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BTURNER 03-08-2012 05:12 PM

Chris & Hana
 
Two matches showcased on You-tube
the US Open semi of 85. Often when Evert looses a semi, you can sense she is little flat or tight. This time she played well but Hana brought her 'A' game and mindset. There just weren't periodic lapses Chris was used to exploiting between the brilliant play. Chris mentioned Hana's serving as especially deceptive and smart after this match. Of Course Mandlikova beat Martina to win her only Open title.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYS3OlWYBR0

Semi in Key Biscayne in 87. You may remember this event as the one that starred Steffi, who routined Martina and Evert to win. The last of three people to beat both women in the same tournement when they were the top two players in the world. Austin at the Open was the first. The event mentioned earlier in my post was the second. The real celebrity in this match was the Florida winds which made for an error prone first set. BJK says here that Evert plays better in wind and reads it better than anyone. Lobs, once they started landing in, never stopped and Hana was crushed 6-0 in the second. both matches are in 2 parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi4m9rrkSQw

BTURNER 08-02-2012 12:52 PM

Here is a third. The complete one hour 40 minute '86 Wimbledon semifinal . this may be one of their cleaner matches. There was no stats offered whatsoever, but my impression is of a match with more winners than errors by both. After Evert looses the first, she gains a 5- 2 lead in the second and looses 15 straight points, or more accurately Hana blazes winners all over the place with only two loose points points by Chris to aide her.

There are some technical problems with the video. At first the court is a pretty red color which is however unbecoming on English grass. There is also a tracking disparity which makes you choose between muting Maskell and Ann Jones or tolerating the discrepancy. Its still worth it. Who knows when it will be taen down They both played really well with chris volleying as well and frequently as I have seen. All to no avail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TrmqFL2_8w

jrepac 08-02-2012 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTURNER (Post 6772387)
Here is a third. The complete one hour 40 minute '86 Wimbledon semifinal . this may be one of their cleaner matches. There was no stats offered whatsoever, but my impression is of a match with more winners than errors by both. After Evert looses the first, she gains a 5- 2 lead in the second and looses 15 straight points, or more accurately Hana blazes winners all over the place with only two loose points points by Chris to aide her.

There are some technical problems with the video. At first the court is a pretty red color which is however unbecoming on English grass. There is also a tracking disparity which makes you choose between muting Maskell and Ann Jones or tolerating the discrepancy. Its still worth it. Who knows when it will be taen down They both played really well with chris volleying as well and frequently as I have seen. All to no avail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TrmqFL2_8w

It was really disappointing to see Chris lose that match....still, when Hana was "on" she was amazing and could make even Martina look bad. She was the McEnroe of the ladies....

suwanee4712 08-03-2012 07:34 AM

The 1986 Wimbledon match is the type of match frequently played between the two. On some days Chris wins that match 6-2 6-2. On others like this day Hana is concentrating well enough to hang in there mentally until she can get into the match. That's just a reminder of how Hana always walked a very fine line in her tennis. As with the 1986 French quarter with Steffi, Hana seemed out of it at times but was only missing by a little. When her shots started going in, Hana controlled the outcome.

The 15 point streak by Hana was won almost entirely on aces, volley winners, and cold winners from the baseline. This demoralized Chris who had to fight through a grueling draw: Jordan to Sukova to Mandlikova. This, after having a similar draw at the French a few weeks earlier: Sabatini to Bassett to Mandlikova to Martina. Rotten draws for Chris but she fought through a lot of matches until she ran out of steam. Great effort by Chris.

Spectacular win by Hana whose game was like a flying trapeze artist without a net. Shakespearean almost - great drama, sometimes a tragedy as was the case in the final where she played well enough to win but didn't. It cost her a spot in the upper realm of tennis royalty.

kiki 08-03-2012 07:34 AM

Hana had a first big win over Evert in the 1981 FO.

BTURNER 08-03-2012 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suwanee4712 (Post 6775669)
The 1986 Wimbledon match is the type of match frequently played between the two. On some days Chris wins that match 6-2 6-2. On others like this day Hana is concentrating well enough to hang in there mentally until she can get into the match. That's just a reminder of how Hana always walked a very fine line in her tennis. As with the 1986 French quarter with Steffi, Hana seemed out of it at times but was only missing by a little. When her shots started going in, Hana controlled the outcome.

The 15 point streak by Hana was won almost entirely on aces, volley winners, and cold winners from the baseline. This demoralized Chris who had to fight through a grueling draw: Jordan to Sukova to Mandlikova. This, after having a similar draw at the French a few weeks earlier: Sabatini to Bassett to Mandlikova to Martina. Rotten draws for Chris but she fought through a lot of matches until she ran out of steam. Great effort by Chris.

Spectacular win by Hana whose game was like a flying trapeze artist without a net. Shakespearean almost - great drama, sometimes a tragedy as was the case in the final where she played well enough to win but didn't. It cost her a spot in the upper realm of tennis royalty.

