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-   -   Is this DQ Ridiculous? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=427762)

clutch21 06-11-2012 11:42 AM

Is this DQ Ridiculous?
 
Hey guys/gals,

So I just started play USTA league tennis this year in Texas. After speaking to some people, including putting a video up on talk tennis to find out an approximate rating, I decided to play 4.0 USTA (Some people told me 3.0-3.5 but I went ahead and self rated 4.0). I started playing tennis for the first time during my junior year in high school and now I'm 20. I have been playing pretty consistently over that time span (barring one year where I didn't really play). Just a little background, I play a solid counterpuncher game. I have a pretty deadly topspin forehand, a decent serve, and a weakish but very consistent slice backhand. My biggest weapon is my speed.

So far this season I have played 3 singles matches. I won them 6-3, 6-4. 6-3, 6-0, and 6-2, 6-4. My captain didn't want me playing singles anymore for the time being, just in case a "long shot" of getting DQ-ed, so he moved me to doubles which does not suit me as well. I have played four doubles matches an have split results- 3-6, 1-6. 6-2, 6-2. 5-7, 6-7. and 6-2, 6-1.

Anyways, today I received a call from the NTRP coordinator for USTA saying that I had been disqualified at 4.0, and he was now bumping me up to 4.5. Is it just me or is this kind of ridiculous? I mean, according to my results I played well at 4.0 but nothing that I would consider dominant or "out of level" play.

To make matters worse, our team was most likely on track to go to sectionals which would have been an awesome experience. Does this DQ seem justified or did I just catch some horrible luck?

anubis 06-11-2012 11:50 AM

I don't know why you think it's horrible luck. You're clearly not being challenged enough and you're probably better off at 4.5. By moving you up, USTA is trying to protect other 4.0s that are no where near ready for 4.5 play from getting slaughtered (and thus no longer enjoying the game). It's a built-in protection to keep sandbaggers from steamrolling through the season in an unfair way (though this probably isn't the case with you).

You just happened to get caught in their very-widely cast net. You'll probably have more fun in 4.5 and won't have to worry too much in being DQ'ed. Less pressure on you, PLUS your 4.5 team will be very excited to have you.

It's often more cool to have a new guy join a team because he was WAY too good for the prior level... as opposed to just some random guy who self-rated.

Just my .02 :)

t135 06-11-2012 12:02 PM

Depends on who you beat!!

J_R_B 06-11-2012 12:08 PM

"Justified" isn't the right word for it. It's a computer algorithm, not someone making a judgment, so nothing has to be justified. It seems like bad luck for you, but it's hard to say without more background on the opponents.

spot 06-11-2012 12:22 PM

It sounds like you were a bit unlucky. It also sounds like you would hang no problem at 4.5 so that is where you should be playing. I think as a general rule it should be a goal for USTA that the best players on playoff teams are not self rated.

AR15 06-11-2012 12:27 PM

I haven't played any counter punchers with "pretty deadly topspin forehand".

A correctly rated self rater should have at least a loss or two, or more even scores like a 6-4, 7-5, or 7-6.

And USTA does not simply look at your scores. The strength of your opponents is taken into consideration.



Isn't is odd that so many teams makes it to the tournaments with self rated players like you? wink

clutch21 06-11-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR15 (Post 6623281)
I haven't played any counter punchers with "pretty deadly topspin forehand".

A correctly rated self rater should have at least a loss or two, or more even scores like a 6-4, 7-5, or 7-6.

And USTA does not simply look at your scores. The strength of your opponents is taken into consideration.



Isn't is odd that so many teams makes it to the tournaments with self rated players like you? wink

Well then I guess you haven't played anyone like me yet.. wink. As I stated in my original post I have two losses in doubles, so I'm 5-2 this season. Also, I am not the best player on the team. We have two other singles players who are either better or right around the same level as I am.

JLyon 06-11-2012 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch21 (Post 6623433)
Well then I guess you haven't played anyone like me yet.. wink. As I stated in my original post I have two losses in doubles, so I'm 5-2 this season. Also, I am not the best player on the team. We have two other singles players who are either better or right around the same level as I am.

I see 2 strikes in the doubles alone and one or 2 strikes in singles, so seems like it was justified, it sucks but look like Computer ruled you above level, but yes it does stink for your team. BTW it does not matter if you lose, if you're beating "B" Rated players.

clutch21 06-11-2012 01:16 PM

I have nothing against playing 4.5.. now that I know that I can hang. But, I think some of you are missing one of the points that I was making. It is very late in the season so I can't just join a 4.5 team. So i'm finished. I wasn't "whipping" people at the 4.0 level so you can't really call me a sandbagger. My biggest victory was 6-0, 6-3 and my opponent played horrible on that given day. I understand that this is just how the system works, but it just sucks.

On top of that we were likely going to sectionals which would have been a lot of fun. Also, I live in Austin. We don't have 4.5 USTA tennis in the fall... so I won't be able to play for quite awhile.

cknobman 06-11-2012 01:21 PM

It really is hard to say without knowing any of the people you played.

