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-   -   Tension: crosses vs mains (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=433748)

nglaser 07-26-2012 09:11 AM

Tension: crosses vs mains
 
Its a no brainier when stringing multi mains & poly crosses to strings the crosses about 4 pounds less than the mains. What about when they are switched; poly mains & multi crosses. If I string multi mains @ 58 & poly crosses @ 54 then switched what tension is recommended? I'm thinking a good starting point would be to string both @ 56 and go from there.

drakulie 07-26-2012 09:44 AM

What are you trying to hope to achieve by changing tensions in mains vs crosses?

Poly is going to lose tension much faster than a multi anyway, so why drop the reference tension?

10ismom 07-26-2012 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakulie (Post 6753551)
What are you trying to hope to achieve by changing tensions in mains vs crosses?

Poly is going to lose tension much faster than a multi anyway, so why drop the reference tension?

I was having the same question whether I should try to have different tension in poly and multi if to goal is to create more ball pocketting and spin?

My daughter's current hybrid set up is NXT 16cross and smooth poly main. Both strung at 54 lbs.

Drak....what do you think will create more pocketing and more spin friendly..... either to lower tension in main poly only or lower in both main and cross?

JohnB 07-26-2012 11:39 AM

Isn't it most important to set the tension mains/crosses in such a way that frame doesn't distort?
If that's true, there is little you can do except changing mains vs crosses or change stringtype/tension all together?

nglaser 07-26-2012 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakulie (Post 6753551)
What are you trying to hope to achieve by changing tensions in mains vs crosses?

Poly is going to lose tension much faster than a multi anyway, so why drop the reference tension?

I always string the crosses 2 to 4 #'s less than the mains even when using the same strings in both, so do a lot of other people. You do this to equalize the tension across the string bed. Are yo saying you string a poly at the same tension you string a multi?? If so you are in the minority.

PKfan1 07-26-2012 05:33 PM

I don't think I've seen people stringing mains tighter. It's always crosses 1-3 lbs tighter, because there is so much more friction pulling tension on the crosses that your actual tension will be much less than your reference tension .

If you have that much of a tension deficit in your crosses it will distort and shorten the frame.

drakulie 07-26-2012 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10ismom (Post 6753766)

Drak....what do you think will create more pocketing and more spin friendly..... either to lower tension in main poly only or lower in both main and cross?


If you want more spin and better ball pocketing, put the nxt in the mains, and poly in the crosses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nglaser (Post 6754235)
I always string the crosses 2 to 4 #'s less than the mains even when using the same strings in both, so do a lot of other people. You do this to equalize the tension across the string bed. Are yo saying you string a poly at the same tension you string a multi?? If so you are in the minority.

I strung over 5000 frames last year, and have already strung over 3000 this year, which includes stringing at pro tournaments. I sincerely doubt I'm in the minority. Majority of players from pro to weekend warriors pick a reference tension and stick to it (mains and crosses).

Funny thing is, that when someone wants a differing tension (mains vs crosses, or vice versa) and I ask them what they are trying to accomplish by doing this, they don't have a clue, and simply state, someone told them to string like this and they have stuck to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKfan1 (Post 6754595)
I don't think I've seen people stringing mains tighter. It's always crosses 1-3 lbs tighter, because there is so much more friction pulling tension on the crosses that your actual tension will be much less than your reference tension .

If you have that much of a tension deficit in your crosses it will distort and shorten the frame.

From my experience, europeans, when they string with different tensions, typically string the mains 1-2 kg tighter than crosses.

Remember, the longest strings in the frame are the mains, which would make more sense doing it this way, if one wants to make the string bed more "proportional".

Clintspin 07-26-2012 06:37 PM

Drakulie, I am very skeptical if you are saying the pros you have strung for are stringing the mains and crosses the same tension even if they are using a hybrid. I have seen numerous web pages and threads on this board showing a great deal of variety in string tensions between mains and crosses. There is plenty of information showing Roger Federer's tensions.

Tim Straw just had an article in, I believe, RSI magazine in which he states you should string poly 20lbs below the tension you were used to stringing your multi. He says it twice for impact. I think 20lbs is a little much but it does lead to questions as to what tensions to use in a hybrid string job. If you strung you multi over the years at 60lbs and now decide you are going to try a poly/multi hybrid, are you going to string the poly in the mains at 40lbs (as Tim suggests) and the multi at 60lbs like normal. I don't think so but you are not going to string them both at 60lbs as you suggest.

There are many reasons why people use different tensions between mains and crosses. They do it for spin, feel, not to distort the racquet, power, control and so on.

drakulie 07-26-2012 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clintspin (Post 6754695)
Drakulie, I am very skeptical if you are saying the pros you have strung for are stringing the mains and crosses the same tension even if they are using a hybrid.

You need to keep things in perspective and remember that "pros" means number 1 to 1000. Not just the top ten or twenty.