Evert at this stage, had only missed one semi-final appointment in a major in her career (83' wimbledon). What amazes me, is that even with those kinds of draws on the grass of Australia and Wimbledon, she never did have a second 'oops' on a grass major.

Hana played the cleanest tennis I have seen from her in this match. Evert makes anyone hit a lot of balls but Hana was so mentally tough throughout. She was hitting those groundies and approaches really hard and deep.

Tactically, I think Evert erred in not getting her lob grooved early enough as she often did with Martina on grass, anticipating a third set. Otherwise, I can''t find fault with Evert's play.

kiki 08-03-2012 01:47 PM

No win Hana ever scored over Chris can overshadow the 1981 landslide at Wimbledon.I was supporting Hana at the same time I was admiring Evertīs nerve and will to win.And her grace.

BTURNER 08-03-2012 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6777723)
No win Hana ever scored over Chris can overshadow the 1981 landslide at Wimbledon.I was supporting Hana at the same time I was admiring Evertīs nerve and will to win.And her grace.


Evert came out unusually determined having gone so long without winning Wimbledon. As for Hana, she was a wreck of errors in that one. She just wasn't the same player who got to the final. Evert kept the ball in play and passed well and Hana just... didn't.

kiki 08-04-2012 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTURNER (Post 6778479)
Evert came out unusually determined having gone so long without winning Wimbledon. As for Hana, she was a wreck of errors in that one. She just wasn't the same player who got to the final. Evert kept the ball in play and passed well and Hana just... didn't.

A month before, Hana had defeated Chris at the FO semis.Evert didnīt want to go through this again.Mind you, she was still aware of the 1979-1980 period, when Tracy Austin led her in their H2H.

PDJ 10-24-2012 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6779117)
A month before, Hana had defeated Chris at the FO semis.Evert didnīt want to go through this again.Mind you, she was still aware of the 1979-1980 period, when Tracy Austin led her in their H2H.

1981 wimbledon final: Virginia Wade commentating for the BBC said that the worse thing you could do was to beat evert as mandlikova had at the French recently, because she just came back stronger the next time. I guess wade wd know!

BTURNER 10-24-2012 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDJ (Post 6972248)
1981 wimbledon final: Virginia Wade commentating for the BBC said that the worse thing you could do was to beat evert as mandlikova had at the French recently, because she just came back stronger the next time. I guess wade wd know!

She sure should, after Martina, she has by far the most professional match experience playing Evert. She played her 46 times ( including Wightman and fed cup). Wade lost 40 of them for one of the worst records, percentage wise, I can find. Yes there are many many people who never beat Chris, but they were lower ranked and did not play her 46 times. Evert won the first 6 sets they ever played before '73 before Wade beat her in '73. directly thereafter, Virginia gave her a spanking in at Nottingham 6-1, 6-2. Evert lost one set in the next 9 matches. Of course there is the one famous loss in the Wimbledon semis of '77. The Floridian followed that up with 18 consecutive until Virginia retired. Wade must have truly dreaded seeing her in her draw.

kiki 10-24-2012 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTURNER (Post 6973729)
She sure should, after Martina, she has by far the most professional match experience playing Evert. She played her 46 times ( including Wightman and fed cup). Wade lost 40 of them for one of the worst records, percentage wise, I can find. Yes there are many many people who never beat Chris, but they were lower ranked and did not play her 46 times. Evert won the first 6 sets they ever played before '73 before Wade beat her in '73. directly thereafter, Virginia gave her a spanking in at Nottingham 6-1, 6-2. Evert lost one set in the next 9 matches. Of course there is the one famous loss in the Wimbledon semis of '77. The Floridian followed that up with 18 consecutive until Virginia retired. Wade must have truly dreaded seeing her in her draw.

How comes, then, that other S&V like Navratilova,King,Court even Goolagong did some S&V, could beat Chris on more consistent basis than Ginny?

NadalAgassi 10-24-2012 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6973740)
How comes, then, that other S&V like Navratilova,King,Court even Goolagong did some S&V, could beat Chris on more consistent basis than Ginny?

Wade was not nearly as good a player as any of Court, King, Navratilova, Goolagong, or Evert. All 5 of those own her in brutally one sided head to heads. She was the best of the second tier of her time, but a big level below the big girls of her era.

Navratilova- better serve, better volleys, better overhead, better groundstrokes, better athleticsm, better everything than Wade.

Evert- her ground game, return, and court sense were much superior to anything Wade had in her arsenal.

King- better volleys, better serve, and much craftier and mentally tougher than Wade. Wade had a better forehand than King though.

Court- better serve, better overhead, and much better ground game and approach shots than Wade, and more physically imposing too.

Goolagong- much better mover, much better ground game, much more fluid overall player, more versatile, and better overall shotmaker than Wade.

She did well to win 3 majors as she did. She capatilized on a bit on great timing.

