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-   -   How much are you running and dieting? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=435478)

Power Player 08-09-2012 06:56 AM

How much are you running and dieting?
 
I have read some threads on here where people are getting winded after 1 set in the major heat and humidity. I have the same issue, combined with sweating a ton. Even though a lot of it is related to the elements, I know I can be in better shape.

I have analyzed multiple things. I am currently at around 12-14% (calipher) body fat which is nice, but I have a lot of muscle and am built like a sprinter (which I was for a while). So I plan to lean down a little more and lose 8-10 pounds.

So the first thing I am doing is 1-2 weeks of low carbing. I always do this when I start a diet. For me, low carbing is not too difficult as it is mainly replacing oatmeal as my first meal with eggs. I don't think low carb is a healthy long term diet, but I do believe in it as a way to start things off.

The rest of my meals are simple..salad with grilled chicken and bleu cheese dressing, tuna fish, fruits..lots of water.

Long term I plan on eating salad a lot more often as I find it the easiest way to eat healthy and it never really gets old for me.

So I have been doing this for a few days and have noticed more energy to exercise instead of the opposite. In the long run, I am going to need that oatmeal before I go play tennis, but short term this is the 2 week plan. Before I go hit, I eat beef jerky for some no carb "fuel".

As for workouts : every other day I am on a pushup regime. I do this to replace benchpress which I believe can really irritate the shoulder for tennis if you have been a gym rat for years such as myself. I do 3 sets in 2 minutes and go 30-18-10 (reps). I use normal, wide and close hand positions and spread these out throughout the day.

In the gym, I am focusing on core and pulls. deadlifts (not real heavy ones anymore), pulldowns, ab rotation, Bicycles (abs). Then a shoulder day with some triceps thrown in.

I also got a jump rope and want to use that for 20 minutes every few days.

The final change up, and this could be the big one, is running. I was not running at all..I mean ever, besides tennis. So I am training for a 5k, which is not that hard. I can run 2.5 miles or so without stopping in 23 minutes so far, and to me that is not super great, but not bad considering my only running fitness is tennis.

I definitely feel it in my muscles in a different way from running. Calves and thighs burn differently. To me it is a good sign that this is something I need to do. I want to run a 5k in september, so I plan to run 3-5 times a week and play tennis a little less (2-3 times a week).

Anyway, my logic is all of this should lean me down more, get my on court fitness up, and hopefully reduce how much I am sweating as well. Feel free to post your experiences.

SlapShot 08-09-2012 07:59 AM

I've been training for a 10 mile race in October, and had never been a distance runner before.

Diet-wise, I try to eat as close to balanced as I can. I'm guilty of liking bread and pasta a bit much, but I try to eat at least one salad per day, either for lunch or dinner, along with taking in an adequate amount of protein.

With regard to the running, I am currently on a rest week, but my training weeks are 4-5 days of runs. Mondays, I run a 5K, and I'm trying to push my pace for those - my current PR is around the 25 minute mark, and I'm hoping to do a sub-24 by the time it gets cold here. Wednesdays are variable between 4 and 6 miles, and I focus on keeping a steady pace that I can maintain for that distance. Thursday is speed work, either a 30 minute tempo run or 800 meter intervals, Friday is variable between 2 and 4 miles, and Saturday is my long run of the week (this week, it's 9 miles). Since I've been doing this routine, my endurance on the court has been much better, but I feel like my feet are heavier, so once I'm done with this race, I'll likely replace the longer running with sprints or footwork drills to make my feet get quicker again.

I limit my lifting to one day a week, and work medium weight rather than trying to push heavier due to the recommendation of my physical therapist that I focus on building functional strength rather than just putting up as much weight as I can.

This schedule doesn't leave much time for tennis, so I've been willing to sub tennis for running whenever needed. I usually only get to play 1 day a week, maybe 2 if I'm lucky. With my shoulder rehab, that's the right level to build up strength in my shoulder without overworking it.

Power Player 08-09-2012 08:13 AM

Nice..running 9 miles to me is an impossibility. I cant imagine pulling that off..lol. I have never been good at long distance running, but when I ran track I could do 5 mile runs, and run a mile without any effort. That is the best I have done.

I am running at an easy pace. Looking to do a 5k in under 30 mins for now. Everything I know about running says to start off easy or you will burn out real fast with it.