Even though you had 2 losses none were in singles and all of your wins were in straights (most of them pretty easy straights too).

As a self rate with no history to go off of its quite easy to get a dq especially if you beat some quality players.

cknobman 06-11-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch21 (Post 6623481)
I have nothing against playing 4.5.. now that I know that I can hang. But, I think some of you are missing one of the points that I was making. It is very late in the season so I can't just join a 4.5 team. So i'm finished. I wasn't "whipping" people at the 4.0 level so you can't really call me a sandbagger. My biggest victory was 6-0, 6-3 and my opponent played horrible on that given day. I understand that this is just how the system works, but it just sucks.

On top of that we were likely going to sectionals which would have been a lot of fun. Also, I live in Austin. We don't have 4.5 USTA tennis in the fall... so I won't be able to play for quite awhile.

Tournaments.

JLyon 06-11-2012 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch21 (Post 6623481)
I have nothing against playing 4.5.. now that I know that I can hang. But, I think some of you are missing one of the points that I was making. It is very late in the season so I can't just join a 4.5 team. So i'm finished. I wasn't "whipping" people at the 4.0 level so you can't really call me a sandbagger. My biggest victory was 6-0, 6-3 and my opponent played horrible on that given day. I understand that this is just how the system works, but it just sucks.

On top of that we were likely going to sectionals which would have been a lot of fun. Also, I live in Austin. We don't have 4.5 USTA tennis in the fall... so I won't be able to play for quite awhile.

Don't worry you will have plenty of Passing Shots to hit while you prepare for the shorten fall season, yes there is an abbreviated fall season for 4.5 1 singles, 2 doubles.

goober 06-11-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch21 (Post 6623433)
Well then I guess you haven't played anyone like me yet.. wink. As I stated in my original post I have two losses in doubles, so I'm 5-2 this season. Also, I am not the best player on the team. We have two other singles players who are either better or right around the same level as I am.

5-2 record does not preclude 3 strikes. You could potentially have a 3-5 record with 3 strikes. I had 4.0S player that got bumped with a 3-3 record. Not being the best player on your team is also irrelevant for Dq purposes.

So basically sux for you. Try to play some mixed, tournaments or flex until next season.

clutch21 06-11-2012 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLyon (Post 6623519)
Don't worry you will have plenty of Passing Shots to hit while you prepare for the shorten fall season, yes there is an abbreviated fall season for 4.5 1 singles, 2 doubles.

Haha, Are you from Austin? I didn't know there was a season in the fall.. thats cool.

clutch21 06-11-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cknobman (Post 6623503)
Tournaments.

Good call. I forgot about tournaments.

escii_35 06-11-2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch21 (Post 6623142)
Hey guys/gals,

So he moved me to doubles which does not suit me as well. I have played four doubles matches an have split results- 3-6, 1-6. 6-2, 6-2. 5-7, 6-7. and 6-2, 6-1.

Should have started with dubs. I'm a horrific mens doubles player with a game that needs work. I found out over the course of a year of 3.5 dubs I picked up 2 grievances and a strike.

Sheesh I only went 6-3.

OrangePower 06-11-2012 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober (Post 6623529)
5-2 record does not preclude 3 strikes. You could potentially have a 3-5 record with 3 strikes. I had 4.0S player that got bumped with a 3-3 record. Not being the best player on your team is also irrelevant for Dq purposes.

Yup. In fact you could potentially have a 0-3 record and still have 3 strikes :shock:

Very unlikely of course, but for example 3 losses to good opponents where the opponents win like 1-6 6-3 1-0 could do it. It's all about the number of games won/lost and against who... in example above you get 9 games opponent gets 8, so according to the computer you are better, and if opponent has good dynamic NTRP there's a potential strike.

cll30 06-11-2012 05:19 PM

I'm from Austin and over the last several years have played with or against about 7 of your opponents or teammates. No doubt some of them have improved since I last played them, but I think you may have just been a bit unlucky. If you were a computer rated 4.0 I don't think anyone would think your record was out of line.

clutch21 06-11-2012 07:05 PM

Its just pretty frustrating because there are several other players in the league, including some of my teammates who have been pretty dominant this season. I'm talking undefeated with easy straight sets. It's a broke system if these players can't be DQed just because they aren't "self-rate". If the whole point of the DQ system is to stop sandbaggers then all league members regardless of self rate should be bumped immediately if they are deemed "out of level".

I hear everyone that you can get DQed easily, even if your losing too, but don't you guys think that is pretty absurd? I mean it's one thing if someone is wrecking 6-1, 6-2, etc every match to DQ them, but it's another to DQ someone for going 5-2 and having some pretty close sets. At the very least I should be able to finish out the season that I paid for.

clutch21 06-11-2012 07:15 PM

Also, some of you mentioned that it depends on who you are playing.

Well, my last strike came this past sunday. I played doubles with my teammate who is 9-0 this season. We played a doubles team with one guy who is 1-8 this season and his teammate who was 1-1 (and was playing for the first time in two months after being injured).

Seems bogus to me.


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