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-   -   Raul Ramirez (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=416415)

jean pierre 03-10-2012 05:29 AM

Raul Ramirez
 
Ramirez was a great double player, but also a great single player, even if he didn't win a Grand Slam. Very elegant player :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ6do...eature=related

kiki 03-10-2012 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre (Post 6380421)
Ramirez was a great double player, but also a great single player, even if he didn't win a Grand Slam. Very elegant player :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ6do...eature=related

Boy, you touched my heart.I always had a flaw for Raul, one of the best players in the 70īs.He won a lot in doubles with the also extremely elegant Brian Gottfried and was a top 6-8 ranked singles player from 1974 to 1978.beat all the great players of his generation, including Borg ( trashed him 6-1,6-0),Connors,Newcombe,Nastase,Panatta,Ashe,Orantes.. .i saw him play a few times, was fast, good technique, a very agressive top spin forehand, great volley, solid sliced BH.he was very consistent on any surface, he reached semifonals at Paris ( and Won Rome) on clay, reached semifinals at the Melbourne Masters and Wimbly on grass, played the QF of the US Open on hard, he reminds me a bit of Gerulatis...fast, good technique, great performance on any surface, maybe lacked a bit of spur and a winning shot.

pc1 03-10-2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6380916)
Boy, you touched my heart.I always had a flaw for Raul, one of the best players in the 70īs.He won a lot in doubles with the also extremely elegant Brian Gottfried and was a top 6-8 ranked singles player from 1974 to 1978.beat all the great players of his generation, including Borg ( trashed him 6-1,6-0),Connors,Newcombe,Nastase,Panatta,Ashe,Orantes.. .i saw him play a few times, was fast, good technique, a very agressive top spin forehand, great volley, solid sliced BH.he was very consistent on any surface, he reached semifonals at Paris ( and Won Rome) on clay, reached semifinals at the Melbourne Masters and Wimbly on grass, played the QF of the US Open on hard, he reminds me a bit of Gerulatis...fast, good technique, great performance on any surface, maybe lacked a bit of spur and a winning shot.

I liked him a lot too. Surprising to me that people don't think of him that much. He also was instrumental in defeating the United States in Davis Cup. I think he beat Stan Smith and Roscoe Tanner if I'm not mistaken. And I think it was on a hard court.

Actually as Kiki mentions he was very fast. Haven't seen videos of him in years but I think his footwork was very good if I recall correctly.

I think he won the Italian Open one year.

urban 03-10-2012 10:40 AM

I think, he beat Connors and the USA once in a deciding match in DC, maybe 1976. Silky player, a bit like Amritray.

kiki 03-10-2012 10:52 AM

He was called Ramrod among peers.he beat Connors at a DC match, in 1975 I guess.He also defeated Manuel Orantes in straigh sets at Rome, few months before Manolo beat Connors at Forest Hills in order to win the US Open title.

Mustard 03-10-2012 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urban (Post 6381046)
I think, he beat Connors and the USA once in a deciding match in DC, maybe 1976.

In December 1975 on the Mexico City clay-courts, so red clay. Ramirez won 2-6, 6-3, 6-3, 6-4 to clinch the tie for Mexico. This was 1 of just 3 Davis Cup ties Connors played in outside of the only year he played Davis Cup full-time (1984).

Limpinhitter 03-10-2012 12:42 PM

I saw a great match at the Washington Star (aka Legg Mason), on clay, between Ramirez and Billy Martin in Martin's first year on the pro tour. Martin, a grinder with no weapons, dug out a very tough win over Ramirez.

chrischris 03-10-2012 12:55 PM

Wasnt Billy Martin supposed to becoem a huge star ? My dad was a fan of his and i think he always thought he would make it. What happened to him ?

Limpinhitter 03-10-2012 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrischris (Post 6381281)
Wasnt Billy Martin supposed to becoem a huge star ? My dad was a fan of his and i think he always thought he would make it. What happened to him ?

Billy Martin was the top junior in the boys 16's and 18's. After that, my understanding is that he went to UCLA for 4 years and won the NCAA title in his last two years. Playing 4 years of college tennis generally means that he wasn't ready for the pro tour. He was a very steady, tenacious player that could win matches on clay. But, his serve was a bit soft and he had no real weapons.

PS: Just did a Google search. Billy Martin has been the head coach at UCLA for 19 years. Although he attended UCLA for 3 years, he only played for 1 year as a freshman and won the NCAA singles title that year. Oddly, when I saw him play Raul Ramirez, it was 1974, before he started playing at UCLA. He must have been playing as an amateur in that event. I also saw him play in the Jr. Orange Bowl tournament in 1973. If I recall correctly, he beat Butch Walts in the final.

http://www.uclabruins.com/sports/m-t...n_billy00.html

chrischris 03-10-2012 01:05 PM

Is it correct that Borg liked to practise with him??