Great point about heavy feet. This is why I am mixing in jump rope, which is a key part of the process before working out.

SlapShot 08-09-2012 08:19 AM

I didn't think I would ever be able to do more than 5 or 6 to be honest. I did an 8 mile run 2 weeks ago, and was planning a 10 last Saturday but it was rained out. I've found that the key is just doing it, no excuses for skipping workouts. As a coworker who is training for a marathon says, you can't fake the miles. It really becomes mental after the first mile or two - just being willing to keep going, even if it feels like it's a crawl.

You're right about building up mileage - I am in week 6 of this training, and my mileage has increased every week up until this week, and next week it's back to the regular schedule. The most pain I've had is some mild soreness in my arches, but that's subsided with some regular stretching. So far, no knee or back pain, which is where I'd always feel it when I running less often.

Kevin T 08-09-2012 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 6793304)
I have read some threads on here where people are getting winded after 1 set in the major heat and humidity. I have the same issue, combined with sweating a ton. Even though a lot of it is related to the elements, I know I can be in better shape.

I have analyzed multiple things. I am currently at around 12-14% (calipher) body fat which is nice, but I have a lot of muscle and am built like a sprinter (which I was for a while). So I plan to lean down a little more and lose 8-10 pounds.

So the first thing I am doing is 1-2 weeks of low carbing. I always do this when I start a diet. For me, low carbing is not too difficult as it is mainly replacing oatmeal as my first meal with eggs. I don't think low carb is a healthy long term diet, but I do believe in it as a way to start things off.

The rest of my meals are simple..salad with grilled chicken and bleu cheese dressing, tuna fish, fruits..lots of water.

Long term I plan on eating salad a lot more often as I find it the easiest way to eat healthy and it never really gets old for me.

As someone with back issues, I would also highly recommend Hoka One One shoes. You'll look like a clown (like me :)) but for longer runs, I've never used a better shoe. Very stable, very light and only ~ 4-5 mm drop. My joints don't even feel like I've been on a run these days and that's saying a lot with my history. I still like race shoes/flats for sprints but the Hokas are fantastic for longer distances.

So I have been doing this for a few days and have noticed more energy to exercise instead of the opposite. In the long run, I am going to need that oatmeal before I go play tennis, but short term this is the 2 week plan. Before I go hit, I eat beef jerky for some no carb "fuel".

As for workouts : every other day I am on a pushup regime. I do this to replace benchpress which I believe can really irritate the shoulder for tennis if you have been a gym rat for years such as myself. I do 3 sets in 2 minutes and go 30-18-10 (reps). I use normal, wide and close hand positions and spread these out throughout the day.

In the gym, I am focusing on core and pulls. deadlifts (not real heavy ones anymore), pulldowns, ab rotation, Bicycles (abs). Then a shoulder day with some triceps thrown in.

I also got a jump rope and want to use that for 20 minutes every few days.

The final change up, and this could be the big one, is running. I was not running at all..I mean ever, besides tennis. So I am training for a 5k, which is not that hard. I can run 2.5 miles or so without stopping in 23 minutes so far, and to me that is not super great, but not bad considering my only running fitness is tennis.

I definitely feel it in my muscles in a different way from running. Calves and thighs burn differently. To me it is a good sign that this is something I need to do. I want to run a 5k in september, so I plan to run 3-5 times a week and play tennis a little less (2-3 times a week).

Anyway, my logic is all of this should lean me down more, get my on court fitness up, and hopefully reduce how much I am sweating as well. Feel free to post your experiences.

If you have access to squash courts, I would highly suggest it as a great cross-training tool. Some will say it messes up their tennis strokes but I regularly play squash and racquetball and have never had a problem. I ran a 10 k at ~ 8 minute/mile pace a few years back only having played squash 3-4 times/week, no running at all. It's a nice substitute for a run day.

Do you think you may be overworking your tris doing push ups q other day, along with compound lifts and a shoulder/tri day?

If you are eating tuna (particularly albacore) multiple times per week, consider other lower mercury/contaminant fish/seafood.

If you are playing tennis 3 times per week, I might not run up to 5 times per week. If you play tennis 3 days, run 3-4 days.

At least 8 hours of sleep q night.

Power Player 08-09-2012 08:25 AM

These are all great points.

I definitely need tuna alternatives.

