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-   -   The apocalypse is upon us: Fed learns to go to Nadal's BH (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=417309)

mcenroefan 03-17-2012 08:26 PM

The apocalypse is upon us: Fed learns to go to Nadal's BH
 
OMG....I can't believe that I've seen it! Fed finally learns to beat on Nadal's BH!....at least more than customarily does such as in the AO semi.

Couple of Questions:

1. How much did Fed pay Nole for the tip?
2. How much did Fed pay Thor to use his hammer to beat the new strategy into Fed's thick skull?

Here's hoping that Fed continues and increases on the trend.

OddJack 03-17-2012 08:29 PM

Nah, he did the same at AO too.

What he did wrong at AO was approaching on Nadal's FH. He didnt make the same mistake here, he actually didnt approach much,

The impressive part was that he beat him off the baseline, just like he did at WTF.

Steve_Fox 03-17-2012 08:36 PM

Nadal really has no other way to beat Roger than hittin lifted balls to Rogers backhand and hope that he makes lot of unforced errors , seriously thats all he was doing the entire match , he has no variety

FlashFlare11 03-17-2012 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OddJack (Post 6402778)
Nah, he did the same at AO too.

What he did wrong at AO was approaching on Nadal's FH. He didnt make the same mistake here, he actually didnt approach much,

The impressive part was that he beat him off the baseline, just like he did at WTF.

Yep, that was key. He only approached when he was absolutely sure that he would win the point. He also didn't get passed much (once or twice for the match). Serving was excellent, and that really helped. But, as you said, the Federer forehand to Nadal's backhand was key tonight, as it will be in their future matches.

Crisstti 03-17-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_Fox (Post 6402815)
Nadal really has no other way to beat Roger than hittin lifted balls to Rogers backhand and hope that he makes lot of unforced errors , seriously thats all he was doing the entire match , he has no variety

Actually, when he did best in the match, at the end of the second set, he was doing that much less.

ChanceEncounter 03-17-2012 08:40 PM

Federer must serve well if he wants to beat Nadal. He did it here, which took the pressure off him and put it on Nadal to keep pace. If Federer doesn't get the majority of his first serves in and doesn't dictate points with his serve, he's probably going to lose against Rafa.

seattle_1hander 03-17-2012 08:46 PM

Do you think earlier in Federer's career it was sort of a pride thing that he didn't want to defeat Nadal the "ugly" way aka the way Nadal had been defeating him?

rommil 03-17-2012 08:50 PM

Wtf 2011........

forthegame 03-17-2012 08:53 PM

Nadal's BH is no pushover. You have to hit it deep and consistently to have an effect. To date only Djoker has been able to do it masterfully.

Clay would be the ultimate test.

Today, Federer didn't make too many mistakes while targetting it like he usually does. Is this a breakthrough? WSS.

Cup8489 03-17-2012 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattle_1hander (Post 6402855)
Do you think earlier in Federer's career it was sort of a pride thing that he didn't want to defeat Nadal the "ugly" way aka the way Nadal had been defeating him?

He's still somewhat stuck in it.Even during today's match he started going to the Nadal forehand for a while.. I was afraid he was going to allow Nadal to settle and start playing more forehands. Fortunately he stopped doing this.

It's interesting seeing Fed take Nadal's tactic and use it against him, though I would be wary of overdoing it and allowing Nadal to get comfortable with it.

Nathaniel_Near 03-17-2012 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcenroefan (Post 6402762)
OMG....I can't believe that I've seen it! Fed finally learns to beat on Nadal's BH!....at least more than customarily does such as in the AO semi.

Couple of Questions:

1. How much did Fed pay Nole for the tip?
2. How much did Fed pay Thor to use his hammer to beat the new strategy into Fed's thick skull?

Here's hoping that Fed continues and increases on the trend.



You make it sound so simple, but it isn't. Federer actually went to the BH too predictably during a lot of the AO match and didn't choose the right times to attack to the forehand and also approached too often on the FH sides - this has been stated already.

The key is: making sure Nadal is second guessing as often as possible. This is a tightrope act and the balance and timings of when to go to the fh and the bh will of course not be identical for each match or each surface.

He does this perfectly with Murray when it counts the most and showed again how confused he can make top opponents when he beat Murray in Dubai and Nadal at WTF. If Fed is on it tactically and mentally and always understanding the fluid dynamics of the match as it occurs, he should know and feel when to go where.