But yes, I would say most pros, even when requesting 4 knots (two piece) or with hybrids typically string them the same tension.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clintspin (Post 6754695)
I have seen numerous web pages and threads on this board showing a great deal of variety in string tensions between mains and crosses. There is plenty of information showing Roger Federer's tensions.

Correct. For instance, Tipsarevic, whom I strung for exclusively at Delray last year requested two knots (one piece), and 26kg mains 25 kg crosses. On the flip side, Andreev, requested 4 knots, and 24 kg (mains and crosses with same string, BBO). He also strung 24/22 kg.

But here are some other pros:

Donald Young, Solinco 63 lbs (one piece).
Jack Sock, Pro Hurricane Tour 38 lbs (two piece).
DelPotro, Alu Power, 56 lbs (one piece).
Marty Fish, Gut Mains, Timo crosses, 55lbs. (pre stretched both gut and timo)
kei Nishikori, Alu Rough mains 50, gut crosses 52. also 51/53.
Sam Querrey, one piece 60 and also 62 lbs.
Ryan Harrison, Pro Hurricane Tour Mains 56, Gut Crosses 60.
Wayne Odesnik, BBO two piece 50 lbs. (now twisted razor)
Kim Klijsters, gut 30kg
Jim Courier, gosen mains/alu power crosses, 60 lbs.
Dominic Thiem, IsoSpeed, two piece 26kg
etc,
etc,
etc.

As you could see, from my experience, which also includes futures and challengers, and nationals, most players just provide one tension, regardless of one or two piece, or if they are even hybriding.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Clintspin (Post 6754695)
Tim Straw just had an article in, I believe, RSI magazine in which he states you should string poly 20lbs below the tension you were used to stringing your multi.

I know Tim very well and respect him a whole lot. He does a fantastic job stringing, teaching all about stringing, getting the word out, and making the stringing profession more recognized in the tennis community as a whole to make it more respectable. His symposium, which I have attended and was planning to attend again this year, but due to stringing at the national ATA and then Cincy Masters will not be able to attend, is in a simple description, Fantastic.

That said, I completely disagree with him. For example, what if someone strings their frame with regular synthetic at 35lbs? Are we to now string their frame at 15 lbs with a poly? I don't think so.

Tim is a big advocate of stringing low, especially with poly, and pushes proprotional stringing a lot. If that works for his clients, great. But make no mistake, it doesn't make it "law", nor has their been any evidence to suggest it will be the end all be all for every player. If this were the case, every pro would be stringing in the 30's or with one tension in the mains and another in the crosses, which they clearly aren't.

monkey-ranch 07-26-2012 07:20 PM

The master has spoken!

drakulie 07-26-2012 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkey-ranch (Post 6754774)
The master has spoken!

monkey, how are you?? I was going to call you but haven't had a chance. Priority One contacted me to ask if I would join them at Cincy this year. I'm psyched!!!

Also, don't forget about the miami challenger next year. I already have your space booked. You have to join me. We are going to have FUN, fun fun!!!

monkey-ranch 07-26-2012 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakulie (Post 6754782)
monkey, how are you?? I was going to call you but haven't had a chance. Priority One contacted me to ask if I would join them at Cincy this year. I'm psyched!!!

Also, don't forget about the miami challenger next year. I already have your space booked. You have to join me. We are going to have FUN, fun fun!!!

All good over here Drak! You lucky boy stringing on Cincy! I would sell my soul for a gig there! Count me in on Miami!

Clintspin 07-27-2012 03:33 AM

Drakulie you did not address the issue of tension in hybrids. Your first post in this thread suggests that there is no reason for having different tensions in the mains and crosses when stringing a poly/multi or nylon combination.

Are you suggesting that a poly main/cross and a multi or nylon main/cross hybrid should have the same tension. If so that goes against everything that we hear from the experts and the string manufactures. We see a wide variety of tensions mixes if the links below are true.

http://www.tenniszoo.com/archived-ne...s-and-tensions

http://www.stringforum.net/board/showthread.php?t=1132

Xonemains 07-27-2012 04:34 AM

I think drak is saying that most people who ask for different tension for the mains/crosses don't know why they are doing so.

But there is merit in doing so if you know what you are doing or why.

A person of drak's calibre, knows alot more about strings and stringing than just about anybody on these boards.

Clintspin 07-27-2012 04:40 AM

So Xonemains, you are saying go with Drakulie's suggestion to string mains and crosses the same and ignore the string manufacturer's instructions to string poly 10-15% lower? Or are you saying to string your poly the same as your multi? If I string my racquet with VS Gut mains at 60lbs should I string my poly crosses at 60lbs also? That's what is being said in this thread and it's complete nonsense.

jman32 07-27-2012 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakulie (Post 6753551)
What are you trying to hope to achieve by changing tensions in mains vs crosses?

Poly is going to lose tension much faster than a multi anyway, so why drop the reference tension?