I will give the tris a rest. I guess I am still skeptical of pushups doing so much, but they really are that good.

I think you are right 3-4 days a week is a good target for running. No squash courts here that I know of.

This whole thing was an eye opener for me as I thought I was in good shape (and I am compared to most people), but there is a level of fitness that is higher where you can do endurance sports like swimming and running, and I am currently not close to that yet.

Kevin T 08-09-2012 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 6793493)
These are all great points.

I definitely need tuna alternatives.

I will give the tris a rest. I guess I am still skeptical of pushups doing so much, but they really are that good.

I think you are right 3-4 days a week is a good target for running. No squash courts here that I know of.

This whole thing was an eye opener for me as I thought I was in good shape (and I am compared to most people), but there is a level of fitness that is higher where you can do endurance sports like swimming and running, and I am currently not close to that yet.

Forgot to post this link from Monterey Bay Aquarium, specific to the Southeast:

http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/c...heastGuide.pdf

I've used Hal Higdon's programs multiple times when training for 5 and 10 k races and they have always worked well.

http://www.halhigdon.com/

I know what you mean about endurance fitness. I absolutely stink at swimming. I'm not going to drown anytime soon but I have one of those dense body types that the good Lord didn't intend to compete in competetive swimming. It's a good cross training exercise for me but going to swim laps takes a lot of time/is a major inconvenience compared to other activities.

If you really start upping your running, I would also highly recommend Hoka One One shoes.

http://hokaoneone-na.com/

They are expensive but worth it, IMHO. I have ruptured my L4-L5 twice in the last 10 years (all good for the last 3, knock on wood). I was cleared to run on soft surfaces, keeping my mileage low but was always sore anytime I hit the 4+ mile range. I haven't had a single joint pain since purchasing these shoes early this year. You'll look like a clown (like me), but who cares. They are actually very light (<11 oz) with minimal drop (~ 5mm, I think). I still prefer racing shoes/flats for sprinting but I'm sold on Hokas for longer distances. You're pounding your joints on hard courts, best to limit the pounding from running.

SlapShot 08-09-2012 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin T (Post 6793516)
I've used Hal Higdon's programs multiple times when training for 5 and 10 k races and they have always worked well.

http://www.halhigdon.com/

That's what I based my training plan on for this 10 mile race. He also suggest a cross training day (at least for the longer mileage races). I have been cycling on Sundays to get my cross training in, plus it balances out my quads with my hammies.

r2473 08-09-2012 08:43 AM

I'll be cleared to run in a week or two. I'll probably start putting in 30-40 mile weeks following a training schedule that aims to have me run a 10K in 40 minutes (a mix of long runs, tempo runs, and track training). 6:30 pace. If things go well, I might try to run a marathon at the 3-hour mark in the spring (6:52 pace). The main goal here really is to run the 3:15 qualifying time (7:26 pace) for Boston as a 40th birthday present to myself (pretty sad, I know) and to run Boston in 2014. By April, I should for sure be able to hit tennis balls as hard as I want.

These are the training books I've always used:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Self-Coach...coached+runner

http://www.amazon.com/The-Self-Coach...ref=pd_sim_b_2

As far as shoes, if you don't know, have someone determine if you run neutral, or if you are a pronator or supinator. For me, any neutral shoe is as good as another. I aim for a 10-11 oz. shoe. These are the ones I recently bought (because they are cheap). Running warehouse has a coupon code: fb15d. Saves 15%.

http://www.runningwarehouse.com/desc...S-ADSK2M1.html

"Chi running" isn't a bad site for learning a bit about how to run and stay injury free. As far as I can gather "chi running" = midfoot striking / relaxed, tension free running (but chi runnning obviously sounds cooler):

http://www.chirunning.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UYkAB18wgs

Though losing weight is incompatible with "training style running", I would also like to lose a few pounds. I'll aim at ~2 lbs. / month. By the spring, if things go well, I can drop 15-20 lbs. My "dieting" plan is to continue to cook the recipes on these saucing sites:

http://www.morethangourmet.com/our-f...ats-for-dinner

http://www.clubsauce.com/books.html

What should you put the sauces on (if you just make a sauce)? These books are a nice way to cook meat (braising and roasting):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/039...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/All-About-Roas...d_bxgy_b_img_y

Confit is another nice method for cooking any type of meat (not just duck). Choose a cut of meat with enough fat (so if you choose to confit pork, use a butt or shoulder). You don't need to use duck fat (though its nice). Something like canola oil works fine (I know, the horror).

