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-   -   The plague of the opposing doubles partner who 'did not see !' (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=429548)

oldhacker 06-26-2012 02:43 AM

The plague of the opposing doubles partner who 'did not see !'
 
Following a spell of hard graft on my serve which has delivered some extra pace, depth and placement I am increasingly being bothered by the plague of the opposing doubles partner who 'did not see' where my serve landed relative to the service line despite the fact they are were standing on the service line (ie perfectly placed with little else to do while their partner tried to return serve).

I have learnt to accept the quirk of iffy line calls by the opposing baseline player as I realise that it is very hard to call correctly when you are on top of the ball and that the net player is not best placed even if they do happen to be looking behind them. However, I am becoming increasingly frustrated at the frequency with which my new improved first serve is being called out by the receiver when my partner and I think it is good and the opposing net player 'did not see.'

I acknowledge that it is hard to call the service line as the returner on big serves and there is often an instinctive reaction to call a close to line serve which 'got you' out. However there is no excuse for the 'did not see' from their partner.

Chivo 06-26-2012 04:14 AM

Had it happen to me several times last night in a mixed doubles match. When he was returning my serve, she called several "out" after he had already returned the ball. The out calls always came when he netted or hit a return out. He shrugged his shoulders as to say he thought it was good but never over ruled her. She had a *itchy attitude the entire match, so it felt great beating them in straight sets.

jdubbs 06-26-2012 06:22 AM

I have a hard time seeing that shot, as well. Cant really tell where it lands many times.

zcarzach 06-26-2012 06:24 AM

Its tough, but as the net man on the returning team, just watch the service line. Don't try to watch it all the way from the server to the court, you'll miss close calls. If you watch the line, you can almost always get a good call. Once the ball is in, refocus on your preferred target.

dcdoorknob 06-26-2012 06:46 AM

It isn't entirely clear to me, but which line are you talking about? Is the returner calling the serves long, or wide?

For me in doubles, the line parallel to the net/baseline, or long call, is primarily the responsibility of the returner's partner, so if it's that line that the returner is calling very tight and the partner is not seeing, then I think you've got a legitimate reason to be annoyed. The returner has a much worse angle to see that call clearly than the returner's partner, assuming the partner is playing up.

If it's the line perpendicular to the net/baseline, to me that's usually the returner's line to call. If I'm the returner's partner, I'm not going to overrule my partner on that line very often unless I'm just very sure it was a mistake. It's hard to see that line clearly from the net, the angle is just bad.

I do have a serve that I like in the deuce court that basically starts like it's going wide and then twists its way in due to the spin on it, so I can sympathize with occasionally having someone who isn't used to seeing that serve call it wide several times when I strongly suspect it is landing in.

oldhacker 06-26-2012 07:01 AM

I am referring to when the returner calls an 'ace' serve long, me and my partner both think it looked good but his partner (who is standing on the service line, so has the best view) conveniently 'did not see'. Happens too much and I am increasingly interpreting 'did not see' as 'I am not going to over-rule my partner.'



It isn't entirely clear to me, but which line are you talking about? Is the returner calling the serves long, or wide?

spot 06-26-2012 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldhacker (Post 6660634)
However there is no excuse for the 'did not see' from their partner.

Would you like to say that you overrule your partner every time you think that they possibly maight have gotten a call wrong?

esgee48 06-26-2012 07:12 AM

Returner's partner should be standing just in front of the service line looking back. It's easier to see if there is a different color between the white line and court from that position than when standing behind the service line.

JMO, but if your partner is not calling the service line parallel to the net when you're receiving, then he/she is not doing their job. I normally tell my partners to help me call that line and I would call the line perpendicular to the net.

blakesq 06-26-2012 07:51 AM

the less you worry about it ,the better time you will have. Worry about calling the balls on your own side of the net, and letting the other team call the balls on their side of the net. Otherwise, you will be angry/frustrated much of the time, and is that why you are playing tennis? On the other hand, if you are playing with CHEATERS, then simply don't play with them any more.

Also, if I were your opponents, and you were getting mad at me for not seeing your serves as in or out, then I have the perfect response "Serve the ball slower, and I can call them better!". :)

This reminds me, on occasion, against a big server, I may have a hard time seeing the ball in or out when served to my partner, so in that case, I have to consider it as Good. When my partner returns the ball, and the serving side just watches it and says "that looked out to us", I have to say, "I couldnt call it in or out, so we to play it as being good." If the serving team starts to get mad at us, I simply say "If you want me to make better calls on your serves, start serving them slower!" :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldhacker (Post 6660634)
Following a spell of hard graft on my serve which has delivered some extra pace, depth and placement I am increasingly being bothered by the plague of the opposing doubles partner who 'did not see' where my serve landed relative to the service line despite the fact they are were standing on the service line (ie perfectly placed with little else to do while their partner tried to return serve).

