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-   -   Is There Forgiveness At The Slams? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=434562)

TennisBatman 08-01-2012 09:36 PM

Is There Forgiveness At The Slams?
 
Is there forgiveness by Djokovic toward Federer, in his losses to Federer at 2007 US Open and 2011 French Open?

Is there forgiveness by Federer toward Nadal, in his losses to Nadal at 2008 Wimbledon and 2009 Australian Open?

Is there forgiveness by Nadal toward Djokovic, in his losses to Djokovic at 2011 Wimbledon and 2011 US Open?

This era is very well-known for appearing to have a friendly atmosphere between the very top players, but how far does the friendship penetrate into the deep recesses of those players' minds?

Which feeling is stronger, being a fellow rival at the top of tennis, or being cursed with a loss that should have been a win?

psYcon 08-01-2012 09:39 PM

are you kidding me? when its one person vs the othe across the net theres no friendship. its on

TennisBatman 08-01-2012 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psYcon (Post 6770172)
are you kidding me? when its one person vs the othe across the net theres no friendship. its on

No, I'm serious.

For example, when Federer plays, he shows very little anger even against his top rivals.

Djokovic, on the other hand, is quite the opposite. He will take every chance he can to bring out his emotion against Nadal or Federer.

Of course, these statements are made by observation alone.

Sri 08-01-2012 10:06 PM

Nadal is fake humble. Djokovic is genuinely humble. Federer doesn't care, he has all the records Noledal can dream of.

kishnabe 08-01-2012 10:14 PM

It not the 60s when you can get drunk and have a laugh while not caring about ranking since it does not exist.

Right now the sport is money oriented....there is not much comaradie.....just professionalism to the extreme.

They would sell friendship if it meant more money and exposure to media.

TennisBatman 08-02-2012 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kishnabe (Post 6770256)
It not the 60s when you can get drunk and have a laugh while not caring about ranking since it does not exist.

Right now the sport is money oriented....there is not much comaradie.....just professionalism to the extreme.

They would sell friendship if it meant more money and exposure to media.

But that is what happened when Nadal and Federer made a video about their exhibition match a few years ago.

I think they developed a friendship from 2006 to 2008, where either Nadal and Federer either won on their favored surfaces, or the matches were really close (even though Nadal won in 2008 Wimbledon, the score was very close).

It seems, though, that the friendship was complicated in 2009 Australian Open when Federer "should have" won, but lost. Federer seems to have forgiven Nadal for that loss, and I believe the forgiveness was largely due to Nadal's injury in 2009. By the time it was 2010, they were complete friends again.

Go forward 2 years to 2011, when Nadal and Djokovic were playing their high-profile matches against each other. It was a different story, because the moment Djokovic wins against Nadal at Rome in straight sets, they are suddenly enemies to a much higher degree, as it seems from watching.

When the battle continued at Wimbledon, Djokovic's streak continued as well as Nadal's losses against him.

I thought that Rafa has probably not yet forgiven Djokovic for those losses.

MariaRafael 08-02-2012 06:27 AM

Nadal says: "We can be friends 5 minutes before the match, and 5 minutes after it. But during the match we are rivals".

Having said that, he never mentioned Federer as his friend. He described their relations as "we are on very good terms, but we are not friends". Rafa's friends in tennis are Carlos Moya, Juan Monaco, Feliciano Lopez, David Nalbandyan, Marc Lopez. He's been close with Andy Murray and Richard Gasquet since they were 13-year old kids.

Rafa was terribly unhappy when he lost 2007 Wimbledon to Federer. Still says that it was his most painful loss. But I don't think that he had a grudge against Federer. First of all, he's been always sure that Federer is a better grass player, secondly, respect to Federer has been beaten into his head to such and extent, that there's no way it can be taken out considering that Uncle Toni is a Federer fan :oops:

Neither did Federer ever claim to be friends with Nadal. I don't know much about Federer, so can only assume that lost 2008 Wimbledon was a heavy blow for him. But it was his own prophecy though: when he saw absolutely shattered Rafa after 2007 final he said during the award ceremony: "this match was nearly equal, and we're two Wimbledon champions". Hence, probably no grudge against Rafa. Generally, I don't think that Federer is malicious. When Rafa replaced him as World No.1, he could've said nothing about it, but he responded with "I'm glad that it's Rafa, he is a deserving World No.1".

Federer never liked Djokovic because of his playing possum strategy and "when I'm down I'll take a medical break/ toilet break/lunch break and destroy your momentum" approach, called him a Joke as far back as 2006. He also commented Djokovic's multiple retirements saying that "if he can't stand environmental conditions, he should retire on permanent basis".

