Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Tennis Tips/Instruction (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   Thoughts on height over the net (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=416683)

Buddy 03-12-2012 05:51 PM

Thoughts on height over the net
 
I'm a 4.0 USTA dubs player. When I stroke forehands or serves for example, I try to hit hard without reference to the ball's flight clearance over the net. I think it is too much focus on hitting hard and being satisfied that the ball is in (depth and direction aside).
I think it was Vic Braden that would have people hit through actual windows above the net.
Does anyone focus on height over the net and if so, how does one train/practice both mentally and physically without aids.

LeeD 03-12-2012 06:00 PM

Everyone uses different reference points. Some use height, some distance. And for which shot?
Serves..first low, second high net clearance.
Forehands..groundies high, passing shots and forcing attempts low.
Heavy topspin hitters high, flat hitters low.

5263 03-12-2012 06:01 PM

I focus on generous net clearance thru a window above a section
of net as priority 1, with 1a being strong spin to bring it down as
quick as I can. Because I am coming thru or hitting with good power,
I don't have to concern myself with it being short. Just focus on a
nice line of shot thru the window and excellent Ts to bring it down
quickly. Depth will take care of itself if I'm hitting it well.

Buddy 03-12-2012 07:20 PM

5263
 
Any thoughts on how you can visualize a window. I think I can imagine if it is directly above the net, but I have problems thinking about one suspended in the air above the net -- does it run the length of the net, half court, quadrants, etc?

LeeD 03-12-2012 07:30 PM

Now you're overthinking.....
Keep it 3' above the net, higher if you loop your groundies.
When netmen are stationed, go lower.
Sharp angles, go lower
Now if you hit weak, imagine the line suspended 6' above the ground.

5263 03-12-2012 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy (Post 6386673)
Any thoughts on how you can visualize a window. I think I can imagine if it is directly above the net, but I have problems thinking about one suspended in the air above the net -- does it run the length of the net, half court, quadrants, etc?

Maybe due to using windows formed with pipes or hanging squares in spots, I really
tend to visualize them easily.

I use 5 main windows that are about 3x3ft square and hanging about 2ft above the net.
One is right over the center strap for cross ct shot, and then one on each side of that
one. These 2 are for when I rec a ball near center, but target out to targets on the wings.
The last 2 windows are near the lines for hitting down the lines shots.

You can practice by making a 3x3 target on sticks and moving it around. We made one with netting that would catch the balls.
We used to have an indoor half court where the net was near the wall with square ads that made excellent targets. Ball would hit the hanging tarp and feed back into the ball machine.

5263 03-12-2012 07:35 PM

Lee's suggestion of a rope or cord above the net is good too.
and it's better for 2 people hitting and keeping a rally.

Kevo 03-13-2012 01:07 PM

For a dubs player, a ton of height over the net is not good unless it's lob height. I say aim for shoelaces unless you are in a cross court rally as the server or returner. Then you're mainly concerned with angles and looking for a way in.

My net clearance in singles play is several feet over the net or more unless I'm looking to force something or win the point. In dubs it's probably 1 to 2 feet or less.

LeeD 03-13-2012 01:13 PM

Personally, in higher level doubles, I don't concern myself with aiming for a player's feet. Instead, I go for the best shot I can make, low over the net, and allow it's exact landing position to play itself out. To me, a low net clearing ball that would have landed at short NML is just as good, or better, than a net skimmer that lands just inside the service line. A half volley is not easier or harder than a low volley.

BU-Tennis 03-14-2012 11:21 AM

For me, my shots tend to go about 1 foot over the net...maybe. I play very flat, especially when I can step into the court. I do possess more rally type balls with the ball going about 2-3 feet over the net.

I really do not think visualizing height over the net is very important. We can of course use this as a determining factor to see how much spin we're getting, and stringing a cord a few feet above the net during practice will give us instant feedback on whether or not our strokes are getting good clearance.

sureshs 03-14-2012 11:30 AM

I was thinking of this thread when playing yesterday, and I realized that I don't think about height at all! It just happens by instinct. I only hit into the net when I am out of position and scrambling, and the shot becomes weak and dies. Or when I am nearly blinded when moving forward and don't know what I am doing. For regular groundies, I try to keep it deep and that dictates a height automatically.

goran_ace 03-14-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 6386722)
Lee's suggestion of a rope or cord above the net is good too.
and it's better for 2 people hitting and keeping a rally.

Yes, I've seen variations on this used in lessons before, including by my own coach. String a rope across the court. Rally shots from behind the baseline were supposed to be over the rope and when attacking from inside the baseline hit under the rope. Otherwise I've seen coaches bring portable volleyball nets onto the court and have students rally baseline to baseline over it.