Hi Drak,

i had a similar question. my preferred setup is Alu power @ 47 pounds CP full bed in a prestige pro prostock: 12.4oz 355 SW. i hit hard (for a 4.0/4.5) with a good amount of spin (mostly top, some BH slice) and will flatten out depending on the ball. i am a winner from any spot kind of guy (for which i am trying to control) directional and depth control is very important to me on groundies as well as flat serves.

i am considering putting syn gut in crosses to:
to soften the feel
be easier on my arm
improving amount of time i can play with a string job
save some money

will hybriding achieve my goals? will a hybrid lose the direction and depth control mentioned above?

I am am not sure what a good tension would be on the crosses. conventional wisdom says 45-47 pounds, will this give too much power. i was thinking to go higher in the crosses, say in the 50-52 pound range?

what tension would you suggest in this scenario?

i have OG sheep, do you have a suggested syn gut for this situation? pref not too expensive

thanks for your help and experience.

GlenK 07-27-2012 06:53 AM

One of my goals on determining cross/main tension differential is racquet distortion. Measure your racquet dimensions after you cut out the old strings and BEFORE you mount the racquet on the stringer. Then measure the dimensions again after you complete the string job and remove the racquet from the stringer.

How much distortion are you getting? On my racquet a 2lb difference results in virtually no racquet distortion. The less distortion, the better my stick seems to play...

JT_2eighty 07-27-2012 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clintspin (Post 6755358)
So Xonemains, you are saying go with Drakulie's suggestion to string mains and crosses the same and ignore the string manufacturer's instructions to string poly 10-15% lower? Or are you saying to string your poly the same as your multi? If I string my racquet with VS Gut mains at 60lbs should I string my poly crosses at 60lbs also? That's what is being said in this thread and it's complete nonsense.

The only time to typically heed the "string poly 10-15% lower" advice is for first-time users of the poly that want to string it in a full bed. Manufacturers advise such so that people don't get arm pain or get completely shocked by the stiffness of moving from full syn gut at 60lbs to full poly at 60lbs, for example. Otherwise, players can have success using poly everywhere from 22 lbs (F Volandri) to 68 lbs (J Blake). Most Recreational players though, should stay lower than 55, or they end up killing their arms, hence the "-10-15%" advice on packaging.

However, I think you are confused when it comes to hybrids, as for instance, 60 lbs gut mains, "most" people will string poly crosses at 58 or 57 (but some can also do 60, which is not at all "nonsense", while some may do 56# crosses at most, typically), but to drop it the "15%" would be crosses at *51*: and this setup, a *60lb gut main/51lb poly cross*, will possibly warp a frame, and also just play erratically. As poly also leaks tension more than other string types, it will go downhill fast.

I've seen a frame go from oval shaped to more circular from gut mains doing this, even after a 'normal' stringing of 60/56, as over enough time the crosses will have leaked up to twice as much tension than the mains, and the gut mains will be pulling strong, as gut holds tension exceptionally. Even 60/54 (using the -10% idea), would not be great advice, and you don't see many people doing this. The general consensus is to sometimes drop crosses about 1-3 pounds from mains, which will slightly alter the shape of the sweetspot as compared to crosses the same or stiffer than mains.

Stiffer frames may not warp or anything, but the playability is going to be compromised the more space you create between mains and crosses. I've tried it before stringing mains at 60 and crosses in the 40s... worst idea ever.

Here's more pro data:
Djokovic, Novak
Head Youtek Speed Pro
Wilson Natural/Luxilon Alu Power 1.25
61/59
Western & Southern Financial Group Masters 2009

Federer, Roger
Wilson K Six.One Tour 90
Wilson Natural/Luxilon Alu Rough 1.25
50/47
Western & Southern Financial Group Masters 2009

Murray, Andy
Head Youtek Radical
Luxilon Alu Power 1.25/Babolat VS
60/60
Australian Open 2010

Volandri, Filippo
Head
Luxilon poly
10.5/10.5 (23 pounds)
Roland Garros 2009

Blake, James
Dunlop 200G
Luxilon Alu Power 1.25
68/68
BNP Paribas Open 2011

Clintspin 07-27-2012 07:55 AM

GlenK is dead on. Distortion is to be avoided at all costs.

Xonemains 07-27-2012 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clintspin (Post 6755358)
So Xonemains, you are saying go with Drakulie's suggestion to string mains and crosses the same and ignore the string manufacturer's instructions to string poly 10-15% lower? Or are you saying to string your poly the same as your multi? If I string my racquet with VS Gut mains at 60lbs should I string my poly crosses at 60lbs also? That's what is being said in this thread and it's complete nonsense.

Hi Clintspin,

You didn't read my post right. I never said do exactly what drak says.

You can do whatever you want with tension, but I will say this.

Do not go more than 4 lbs difference in tension in between mains and crosses. You will wrap the frame over time.

So in your case, I would not go under 56lbs for crosses or over 64lbs.

Read my sig, don't use the same tension either:)

Good luck with it.


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