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-   -   What's the rule regarding defaults and rescheduling? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=428218)

Matt H. 06-14-2012 06:51 PM

What's the rule regarding defaults and rescheduling?
 
We're in our local playoffs that have to be finished by next Tuesday.

We're down to final match that got rained out 2 weeks ago. Tonight we play and the other team only brought 6 players. No match for #3 doubles. We assume it's a default.

We play for 2 hours and then rain comes. One match is finished. Other 3 are deep in the 2nd set.

We reschedule for next Monday, but the other captain says #3 doubles will play then. We say no way it's a default. Anyone know what the ruling is in this kind of scenario?

loosegroove 06-14-2012 07:55 PM

Yeah, how wouldn't that be a default for their #3 doubles?

Cindysphinx 06-15-2012 04:01 AM

Go by whatever is written on the scorecard when you exchanged line-ups.

You, uh, did exchange scorecards, right?

floridatennisdude 06-15-2012 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt H. (Post 6633157)
We're in our local playoffs that have to be finished by next Tuesday.

We're down to final match that got rained out 2 weeks ago. Tonight we play and the other team only brought 6 players. No match for #3 doubles. We assume it's a default.

We play for 2 hours and then rain comes. One match is finished. Other 3 are deep in the 2nd set.

We reschedule for next Monday, but the other captain says #3 doubles will play then. We say no way it's a default. Anyone know what the ruling is in this kind of scenario?

http://assets.usta.com/assets/651/15...08_2011%5D.pdf

2.03C(1)c Match Started, Suspended, and Resumed Another Day. If the team match has started and play has been suspended and rescheduled for another day, a new line-up may be presented for any individual match that has not started and for any individual match indicated as a default on the initial line-up. Individual matches that started will resume play at the point play was suspended.

----

Unless your local league has an over-riding rule, your opponents got super lucky. IMO, this is a bad rule. If it affects the outcome of your match, I would write a letter letting the section folks know the story.

Cindysphinx 06-15-2012 05:14 AM

Hmmm. Here's our rule. It doesn't mention defaults.

What would happen if I had two players there ready to play, and opponents arrive after the default period because they got caught in traffic or opposing team was short on players? Then the rain starts. Do they get to withdraw the default?

What if my players warm up for 15 minutes and then serve a ball into an unoccupied court?

"Line-up Changes for Matches Rescheduled to a different
Date. If a league match is cancelled/rescheduled to another
day after line-ups are exchanged but before players
complete warm-up or commence play (first service
attempt), then captains are free to utilize the same or
different line-up at the rescheduled “make-up” match. For
any individual matches that have commenced play before
the match is interrupted/rescheduled, those same players
must complete their suspended matches, whether finished
separately or all at the same time, on or before the assigned rescheduled date."

bcart1991 06-15-2012 06:05 AM

That's the default-rainout catch-22. Any matches that were supposed to be defaults can be played if players are available. I've been on both sides of the situation.

Situation stinks, but rules is rules.

spot 06-15-2012 06:08 AM

In that situation then the match would have commenced with the other team defaulting the line. I think that would make the default official. It would be different if the other team were defaulting a line but it never had the chance to start- then the rain washes out the default. Even in a situation were there were only 4 courts, since one of the matches ended and then the 3 doubles would have started so the default should stick.

Matt H. 06-15-2012 07:45 AM

if that's the rule then that really stinks for us.

We won #1 doubles and our #2 doubles was up 6-2 3-0. That means we go from 3 games away from winning, to now having to play out that 3rd doubles. Both of our singles matches are down a set and battling tied in the 2nd.

Other team is catching a major, major break.

SweetH2O 06-15-2012 08:13 AM

Either you are the better team or you're not. You may have caught a break by having the original match rained out when they had their whole team available.

I understand that it's easy to get wrapped up in the emotions of the playoffs, but it really is most fair if the match is decided on the court rather than based on people's ability to rearrange their personal schedules around a rained-out match.

OrangePower 06-15-2012 08:29 AM

This is one of those national rules subject to interpretation by each section. This is from the Norcal captains' handbook, and seems reasonable to me:

(bold emphasis is mine)

Rain Scenarios:

1. It rains but no match has started:
The away team arrives, captains exchange line-ups, everyone is warming up, no one has started, it rains. When the match is rescheduled, the teams can use totally new line-ups. Any defaulted individual match disappears.