1968 U.S Open- Most impressive slam win ever. Beat Ann Jones and Billie Jean King to win it. Capatilized on Court's major slump and just working her way back on tour after a long layoff, as Court owned Wade even worse than King did.

1972 Australian Open- Other than Goolagong none of the big guns even played.

1977 Wimbledon- Court retired, King who was 4-0 vs Wade this year taken out by Evert before she played Wade, Goolagong who was Wade's biggest nemisis at Wimbledon taking her out their year after year not playing. Came up with one really big win over Evert, and lucked out Stove helped her out by upsetting Navratilova and Barker so she met Stove in the final which Stove choked away after being in position to win.

kiki 10-24-2012 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6973758)
Wade was not nearly as good a player as any of Court, King, Navratilova, Goolagong, or Evert. All 5 of those own her in brutally one sided head to heads. She was the best of the second tier of her time, but a big level below the big girls of her era.

Navratilova- better serve, better volleys, better overhead, better groundstrokes, better athleticsm, better everything than Wade.

Evert- her ground game, return, and court sense were much superior to anything Wade had in her arsenal.

King- better volleys, better serve, and much craftier and mentally tougher than Wade. Wade had a better forehand than King though.

Court- better serve, better overhead, and much better ground game and approach shots than Wade, and more physically imposing too.

Goolagong- much better mover, much better ground game, much more fluid overall player, more versatile, and better overall shotmaker than Wade.

She did well to win 3 majors as she did. She capatilized on a bit on great timing.

1968 U.S Open- Most impressive slam win ever. Beat Ann Jones and Billie Jean King to win it. Capatilized on Court's major slump and just working her way back on tour after a long layoff, as Court owned Wade even worse than King did.

1972 Australian Open- Other than Goolagong none of the big guns even played.

1977 Wimbledon- Court retired, King who was 4-0 vs Wade this year taken out by Evert before she played Wade, Goolagong who was Wade's biggest nemisis at Wimbledon taking her out their year after year not playing. Came up with one really big win over Evert, and lucked out Stove helped her out by upsetting Navratilova and Barker so she met Stove in the final which Stove choked away after being in position to win.

t
What is the head to head betweem Wade and Barker?

NadalAgassi 10-24-2012 10:17 PM

Wade leads Barker 9-6 in head to head I believe. Barker had won all 3 of her meetings with Wade in 1977 going into Wimbledon, and Wade said she was relieved when Stove took out Barker in the 2nd semifinal that year. What a blown opportunity for Barker. Navratilova and Evert both being taken out for her, and a great head to head with Wade on the year. She would never have another chance like that again.

PDJ 10-24-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTURNER (Post 6973729)
She sure should, after Martina, she has by far the most professional match experience playing Evert. She played her 46 times ( including Wightman and fed cup). Wade lost 40 of them for one of the worst records, percentage wise, I can find. Yes there are many many people who never beat Chris, but they were lower ranked and did not play her 46 times. Evert won the first 6 sets they ever played before '73 before Wade beat her in '73. directly thereafter, Virginia gave her a spanking in at Nottingham 6-1, 6-2. Evert lost one set in the next 9 matches. Of course there is the one famous loss in the Wimbledon semis of '77. The Floridian followed that up with 18 consecutive until Virginia retired. Wade must have truly dreaded seeing her in her draw.

That is a poor record, however, I for one am very grateful to Wade for winning Wimbledon as I probably would have taken an interest in tennis many years later. I recall vividly, at a very young age, what that victory meant to my country. Virginia Wade, Wimbledon Champion and that can never be taken away from her. And good on her.

kiki 10-25-2012 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6973769)
Wade leads Barker 9-6 in head to head I believe. Barker had won all 3 of her meetings with Wade in 1977 going into Wimbledon, and Wade said she was relieved when Stove took out Barker in the 2nd semifinal that year. What a blown opportunity for Barker. Navratilova and Evert both being taken out for her, and a great head to head with Wade on the year. She would never have another chance like that again.

And what a lost opportunity for England too! I wonder when was last time 2 brits played in a major final, men or women or in the middle of both!

kiki 10-25-2012 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDJ (Post 6973786)
That is a poor record, however, I for one am very grateful to Wade for winning Wimbledon as I probably would have taken an interest in tennis many years later. I recall vividly, at a very young age, what that victory meant to my country. Virginia Wade, Wimbledon Champion and that can never be taken away from her. And good on her.

...and on centennial Wimbly !!!!

kiki 10-25-2012 04:04 AM

I thought Kodes was the most underrated champion on TT but Wade is just the same

PDJ 10-25-2012 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6973941)
And what a lost opportunity for England too! I wonder when was last time 2 brits played in a major final, men or women or in the middle of both!

That's an interesting question! With the men I imagine it might be Perry/bunny austin? With the women, possibly the Mortimer/trueman/jones/wade eras. But I shall have fun looking it up! Cheers


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