MichaelNadal 03-17-2012 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_Fox (Post 6402815)
Nadal really has no other way to beat Roger than hittin lifted balls to Rogers backhand and hope that he makes lot of unforced errors , seriously thats all he was doing the entire match , he has no variety

Nadal looked absolutely terrible today. A set and a half of tennis and 1 forehand winner.

Fate Archer 03-17-2012 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel_Near (Post 6402962)
You make it sound so simple, but it isn't. Federer actually went to the BH too predictably during a lot of the AO match and didn't choose the right times to attack to the forehand and also approached too often on the FH sides - this has been stated already.

The key is: making sure Nadal is second guessing as often as possible. This is a tightrope act and the balance and timings of when to go to the fh and the bh will of course not be identical for each match or each surface.

He does this perfectly with Murray when it counts the most and showed again how confused he can make top opponents when he beat Murray in Dubai and Nadal at WTF. If Fed is on it tactically and mentally and always understanding the fluid dynamics of the match as it occurs, he should know and feel when to go where.

This is perfectly well put.

There needs to be a certain balance or proportion to go to the Nadal BH and the FH as well, to make the strategy work in its fullest.

As already stated, Novak is one who managed to find and master this balance of attacks to the Nadal BH and FH side.

What makes this strategy extra difficult to execute for Federer compared to Djokovic is that when you eventually go to Nadal's forehand, he has his effective crosscourt FH to find Federer's backhand and that shot OFTEN changes the dynamic of the rallies vs Fed, as opposed to Djokovic who has a more effective DTL BH to keep the ball on Nadal's backhand.

In the end, it's all about EXECUTION, and of course, mental discipline and commitment to the strategy tried to be implemented (which influences the execution of the strategy itself).

I think Federer more often lacks in the later as opposed to the former against Nadal.

Nathaniel_Near 03-17-2012 09:34 PM

Exactly. Nadal's hooked and impressively consistent cc forehand - even on the run and while fully stretched - is the safe haven that allows Nadal to neutralise rallies in the most uncanny way. Federer's backhand does need to be *on* to deal with that appropriately and correctly, by not yielding ground from the baseline and being willing to half-volley some balls.

Getting the balance right does two things (among others):

1. When Federer does attack the Nadal forehand the response will be weaker as it will be less predictable, so he'll be forced less often to have to offer a sound rebuttal to Nadal's incessant strong negations with the backhand.

2. This in turn self perpetuates an increasing confidence in Federer, further allowing him to apply the necessary mental discipline and commitment to the winning strategy.

The mental discipline for me then comes in being able to accurately analyse the dynamic of the match mid-flow and always be *on the freaking ball*. In the end, if Federer is thinking clearly then I think he has no excuse and should win 50% of matches against Nadal - there or thereabouts. That's how I see it. One needs to find clarity in tactics.

Raz11 03-17-2012 09:36 PM

Federer did pretty well to avoid too many BH-FH exchanges this time. Whenever he did get himself in one, great half volleying and drawing Nadal out wide with his backhand was really effective and made the difference.

Nathaniel_Near 03-17-2012 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raz11 (Post 6403031)
Federer did pretty well to avoid too many BH-FH exchanges this time. Whenever he did get himself in one, great half volleying and drawing Nadal out wide with his backhand was really effective and made the difference.



Nice.

Nostradamus 03-17-2012 10:28 PM

Only worked today because of the wind. Otherwise rafa always handles that backhand just fine.

ChanceEncounter 03-17-2012 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 6403143)
Only worked today because of the wind. Otherwise rafa always handles that backhand just fine.

So, you aren't one of those people that claim that Djokovic has a matchup advantage against Nadal because he attacks his backhand?

sunny_cali 03-17-2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 6403143)
Only worked today because of the wind. Otherwise rafa always handles that backhand just fine.

Isn't Rafa supposed to be the best "wind-player" of our times ? The commentators seemed to suggest that the wind would favor Rafa more than it would Fed. Is it perhaps likely that Rafa was injured :|:confused:

NamRanger 03-17-2012 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny_cali (Post 6403180)
Isn't Rafa supposed to be the best "wind-player" of our times ? The commentators seemed to suggest that the wind would favor Rafa more than it would Fed. Is it perhaps likely that Rafa was injured :|:confused:



People overrate Nadal's ability to play in the wind because he was playing against Murray in windy conditions.


Murray can't play in windy conditions because he can't hit through it. Federer has the ability to do so. Federer didn't take out Agassi at NY in extreme windy conditions for no reason; he's a good wind player despite what everyone says.


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