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-   -   f**d up my forehand with the tucked elbow (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=435232)

georgeslo 08-06-2012 11:52 PM

f**d up my forehand with the tucked elbow
 
Hi:

Hope you can provide me with some advice concerning my issue.

Basically, after watching too much instructional videos, to try to add a little something to my otherwise solid forehand, i completely messed up my forehand.

My goal was to to improve racket head speed. One of the videos (coach kyrill on youtube) suggested tucking in the elbow (basically "glueing it" to my torso) to get the feel of the "snap" on the forehand. Later you of course release your elbow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TrKHZzetpc


Practiced it, and practiced it some more and stuck with it for a while. But now what's happening is that even in normal points i keep the elbow very close to my body and the racket head drop is insane. At the point of contact my 12 o clock racket head point is almost aiming at the ground, resulting in a very extreme low to high swingpath. It almost feels like my wrist stays bent for too long.

I will at least try to post a picture of my contact point to get a better understanding of what i'm talking about.

Funbun 08-07-2012 03:04 AM

You get more racquet head speed by rotating your body faster. Gluing your elbow to your body is merely a workaround solution. In reality, it gets you less power.

When you say "my wrist stays bent for too long", what do you mean? It's normal to have a wide variety of degrees of either flexion or extension on the takeback. It really depends on your grip and swing style.



And no, don't care about where your racquet tip is. That's normal.

arche3 08-07-2012 03:09 AM

Practice the drop feed without tucked elbow? This is very funny :-)
Sorry it happened to you though.

Orion3 08-07-2012 03:25 AM

A couple of months back, I played someone with a very similar forehand. Very fast and kicked off the ground like a mule.

Stikes me as you need great timing to pull it off, but if you do...

If your racquet face is facing the ground at impact, something is wrong. It needs to facing the net, otherwise it will only ever go into the ground. Close to parallel with a low to high swing path will add topspin.

Not sure if I'm reading your description right, but if I am, it sounds like you are either pronating your wrist too early or else you are hitting too far in front of your body. If it is the latter, you will also have problems hitting any forehand other than cross court or straight.

The drill itself is just that...a drill. Just to get you to feel the racquet snapping through. Sounds like you have done it soo much that you've incorporated the whole move into your swing - and forgot it was only designed to help you 'feel'.

Far be it from me to say if the drill is a good or bad one. What I would say is that taken in isolation, it could lead to a very armsy swing. You still need to rotate your core and use your legs. He does - but he doesn't say it.

georgeslo 08-07-2012 03:36 AM

@arche: i don't find it one bit amusing :-?

@others

thanks for the pics. I almost feel like i have an issue with "ulnar deviation", so im basically creating not an "L" between my body and my racket, but almost a "W".

Btw, i'm using a semi-western on my forehand.

My racket face is not facing the ground at time of impact though, my 10-12 o'clock position of the grommet however is.

I really need to post a pic.

Yes my forehand does provide massive spin, but poor depth and very little left to right control.

arche3 08-07-2012 03:46 AM

So does it essentially look like your a penguin? :D

Again I feel for you. But now i can't get the image of a penguin playing tennis out of my head.

georgeslo 08-07-2012 04:06 AM

PENGUIN STYLE :)


georgeslo 08-07-2012 04:10 AM

Managed to get a half decent quality clip of my forehand (need help) :)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xso4w2_forehand2_sport

syke 08-07-2012 04:39 AM

There are some that hit great with it, but it still looks awkward to me. The swing looks too contrived... I don't fancy having a bent elbow at contact.

Try getting the feel of having your arm thrown forward and around as you hit thru the ball... If you look closely how Nadal hits his FH, his arm barely dictate the movement and direction of the swing. His arm looks as though it's limp as it's flung around his body.

Jay_The_Nomad 08-07-2012 04:52 AM

Is that your regular forehand? Looks to me you're hitting late. Can you try attacking the ball further out in front of you? If you do so you will find an increase in your depth and power, pace and spin.

Right now it looks like the ball skidded and you got jammed.

If your contact point is further out in front of you, you will not hit with your arms tucked in. Biomechanically impossible.

Orion3 08-07-2012 04:53 AM

Just watched both videos.

If you are trying to copy what the coach was doing there is one significant difference between what he does and what you do...weight transfer.

Your weight seems to stay on the back foot. You have a slight jump and move the front foot but the weight seems to stay exactly where it was from start to finish. My guess is that the racquet head speed is being transferred into spin and not into pace - high spinning and short.

Jay_The_Nomad 08-07-2012 04:59 AM

Delete cc. FCC.

georgeslo 08-07-2012 05:13 AM

Yes, tat's how i regularly hit unfortunately.

So ok, weight transfer forward and hiting more in front of me (earlier).

But with the same swingpath? Or will it change as a result of the above?

Those are the first two things i'll try.

Jay_The_Nomad 08-07-2012 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeslo (Post 6788812)
Yes, tat's how i regularly hit unfortunately.

So ok, weight transfer forward and hiting more in front of me (earlier).

But with the same swingpath? Or will it change as a result of the above?

Those are the first two things i'll try.

I don't think the swing path should change. Even with a contact point further out, you should still have the option of the vicious upward brush or the flat drive swing path.

Power Player 08-07-2012 05:56 AM

You are arming the ball. The clue is in your picture. Your offhand is not pulling across your body because it should already be across on contact. So you are late, arming the ball and not getting your weight back into the court. All things most of us have dealt with and still deal with at times.

I'd forget about your right arm and focus on the footwork and weight transfer. The right hand is the least important part of what you should fix IMO.

Limpinhitter 08-07-2012 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeslo (Post 6788506)
Hi:

Hope you can provide me with some advice concerning my issue.

Basically, after watching too much instructional videos, to try to add a little something to my otherwise solid forehand, i completely messed up my forehand.

My goal was to to improve racket head speed. One of the videos (coach kyrill on youtube) suggested tucking in the elbow (basically "glueing it" to my torso) to get the feel of the "snap" on the forehand. Later you of course release your elbow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TrKHZzetpc


Practiced it, and practiced it some more and stuck with it for a while. But now what's happening is that even in normal points i keep the elbow very close to my body and the racket head drop is insane. At the point of contact my 12 o clock racket head point is almost aiming at the ground, resulting in a very extreme low to high swingpath. It almost feels like my wrist stays bent for too long.

I will at least try to post a picture of my contact point to get a better understanding of what i'm talking about.

I'm not sure what you mean by "tucked elbow." Keeping your elbow in and forward during your unit turn back and forth, to contact, is one of several elements of a modern forehand. If the other elements are missing, then you can't measure how well this element, in isolation, is working for you.

The modern forehand is generated with upper body rotation and suppination/pronation of the arm, not independent arm movement. The young girl in this video has excellent execution of what I mean by keeping the elbow in and forward, especially the drill she does at about :22 seconds, and the shadow swings she does at 4:18.

You would do well to emulate her swing. It's a very simple swing. Hope this helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwyL...LMIDCyV3x4-c&t

Power Player 08-07-2012 07:32 AM

I like that forehand a lot. It is real easy to control a swing like that.

corbind 08-07-2012 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter (Post 6788996)

I have seen his teacher in a video once before and think he's really good at his job.

toly 08-07-2012 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeslo (Post 6788506)
Hi:

Hope you can provide me with some advice concerning my issue.

Basically, after watching too much instructional videos, to try to add a little something to my otherwise solid forehand, i completely messed up my forehand.

My goal was to to improve racket head speed. One of the videos (coach kyrill on youtube) suggested tucking in the elbow (basically "glueing it" to my torso) to get the feel of the "snap" on the forehand. Later you of course release your elbow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TrKHZzetpc

Practiced it, and practiced it some more and stuck with it for a while. But now what's happening is that even in normal points i keep the elbow very close to my body and the racket head drop is insane. At the point of contact my 12 o clock racket head point is almost aiming at the ground, resulting in a very extreme low to high swingpath. It almost feels like my wrist stays bent for too long.

I will at least try to post a picture of my contact point to get a better understanding of what i'm talking about.

I use Kyril technique FH a lot especially when I’m late.

You should clearly understand what every part of your body has to do.

To create power (translational ball’s speed) Kyril applys:
1. Body rotation - contributes around 20% of power.
2. Internal shoulder rotation - 40%.
3. Wrist snap - 40%. In case of SW grip that would be wrist deviation from wrist radial to wrist ulnar.

To create topspin Kyril utilizes forearm pronation.

The main idea is that we must present (around impact) the racquet’s long axis in horizontal orientation. Otherwise, we practically cannot use the above steps 1, 2, and 3 effectively and forearm pronation too.

The picture below demonstrates wrong and right racquet orientation around impact.



Never jump if you get low ball, but bend your knees, see please famous Radwanska squat.

Chas Tennis 08-07-2012 10:21 AM

Videos of elbows tucked in for representative pro forehands?
 
Videos such as this show the elbow position and how close it is to the body for representative forehands.

Federer forehand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9sJryQg0M&feature=plcp

Could someone find videos of better pro forehands not just an incidental still?

I believe that Tsonga has a more tucked in elbow on average.

We have been discussing the same 'elbow tucked in' issue on

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=434524&page=2

See reply #46 and earlier ones by Limpinhitter.

You could not pay me to hit a ball with the elbow angle shown by the OP, Reply #7. I would be worried about Golfer's Elbow injury. I'm not qualified to know how injuries are caused.


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