Djokovic knew all these nice little things, but kept his trap shut till 2008, when his excellent mommy volunteered with "le roi est mort".

To cut a long story short, there's no love lost between these two.

Rafa seemed to like Djokovic before his true nature was fully displayed in 2011 celebrations. Now Djokovic pretends to be a friend (especially after 3 beatings received this year), but Rafa is wisely keeping at arm's length.

TennisBatman 08-02-2012 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariaRafael (Post 6771044)
Nadal says: "We can be friends 5 minutes before the match, and 5 minutes after it. But during the match we are rivals".

Having said that, he never mentioned Federer as his friend. He described their relations as "we are on very good terms, but we are not friends". Rafa's friends in tennis are Carlos Moya, Juan Monaco, Feliciano Lopez, David Nalbandyan, Marc Lopez. He's been close with Andy Murray and Richard Gasquet since they were 13-year old kids.

Perhaps you're right there, but I just got the impression, through body language, that Nadal and Federer act as though they are friends.

I'd point out, though, it's a well known fact that Murray and Nadal often play Playstation games with each other (even at slams). Perhaps this friendship has hindered Murray's performance against Nadal in the last few years (2008 US Open seems like ages ago now...).

Quote:

Rafa was terribly unhappy when he lost 2007 Wimbledon to Federer. Still says that it was his most painful loss. But I don't think that he had a grudge against Federer. First of all, he's been always sure that Federer is a better grass player, secondly, respect to Federer has been beaten into his head to such and extent, that there's no way it can be taken out considering that Uncle Toni is a Federer fan :oops:

Neither did Federer ever claim to be friends with Nadal. I don't know much about Federer, so can only assume that lost 2008 Wimbledon was a heavy blow for him. But it was his own prophecy though: when he saw absolutely shattered Rafa after 2007 final he said during the award ceremony: "this match was nearly equal, and we're two Wimbledon champions". Hence, probably no grudge against Rafa. Generally, I don't think that Federer is malicious. When Rafa replaced him as World No.1, he could've said nothing about it, but he responded with "I'm glad that it's Rafa, he is a deserving World No.1".
Good insight there. I think Federer is the most self-controlled, both in his habits and his words to the media. He also knows how to give credit and make sure the other guy hears it.


Quote:

Federer never liked Djokovic because of his playing possum strategy and "when I'm down I'll take a medical break/ toilet break/lunch break and destroy your momentum" approach, called him a Joke as far back as 2006. He also commented Djokovic's multiple retirements saying that "if he can't stand environmental conditions, he should retire on permanent basis".

Djokovic knew all these nice little things, but kept his trap shut till 2008, when his excellent mommy volunteered with "le roi est mort".

To cut a long story short, there's no love lost between these two.
I agree. Not sure what else to say here, unless the next big match between the two reveals something else...

Quote:

Rafa seemed to like Djokovic before his true nature was fully displayed in 2011 celebrations. Now Djokovic pretends to be a friend (especially after 3 beatings received this year), but Rafa is wisely keeping at arm's length.
I agree to some extent. The handshake at 2012 AO showed the true status of their relationship. Nadal went forward to shake the umpire's hand before Djokovic, and he walked over to Djokovic's side for a very brief handshake.

However, I think that Nadal has forgiven him after 2012 AO, solely because he made it to the 5th set against him.

It will be really interesting to see how the attitude of these two players develops from here. At one moment, it seems friendly, but at another moment it seems like pure hate.

scineram 08-02-2012 09:52 AM

What is there to forgive?

TennisBatman 08-02-2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scineram (Post 6771713)
What is there to forgive?

A legitimate question that deserves a legitimate answer...

I think in tennis, there is clearly a potential for both anger and forgiveness.

I guess both can roughly be categorized into "professional" anger/forgiveness and "personal" anger/forgiveness.

For example, between Federer and Nadal, there was a slight phase of personal anger/forgiveness in 2006, when Federer called Nadal's game "one-dimensional", and Nadal said that Federer "needs to learn how to lose". All of that disappeared after they swapped victories at the 2006 Wimbledon and French Open.

Jump ahead to 2009 AO, and we saw a slight phase of professional anger/forgiveness, that started once Nadal won the 2009 AO title, but ended once Federer won both French Open and Wimbledon in 2009, both times avoiding Nadal completely.

On the other hand, in 2011 Nadal and Djokovic experienced both professional and personal anger against each other. After 2012 AO, the professsional anger faded away (partly thanks to Nadal's 2012 FO win), but the personal anger perhaps remained to some extent...


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