I do pistol squats and bicycles every other day. I'll add in upper body training when I'm cleared. When healthy, I do resistance training twice a week, though I mess around with handstand pressing, etc while watching TV if I feel like it. These parallettes are nice for L-sits, V-sits, handstand pressing / pushups, planche progressions. Rings are nice for back levers, front levers, pullups, dips, muscleups, etc.

http://www.thegymnaststore.com/parallettes.html

http://www.gymnasticbodies.com/store/equipment.html

Kevin T 08-09-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlapShot (Post 6793530)
That's what I based my training plan on for this 10 mile race. He also suggest a cross training day (at least for the longer mileage races). I have been cycling on Sundays to get my cross training in, plus it balances out my quads with my hammies.

I usually cycled or played squash or racquetball for my cross training day. Higdon's programs have never let me down. Never thought I would run that far but did a 10 miler in 2009 using his programs (and I'm not a small guy :0). Good luck in your training.

Power Player 08-09-2012 10:01 AM

Great info. If I dont play tennis I am going to try and run more tonight. I am currently using the Nike Minimals.

My legs are definitely sore today..im feeling it.

gatorbait01 08-09-2012 11:39 AM

This thread really caught my attention. I wouldnít say Iím out of shape, but I could be much more fit cardiovascularly. I will get winded early in matches even during warm-ups sometimes. I think that is mostly adrenaline and/or nerves. During night matches Iím usually fine to compete hard, but I will get out of breath during long points. The big issue I have is playing in the sun. Itís during these matches where Iím completely out of breath at the changeovers and my opponent isnít even huffing at all. I actually find that I canít even compete in the heat. Just no ability to hustle. That began to bother the heck out of me recently. Some of it is just lack of sun exposure, but Iíve learned that it also a fitness issue as the blood from your body has to move away from your muscles to your skin to cool you off. This requires a higher level of fitness.

I like to lift weights but now at 36 and a shoulder surgery it seems Iíve hit a wall where I just donít want to push myself much farther. Iíve reduced the weights somewhat and shorten the workouts to about 30 minutes. I do dead lifts, pull-ups, rows and front squats and rotator cuff work over 2 workouts. That leaves time for fitness work. Iíve been doing the HIIT type, not the aerobic type workouts after lifting weights and 1 or 2 days by itself. I will do suicides in the backyard 30 sec on, 30 sec off for twenty minutes. Other times Iíll do split squats, or burpees 30 sec on, 30 sec off. After only 4 weeks Iíve seen a big improvement which is awesome. Even during my night matches I feel much fresher and I didnít think I needed much help at night. I was wrong.

My weight is pretty much in check. When I find the need to lose weight I track my calories on dailyburn. I just make sure to keep my protein up above 130g and calories right around 2000. That seems to let me lose about 1-2 lbs per week.

Unless you like long distance aerobic work, I would consider cutting it out. After I hurt my shoulder I found this guy online, Eric Cressey. Heís a strength coach that works with athletes, mostly baseball players. Anyways he seems to think the repetitive motions of aerobic work can lead to overuse injuries. In addition he feels anaerobic work will condition the aerobic part even better.

There is a million theories on how to get fit and how to work out. Iíve decided to just latch on to this guy. He has a blog and some great articles on T-nation.

Power Player 08-09-2012 12:14 PM

Good points. I just really want to do more than just tennis. 5ks are a culture shock for me in terms of getting up way too early on a weekend and running a fairly long distance. That is out of my comfort zone which is a good thing. I also believe I will lose weight from this. I know a lot of people who lost weight simply from running and nothing else.

I do like HIIT and I do it via jump rope before I lift.

aced_Tezuka 08-09-2012 01:19 PM

I'm not much of a runner so I just jump rope. But I've been such a lazy *** these past few months and I'm trying to get in shape again. I've resumed my diet this month (stopped trying mid june and most of july) and I'm starting to lose a few pounds again. (yeepee) For fitness I'm thinking of running a mile in the early morning and another one at sunset. I don't have access to a gym and have a couple of dumbells so I do squats, curls, shrugs, dips, and rows.

My goal weight is 130-ish and I'm 165 right now. With proper diet and exercise I think I can achieve that goal by ATLEAST next summer.

bad_call 08-09-2012 01:50 PM

been slacking here and gained a few more pounds. played today and sweated so much that you'd think my name was Isner. didn't help that i was up late visiting and drinking beer. :rolleyes:

played surprisingly decent tho considering temps are mid 90s and humidity is ridiculous.

Power Player 08-09-2012 01:53 PM

I dont know if a mile is going to do much. I'd committ to 2-3 at a time so you can do 20-30 minutes of cardio at a time.

Really being in great shape is different than being able to play tennis for a couple hours.

and yeah Bc, this humidity sucks real bad.

Boricua 08-09-2012 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 6793304)
I have read some threads on here where people are getting winded after 1 set in the major heat and humidity. I have the same issue, combined with sweating a ton. Even though a lot of it is related to the elements, I know I can be in better shape.

I have analyzed multiple things. I am currently at around 12-14% (calipher) body fat which is nice, but I have a lot of muscle and am built like a sprinter (which I was for a while). So I plan to lean down a little more and lose 8-10 pounds.

So the first thing I am doing is 1-2 weeks of low carbing. I always do this when I start a diet. For me, low carbing is not too difficult as it is mainly replacing oatmeal as my first meal with eggs. I don't think low carb is a healthy long term diet, but I do believe in it as a way to start things off.

The rest of my meals are simple..salad with grilled chicken and bleu cheese dressing, tuna fish, fruits..lots of water.

Long term I plan on eating salad a lot more often as I find it the easiest way to eat healthy and it never really gets old for me.

So I have been doing this for a few days and have noticed more energy to exercise instead of the opposite. In the long run, I am going to need that oatmeal before I go play tennis, but short term this is the 2 week plan. Before I go hit, I eat beef jerky for some no carb "fuel".

As for workouts : every other day I am on a pushup regime. I do this to replace benchpress which I believe can really irritate the shoulder for tennis if you have been a gym rat for years such as myself. I do 3 sets in 2 minutes and go 30-18-10 (reps). I use normal, wide and close hand positions and spread these out throughout the day.

In the gym, I am focusing on core and pulls. deadlifts (not real heavy ones anymore), pulldowns, ab rotation, Bicycles (abs). Then a shoulder day with some triceps thrown in.

I also got a jump rope and want to use that for 20 minutes every few days.

The final change up, and this could be the big one, is running. I was not running at all..I mean ever, besides tennis. So I am training for a 5k, which is not that hard. I can run 2.5 miles or so without stopping in 23 minutes so far, and to me that is not super great, but not bad considering my only running fitness is tennis.

I definitely feel it in my muscles in a different way from running. Calves and thighs burn differently. To me it is a good sign that this is something I need to do. I want to run a 5k in september, so I plan to run 3-5 times a week and play tennis a little less (2-3 times a week).

Anyway, my logic is all of this should lean me down more, get my on court fitness up, and hopefully reduce how much I am sweating as well. Feel free to post your experiences.

I suggest you run in a good track, sand or nice, even grass. Running in cement, public streets is a gamble, could damage your knees, ankles and low back. Also, buy good running shoes, Mizuno are great.

Boricua 08-09-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 6793493)
These are all great points.

I definitely need tuna alternatives.

I will give the tris a rest. I guess I am still skeptical of pushups doing so much, but they really are that good.

I think you are right 3-4 days a week is a good target for running. No squash courts here that I know of.

This whole thing was an eye opener for me as I thought I was in good shape (and I am compared to most people), but there is a level of fitness that is higher where you can do endurance sports like swimming and running, and I am currently not close to that yet.

Costco sell good salmon both individual and multipacks.

bad_call 08-09-2012 02:05 PM

PP - i kept thinking about calling for the towel at almost every point. sweat was continuously running down the sunglasses lens blurring the vision. felt like scuba diving with leaky goggles (don't quite form to my head). which reminds me to get a better fitting one.

Boricua 08-09-2012 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bad_call (Post 6794501)
PP - i kept thinking about calling for the towel at almost every point. sweat was continuously running down the sunglasses lens blurring the vision. felt like scuba diving with leaky goggles (don't quite form to my head). which reminds me to get a better fitting one.

Beach volleball players use Oakley shades, seem to fit pretty well. Samantha Stosur and Clement uses them.


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