Limpinhitter 03-14-2012 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy (Post 6386411)
I'm a 4.0 USTA dubs player. When I stroke forehands or serves for example, I try to hit hard without reference to the ball's flight clearance over the net. I think it is too much focus on hitting hard and being satisfied that the ball is in (depth and direction aside).
I think it was Vic Braden that would have people hit through actual windows above the net.
Does anyone focus on height over the net and if so, how does one train/practice both mentally and physically without aids.

According to Braden, the pros hit much higher over the net than most observers realize. To my recollection, Braden said that Connors (who hit very hard, flat, penetrating groundies), hit 4-5 feet over the net, and Borg who hit heavy, looping, topspin groundies), hit 8-10 over the net.

Having said that, IMO, targeting height over the net is the only way to effectively hit the depth you are trying to achieve.

Orion3 03-14-2012 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter (Post 6391750)
According to Braden, the pros hit much higher over the net than most observers realize. To my recollection, Braden said that Connors (who hit very hard, flat, penetrating groundies), hit 4-5 feet over the net, and Borg who hit heavy, looping, topspin groundies), hit 8-10 over the net.

Having said that, IMO, targeting height over the net is the only way to effectively hit the depth you are trying to achieve.

I saw Borg play close up, once - he did hit it quite high during rallies, but not 8-10 feet higher than the net. It was at Wimbledon so maybe the grass made him hit lower, but what I saw was probably up to 4-5 feet over the net max.

user92626 03-14-2012 03:16 PM

There's a youtube clip posted by aimr with Warinka and another 1hbh dude. They don't hit over 5 feet above the net. Occasionally they do loop the ball high though.

LeeD 03-14-2012 03:25 PM

I think "10' " over the net is a little bit of a stretch. Yes, pros do hit that high once in a blue moon, but only on defense wanting the point to end.
Think of the ballspeed of balls hit that high, even with heavy topspin. A baseliner can move forwards, take the volley in middle of NML, aim for a corner with a low skidder slice, and make it 4' inside the service line before a passing shot is attempted.
Net is 3'. 10' higher makes a ball hit THIRTEEN FEET above the ground!

Limpinhitter 03-14-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion3 (Post 6391805)
I saw Borg play close up, once - he did hit it quite high during rallies, but not 8-10 feet higher than the net. It was at Wimbledon so maybe the grass made him hit lower, but what I saw was probably up to 4-5 feet over the net max.

I've seen Borg play a few times. I would have guessed 5-6 feet over the net. I also would have thought Connors was hitting 2-3 feet over the net. But, Braden claims that his measurements are based on high speed film and exacting calculations. So, argue with him.

Limpinhitter 03-14-2012 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by user92626 (Post 6391918)
There's a youtube clip posted by aimr with Warinka and another 1hbh dude. They don't hit over 5 feet above the net. Occasionally they do loop the ball high though.

That's a great clip. Modern racquets allow pros to hit with more spin, but also more pace. So, that would seem to cancel each other out in terms of height needed to generate depth.

jayoub95 03-14-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy (Post 6386411)
I'm a 4.0 USTA dubs player. When I stroke forehands or serves for example, I try to hit hard without reference to the ball's flight clearance over the net. I think it is too much focus on hitting hard and being satisfied that the ball is in (depth and direction aside).
I think it was Vic Braden that would have people hit through actual windows above the net.
Does anyone focus on height over the net and if so, how does one train/practice both mentally and physically without aids.

Height = Depth. You should be hitting the ball about the height of 1 racquet above the net. Should give you reasonable depth and will create a high percentage rally ball.

rkelley 03-14-2012 08:32 PM

Here's Borg and Lendl in a 921 shot rally at the 1981 Masters. Judge the height of the ball over the net for yourself. Remember that 6 feet over the net means that one the players could stand on the net cord and the ball would graze the top of their heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jZmFMUGTTU

FWIW, I'd estimate most of their shots are around 3 feet over the net, or about 6 feet off the ground.

Here's Jimbo and John from the 1984 USO semi. Again, I'm seeing a couple of feet max. net clearance on balls that they're hitting offensively. Neither guy is Mr. topspin. There are defensive shots that are higher. Overall seems lower than Borg and Lendl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiDZQIE0uLE

Fast forward three decades to Fed and Djokovic at the USO semi. With the pace those two were hitting with there's no way the ball is more a foot or so over the net on most shots. I am still in awe of the pace and consistency that they generated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXNc_iMkSIY


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse