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-   -   why nobody over 6'3 will dominate tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=426845)

bjk 06-05-2012 03:28 PM

why nobody over 6'3 will dominate tennis
 
Injuries. And a lack of speed.

If you're big and you want to win a major, you have to do it young. Safin (6'4) won his first slam at 20, but did win once again at 25. Delpo won USO at 21. Phillipoussis had a late run on grass when he was 27, but all of his big results came before he hit 24. Otherwise injuries hobble all of the big serving, big hitting big men as they age.

Another way to look at this is that big men get slower before they can dominate. The real question is, can their games improve faster than they slow down? Safin and Ljubicic were statues for most of their careers. Delpo is heading in that direction. Raonic will soon. Even Murray, who is famed for his speed, is really only fast for a man his size.

Headshotterer 06-05-2012 03:47 PM

True that. Also proven how 6'1 has 16 majors and is able to easily dominate people 6'2(djokovic)-6.9'(isner)

Mike Sams 06-05-2012 03:58 PM

Surfaces are too slow for the giants and big hitters. Make em all really fast and watch the pushers and grinders complain.:)

wrxinsc 06-05-2012 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjk (Post 6600954)
Injuries. And a lack of speed.

If you're big and you want to win a major, you have to do it young. Safin (6'4) won his first slam at 20, but did win once again at 25. Delpo won USO at 21. Phillipoussis had a late run on grass when he was 27, but all of his big results came before he hit 24. Otherwise injuries hobble all of the big serving, big hitting big men as they age.

Another way to look at this is that big men get slower before they can dominate. The real question is, can their games improve faster than they slow down? Safin and Ljubicic were statues for most of their careers. Delpo is heading in that direction. Raonic will soon. Even Murray, who is famed for his speed, is really only fast for a man his size.

I enjoy your theory...And find there to be some fertile territory to study (for someone more focused than me

or more '**** than me)

Power Player 06-05-2012 04:04 PM

One day there will be a modern S&V player who comes to the net and scoops up topspin shots like groundballs and throws them back for winners. That is the best chance for a big guy to dominate. They need to play tennis back to front instead of side to side.

BobFL 06-05-2012 04:08 PM

I am 6.4 and I dominate in my zip code.

cluckcluck 06-05-2012 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Sams (Post 6601027)
Surfaces are too slow for the giants and big hitters. Make em all really fast and watch the pushers and grinders complain.:)

Couldn't have said it better, especially hardcourt tournaments are terribly slow which makes it hard for tall (+6'2") big hitter to hit through the court. I'm also surprised that the taller players aren't hitting BOMBS on serve all the time. Isner served an average first serve of mid 120's. I would expect averaging mid 130's with that height.

1477aces 06-05-2012 05:13 PM

You're probably right

Sid_Vicious 06-05-2012 05:25 PM

Not lack of speed. I think it is due more to lack of agility. There are some Tall players that can get from point A to B very quickly, but their big frames prevent them from changing directions laterally.

Bobby Jr 06-05-2012 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid_Vicious (Post 6601204)
Not lack of speed. I think it is due more to lack of agility. There are some Tall players that can get from point A to B very quickly, but their big frames prevent them from changing directions laterally.

This ^.

And they also tend to be worse at moving forward to lower balls. Del Potro often amazes at how well he handles low, short balls with such a big swing but, in the long, it's more difficult for them. The longer a match or slower the court, the more movement shortcomings get highlighted.

corners 06-05-2012 06:17 PM

I've always thought that tennis is a point guard's game. The average NBA point guard is 6'1", about the same as the best ATP players. But the thing is that there are guys who have played well and dominated at the point that are quite taller than 6'3" - Magic Johnson, Oscar Robinson, etc. I could see those guys dominating in tennis too. It's also hard to picture super-athletic shooting guards like Michael Jordan (6'6") and DeWayne Wade (6'4") not being significantly better at tennis than Berdych and Del Potro. My impression is that we just have not seen a tall athlete of that caliber in tennis, yet. But it's easy to imagine LeBron shedding some muscle mass and absolutely shredding the ATP (had he studied tennis from childhood of course).

Bobby Jr 06-05-2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 6601279)
..it's easy to imagine LeBron shedding some muscle mass and absolutely shredding the ATP (had he studied tennis from childhood of course).

You mean assuming he wasn't the mental midget he proved to be last year when it mattered most?

mightyrick 06-05-2012 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 6601279)
I've always thought that tennis is a point guard's game. The average NBA point guard is 6'1", about the same as the best ATP players. But the thing is that there are guys who have played well and dominated at the point that are quite taller than 6'3" - Magic Johnson, Oscar Robinson, etc. I could see those guys dominating in tennis too. It's also hard to picture super-athletic shooting guards like Michael Jordan (6'6") and DeWayne Wade (6'4") not being significantly better at tennis than Berdych and Del Potro. My impression is that we just have not seen a tall athlete of that caliber in tennis, yet. But it's easy to imagine LeBron shedding some muscle mass and absolutely shredding the ATP (had he studied tennis from childhood of course).

You mean like GaŽl Monfils? He is probably every bit as athletic (if not more so) as the NBA players that you named. Body style and mechanics has a lot to do with any given sport. But even still, he isn't even close to the players above him.

But dominant basketball players do not have the ideal body type for tennis. They are too tall. I could not remotely imagine LeBron James being able to play tennis. He's far too big. The modern game of tennis does not favor a big man. Sad, but it is reality.

Honestly, if there were sports whose players could probably dominate on a tennis court I'd say it was either table tennis or badminton. In those sports... the players have to be incredibly quick to the ball compared to tennis... faster reaction times... faster decision times. Also, taking the ball early and taking time away from the opponent is a manner of course in both sports.

sonicare 06-05-2012 08:04 PM

What about the great sachin tendulkar. How would he fare as a tennis player?

Raging Buddha 06-06-2012 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonicare (Post 6601494)
What about the great sachin tendulkar. How would he fare as a tennis player?

Too short and chubby. :)

Jks, I love that guy, though honestly I'm not sure how his 5'4" frame would be able to provide an above-average serve. Even David Ferrer, short by professional tennis standards, is only 5'9".

joeri888 06-06-2012 04:03 AM

If you are 2.40m tall, and you learn how to hit a back and forehand, as well as some average smash and volley, you can easily win a major. Just go out there and train like Karlovic. It's possible to do that from even higher up there and just hit unreturnables all the time. I do believe that at some point a guy like that might come out there and play the most boring tennis ever. After that, we'll probably get a heightened net or something, which will lead to boring Nadal tennis with only loopy shots again.

bjk 06-06-2012 06:12 AM

Players like Isner and Karlovic do seem to be an exception. They don't try to beat shorter opponents at their own game, instead they conserve energy by playing short points and use their length at net. And because net games develop more slowly, they get better later. I don't know if that sort of game is more than a niche though. If more played that style, opponents might develop an effective counterstrategy. And in any case there are very few people in the world who are a) that tall and b) good athletes and c) naturally skinny.

BTW Isner is actually quite a beanpole when you see him in person. Same goes for most tennis players. We're so used to obesity that some fit tennis players look unnaturally skinny in person.

dominikk1985 06-06-2012 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjk (Post 6602510)
Players like Isner and Karlovic do seem to be an exception. They don't try to beat shorter opponents at their own game, instead they conserve energy by playing short points and use their length at net. And because net games develop more slowly, they get better later. I don't know if that sort of game is more than a niche though. If more played that style, opponents might develop an effective counterstrategy. And in any case there are very few people in the world who are a) that tall and b) good athletes and c) naturally skinny.

BTW Isner is actually quite a beanpole when you see him in person. Same goes for most tennis players. We're so used to obesity that some fit tennis players look unnaturally skinny in person.

thry have to play like this. Isner and karlovic actually have a very good technique on their groundies. Ivo can rip FH winners if he has time.

but the problem is that they can't use their groundgame since any good opponent makes them run so that they just reach the ball and have to play back defensively.

so they have to go for the ace if they want to win. being that tall is not an advantage exept for the serve.

I think a good athlete can dominate tennis at 6"3 but you can't get much taller. above 6"4 it becomes really tough especially with the injuries.

Andres 06-06-2012 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cluckcluck (Post 6601129)
Couldn't have said it better, especially hardcourt tournaments are terribly slow which makes it hard for tall (+6'2") big hitter to hit through the court. I'm also surprised that the taller players aren't hitting BOMBS on serve all the time. Isner served an average first serve of mid 120's. I would expect averaging mid 130's with that height.

That's because they don't hit flat all the time. Taller people hit spinny serves outwide a lot, and that bring down their average serve speed.

If there was a stat for average 1st serve speed for flat serves, yes, Isner would be well over 130.

Flash O'Groove 06-06-2012 07:36 AM

Also I think it as a lot to do with how tennis player develop. Young players who have a natural advantage will probably heavily rely on it and maximize it. Tall players can win a lot of match early in their career because the serve and big forehand is enough to beat their opponents. Later, when they meet the fed and nadal like, it is too late for them to developp a different game.


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