I have learnt to accept the quirk of iffy line calls by the opposing baseline player as I realise that it is very hard to call correctly when you are on top of the ball and that the net player is not best placed even if they do happen to be looking behind them. However, I am becoming increasingly frustrated at the frequency with which my new improved first serve is being called out by the receiver when my partner and I think it is good and the opposing net player 'did not see.'

I acknowledge that it is hard to call the service line as the returner on big serves and there is often an instinctive reaction to call a close to line serve which 'got you' out. However there is no excuse for the 'did not see' from their partner.


Govnor 06-26-2012 07:58 AM

Just a personal opinion but I really don't like looking back at the line and then quickly turning my head around and adjusting to the ball in play. Much easier for the receiver to call it (I think).

LuckyR 06-26-2012 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esgee48 (Post 6661112)
Returner's partner should be standing just in front of the service line looking back. It's easier to see if there is a different color between the white line and court from that position than when standing behind the service line.

JMO, but if your partner is not calling the service line parallel to the net when you're receiving, then he/she is not doing their job. I normally tell my partners to help me call that line and I would call the line perpendicular to the net.

This may come as a suprise but the returner's partner's job is NOT to call lines, it is to be ready for the potential poach. Wherever they choose to position themselves is their choice and they try their best to call lines from wherever that happens to be.

zcarzach 06-26-2012 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Govnor (Post 6661336)
Just a personal opinion but I really don't like looking back at the line and then quickly turning my head around and adjusting to the ball in play. Much easier for the receiver to call it (I think).

It is next to impossible for the receiver to make an accurate call on a ball that is close to the service line. It is your job as the partner to make that call. Its the right thing to do for your partner and, frankly, for yourself, as I bet your partner plays a lot of shots off serves that are out, as it is really tough to make those calls.

blakesq 06-26-2012 08:30 AM

actually, you are wrong Luckyr. It is the partner's job to call the serves out on the service line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyR (Post 6661437)
This may come as a suprise but the returner's partner's job is NOT to call lines, it is to be ready for the potential poach. Wherever they choose to position themselves is their choice and they try their best to call lines from wherever that happens to be.


beernutz 06-26-2012 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyR (Post 6661437)
This may come as a suprise but the returner's partner's job is NOT to call lines, it is to be ready for the potential poach. Wherever they choose to position themselves is their choice and they try their best to call lines from wherever that happens to be.

From 'The Code':

24. Service calls in doubles. In doubles the receiverís partner should call the service line, and the receiver should call the sideline and the center service line. Nonetheless, either partner may call a ball that either clearly sees.

LuckyR 06-26-2012 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakesq (Post 6661525)
actually, you are wrong Luckyr. It is the partner's job to call the serves out on the service line.

We all agree on that (obviously), but it is not the job of the netman to position themselves for optimal line calling, it is to position themselves for optimal tennis playing.

From my original post: "Wherever they choose to position themselves is their choice and they try their best to call lines from wherever that happens to be."

zcarzach 06-26-2012 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyR (Post 6661541)
We all agree on that (obviously), but it is not the job of the netman to position themselves for optimal line calling, it is to position themselves for optimal tennis playing.

From my original post: "Wherever they choose to position themselves is their choice and they try their best to call lines from wherever that happens to be."

If you call lines appropriately, you will prevent your partner from playing serves that are close, but out. There is no more "optimal" way to win than to not have to hit an out shot.

I agree that the best doubles position is to prepare for the poach when you have a line judge. Otherwise, you have to make those calls, and make them correctly. To do this you have to be on that line. It is easy to take a step or two up after you know the serve is good.

LuckyR 06-26-2012 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zcarzach (Post 6661560)
If you call lines appropriately, you will prevent your partner from playing serves that are close, but out. There is no more "optimal" way to win than to not have to hit an out shot.

I agree that the best doubles position is to prepare for the poach when you have a line judge. Otherwise, you have to make those calls, and make them correctly. To do this you have to be on that line. It is easy to take a step or two up after you know the serve is good.

Trust me, there are plenty (did I mention there are plenty?) of Rec and Club doubles players who make very sure that their partners hit extremely few "out" serves without the benefit of above average line calling accuracy.

zcarzach 06-26-2012 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyR (Post 6661567)
Trust me, there are plenty (did I mention there are plenty?) of Rec and Club doubles players who make very sure that their partners hit extremely few "out" serves without the benefit of above average line calling accuracy.

No doubt. But I don't want to play with cheaters, and I don't want a cheater for a partner, which is what you are describing there.

spot 06-26-2012 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zcarzach (Post 6661442)
It is next to impossible for the receiver to make an accurate call on a ball that is close to the service line.

Seems strange that we ask the receiver to make this call all the time in singles when its "next to impossible"

Govnor 06-26-2012 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spot (Post 6661587)
Seems strange that we ask the receiver to make this call all the time when its "next to impossible"

Right. Saying it's "next to impossible" is a huge reach.


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