 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis5 (Post 6228111)
I have seen little kids rally for hours in a 10 and under match with moonballs.

Is it bad on a little one's body to have that kind of long match. Yes.

Maybe, the little kids shouldn't be playing for that long period.

I am not talking moonball rallies which can last very long and swings I am talking about these quickstart kids swinging their racquets very hard for hours which may be bad for their arms, we do not know. Moonball rallies are hit with slow swings. Go take a tennis racquet and swing at a yellow ball slow to medium speed for 100 swings. Then swing at a soft ball as hard as you possibly can for 100 swings. Then tell me which bothers your arm more? Swinging your arm at air with a racquet as hard as you can will bother your shoulder more than tapping a yellow tennis ball slowly.

tennis5 01-13-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadof10s (Post 6228120)
I am not talking moonball rallies which can last very long and swings I am talking about these quickstart kids swinging their racquets very hard for hours which may be bad for their arms, we do not know. Moonball rallies are hit with slow swings. Go take a tennis racquet and swing at a yellow ball slow to medium speed for 100 swings. Then swing at a soft ball as hard as you possibly can for 100 swings. Then tell me which bothers your arm more? Swinging your arm at air with a racquet as hard as you can will bother your shoulder more than tapping a yellow tennis ball slowly.

Good point.

SoCal10s 01-13-2012 07:52 PM

has anyone here heard of ''soft tennis"" it's somewhat popular in asia .. uses a rubber soft tennis ball with no fuzz.,different racket(a bit like a squash racket) but played on a regular size tennis court...

NLBwell 01-13-2012 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkC (Post 6227476)
How did the great champions do it?

Most of them hit the backboard for hour after hour when they were kids.

Pro_Tour_630 01-14-2012 01:45 AM

I think I can go on record as having a 9 year old that has been playing green ball the longest in the country in terms of USTA tournaments. And not once did he have arm nor shoulder issues.

The green ball matches are one set to 6 games no ad. I have never seen a match go over one hour, 45 minutes tops at most, most are under 25 minutes. SO if a kid has three matches in one tournament the total amount played is less than 1.5 hours with a rest period of 15 minutes between sets. He has NEVER developed callouses in his hand in over 1.5 years on green.

He is now on yellow and his strokes have improved due to the green ball experience. We have 1.5 years of experience on green alone and it has made him into a better player not WORSE.

Soianka 01-14-2012 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Tour_630 (Post 6228692)
I think I can go on record as having a 9 year old that has been playing green ball the longest in the country in terms of USTA tournaments. And not once did he have arm nor shoulder issues.

The green ball matches are one set to 6 games no ad. I have never seen a match go over one hour, 45 minutes tops at most, most are under 25 minutes. SO if a kid has three matches in one tournament the total amount played is less than 1.5 hours with a rest period of 15 minutes between sets. He has NEVER developed callouses in his hand in over 1.5 years on green.

He is now on yellow and his strokes have improved due to the green ball experience. We have 1.5 years of experience on green alone and it has made him into a better player not WORSE.

Thanks for the info. Max's mom's story sounded a little suspect.

Number1Coach 01-14-2012 08:35 AM

"I personally believe this is about making more profit, not making better players," he said. "In Serbia, nobody is playing tennis just because they love to play tennis. It's not suitable for our mentality. We're competitive, you don't want to have fun, you want to have success. If you don't have success in four years, you will stop."

This is a quote from this article ,, I have heard another poster say that if his player wants to have fun he can go to Disneyland or the beach and he teaches the tennis court is all business.

I would like to point out that TCF says the Spanish and Serbs are the best now and look at their thinking it's the same as Mr.B's.

Pro_Tour_630 01-14-2012 09:13 AM

The french and argentinians are best at producing champions, let us look at what they are doing as well.


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