2. It rains after any individual match has started:
The away team arrives, captains exchange line-ups, two individual matches start, it rains. (Remember, if even one ball has been put in play (not warm-up) in your team match, the match has officially started.) When the match is rescheduled, the players who started in those two individual matches return and start exactly where they left off. For the remaining match or matches that did not start, the captains may use different players. Any defaulted individual match stands as a default.

Cindysphinx 06-15-2012 08:30 AM

^Once again, Norcal has the best rule.

kylebarendrick 06-15-2012 09:07 AM

Of course we do Cindy. let me know when you decide to move out here - I'll hold a spot for you on my mixed team. I don't even care how you play, the entertainment value would be pricless.

F L O B B E R 06-15-2012 09:22 AM

Oh come on... is Sportsmanship dead? Let the team play. You would feel better about the win - not to mention your #3 Doubles team would get to enjoy the excitement of competing in a playoff match instead of being handed a W via a technicality. Seriously, folks - we aren't playing for money here...

spot 06-15-2012 09:43 AM

Lets make the situation more extreme. There is a big conflict where the entire team is out of town for a girls beach trip and no one wants to come back early since the forecast makes it likely it is going to rain. The team can only field a single solitary singles player- they are defaulting the other 4 lines. It simply cannot be possible that its OK for that singles player to delay delay delay and wait for the rain to come in and then have that rain wash out the other 4 defaults where they could field a full lineup the next day? No way. Once a court is available and the other team has defaulted then the default has to stand.

Cindysphinx 06-15-2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylebarendrick (Post 6634718)
Of course we do Cindy. let me know when you decide to move out here - I'll hold a spot for you on my mixed team. I don't even care how you play, the entertainment value would be pricless.

Hey, I used to live in SF. I miss it.

Still, the offer is tempting . . . .

floridatennisdude 06-15-2012 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F L O B B E R (Post 6634772)
Oh come on... is Sportsmanship dead? Let the team play. You would feel better about the win - not to mention your #3 Doubles team would get to enjoy the excitement of competing in a playoff match instead of being handed a W via a technicality. Seriously, folks - we aren't playing for money here...

Double edged sword...wouldn't the opponents win on technicality if they get to now play and then win? They were the unprepared ones for the set date/time. Went as far as to inform opponent of a default that now gets recinded...on a technicality.

That is why OP is frustrated. Getting pencil whipped sucks.

Matt H. 06-15-2012 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F L O B B E R (Post 6634772)
Oh come on... is Sportsmanship dead? Let the team play. You would feel better about the win - not to mention your #3 Doubles team would get to enjoy the excitement of competing in a playoff match instead of being handed a W via a technicality. Seriously, folks - we aren't playing for money here...


I think your line of thinking regarding Sportsmanship can go both ways.

If the match time is 7pm and an opponent shows up at 7:17. That's technically a default. Would I be inclined to ignore and play the match? Yeah...I didn't rush out of work to waste my evening winning by default and not getting to play any tennis.

If they don't even show up at all that's a waste of my night. I would take the default and mentally move on to the next match.

F L O B B E R 06-15-2012 12:53 PM

Yes, sportsmanship goes both ways. But would you REALLY feel ok about demanding that a doubles match not take place where both teams are ready and willing to play because of a technicality?

It's not like the situation in question was caused by the other team (or were they spotted doing a rain dance at some point?).

The bottom line is we all play TENNIS. Winners and losers should be decided on the COURT first, not in the rule book.

I guess I would just feel better about the whole situation if I moved on to the next round knowing that we won because we were the better team, not because of some rule that allowed us to take a W without having to hit a ball.

Matt H. 06-15-2012 01:28 PM

they didnt show on the night of the match.


so i guess a good tactic would be if you're taking a default but the weather gets cloudy....slow the play down as much as possible and hope for rain so you can recover the default. Take over 30 seconds between serves. Take maximum rest on change over. Have both partners take bathroom breaks.

Matt H. 06-19-2012 07:12 AM

we won 4-1 last night.


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