Tshooter 03-10-2012 02:36 PM

"Wasnt Billy Martin supposed to becoem a huge star ?"

He was highly touted. I think at the time he was the most successful college player ever ? I think Scott Davis may have eclipsed him some years later.

I saw him beat Harold Solomon in straights at the USO in '76. That was on clay (har tru). Solomon was a top player and among the best clay court players in the world. (I looked it up and "Solly" made it to the finals of The French that year losing to Pannata.).

What happened ? Well it's not that uncommon then or now that a strong junior career (or college) doesn't translate to the pro game.

Limpinhitter 03-10-2012 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tshooter (Post 6381427)
"Wasnt Billy Martin supposed to becoem a huge star ?"

He was highly touted. I think at the time he was the most successful college player ever ? I think Scott Davis may have eclipsed him some years later.

I saw him beat Harold Solomon in straights at the USO in '76. That was on clay (har tru). Solomon was a top player and among the best clay court players in the world. (I looked it up and "Solly" made it to the finals of The French that year losing to Pannata.).

What happened ? Well it's not that uncommon then or now that a strong junior career (or college) doesn't translate to the pro game.

No weapons, mediocre serve!

robow7 03-10-2012 06:49 PM

Billy Martin won the Illinois State High School Tournament in 71 as a freshman. Also while at a young age he gave Arthur Ashe all he could ask for in an exhibition in Chicago. Word was that for Billy it became a mental thing and lack of confidence, not a lack of physical tools. (Think Donald Young today)

Limpinhitter 03-10-2012 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robow7 (Post 6381924)
Billy Martin won the Illinois State High School Tournament in 71 as a freshman. Also while at a young age he gave Arthur Ashe all he could ask for in an exhibition in Chicago. Word was that for Billy it became a mental thing and lack of confidence, not a lack of physical tools. (Think Donald Young today)

Bill Martin was one of the mentally toughest players you'd ever see. If he weren't mentally tough, he wouldn't have been one of the greatest juniors of all time. He just had no weapons and a "point starter" serve. When he beat Raul Ramirez, it was on blood and guts.

kiki 03-10-2012 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter (Post 6381262)
I saw a great match at the Washington Star (aka Legg Mason), on clay, between Ramirez and Billy Martin in Martin's first year on the pro tour. Martin, a grinder with no weapons, dug out a very tough win over Ramirez.

Billy Martin, the great non accomplished " white hope" of US tennis, wasnīt he? still, pulledo out Vilas in the Centennial Wimbledon and, all of a sudden, everybody believed in him again.

I remember Martin got to the semis of Washington where heīd lose to Solomon or Vilas, right?

kiki 03-10-2012 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tshooter (Post 6381427)
"Wasnt Billy Martin supposed to becoem a huge star ?"

He was highly touted. I think at the time he was the most successful college player ever ? I think Scott Davis may have eclipsed him some years later.

I saw him beat Harold Solomon in straights at the USO in '76. That was on clay (har tru). Solomon was a top player and among the best clay court players in the world. (I looked it up and "Solly" made it to the finals of The French that year losing to Pannata.).

What happened ? Well it's not that uncommon then or now that a strong junior career (or college) doesn't translate to the pro game.

Same for Chris Lewis, who lost the wimbledon junior title to Borg in 1973...and 10 years later, lost the seniors title to Mc Enroe..but in the middle, nothing absolutley...amazing.This guy seems to have played just 2 events in his life, and all of them in the same venue ( the greatest venue )

Tshooter 03-11-2012 01:47 AM

"He just had no weapons and a "point starter" serve."

Could just as easily describe Solomon's game.

kiki 04-06-2012 01:16 AM

Coming back to topic, Ramirez added variety and quality to a very fluid and competitive top 10.I think he played college tennis for a Los Angeles College, but I could be wrong.I donīt know where did he and Gottfried started developing their friendship.They were one of the top doubles teams for most of the 70īs and their last showh together was 1979 Wimbledon, when they were beaten in 4 sets in the final by Mc Enroe and Fleming.

jean pierre 04-06-2012 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6382238)
Billy Martin, the great non accomplished " white hope" of US tennis, wasnīt he? still, pulledo out Vilas in the Centennial Wimbledon and, all of a sudden, everybody believed in him again.

I remember Martin got to the semis of Washington where heīd lose to Solomon or Vilas, right?

I think in Franch Open 1978, Billy Martin leads 4/1 40/30 in the fifth set against Vilas, and lost.

kiki 04-06-2012 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre (Post 6449475)
I think in Franch Open 1978, Billy Martin leads 4/1 40/30 in the fifth set against Vilas, and lost.

Ramirez lost to Borg at RG 1978 QF.Vilas had big trouble with Gildemeister (as usual ) in the qf.He had beaten Ashe in the last 16 round and was on the ege of losing to Hans after a torrid 5 setter.


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