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-   -   Ettiquette on high balls (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=435487)

Chillaxer 08-09-2012 07:50 AM

Ettiquette on high balls
 
The percentage of point you can will on high balls and lobs is higher than people might think. I just wonder what the rules, spoken/unspoken are. Is it just not done to hit loads of high balls, rude? Can an umpire intervene? What about quantity of drop shots?

Pironkova's Forehand 08-09-2012 08:03 AM

My eyesight is pretty poor so the more high balls which are played at me, the more likely I am to shank one into the net or a mile long. I hate them, personally. Very defensive, very frustrating but tactically astute against players like me.

TaihtDuhShaat 08-09-2012 08:33 AM

Why no high ball rallies in pro tennis? I imagine any pro could flatten out any high ball for a winner or get a short ball out of it.

Chillaxer 08-09-2012 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaihtDuhShaat (Post 6793513)
Why no high ball rallies in pro tennis? I imagine any pro could flatten out any high ball for a winner or get a short ball out of it.

But the weirdness of doing it really high on big points, with people looking up into the sun, could get to an opponent under pressure, like Changs underarm serve at the French. I think there may be an element of guilt in winning a point so ugly.

esgee48 08-09-2012 08:54 AM

Google Eddie Dibbs or Harold Solomon, who were both male 'moonballers' par excellence. They were using woodies/metal frames back then, but there's nothing against it in the rules. R. Nadal uses it on his FH.

However, given the racquet technolgy today, most pros or half way decent player would flatten out the shot or hit a swinging volley for a winner.

blipblop 08-09-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaihtDuhShaat (Post 6793513)
Why no high ball rallies in pro tennis? I imagine any pro could flatten out any high ball for a winner or get a short ball out of it.

There are people and pros who use this tactic. Heck, I use it often too. They call them "moonballers." It used to be pretty popular especially on the women's tour. e.g. Anastasia Myskina.

Etiquette? I consider it a very legit strategy. There are ways to deal with it like hitting on the rise, coming in to volley, etc. People who can't adapt deserve to lose to a moonballer as much as a person who can't return fast shots should lose to a hard-hitter.

goran_ace 08-09-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillaxer (Post 6793425)
I just wondered why I'd never seen it ahppen much in pro tennis.

Because of the ability to hit overheads from the baseline.

Jay_The_Nomad 08-09-2012 09:34 AM

Don't forget, on the pro tour there is the entertainment aspect in front of crowds.

Moon balling excessively might be misconstrued by the crowd as trying to take the **** out of your opponent and hence disrespectful.

Imagine this: you're a wild card low ranked player playing federer at centre court. You know you won't beat him so will you try to moonball your way or try to at least hit some nice strokes and have a nice looking match?

As for better players, they don't need to moonball excessively since they got the shots.

Alchemy-Z 08-09-2012 09:51 AM

anyone with a decent overhead will shut down moon balling quickly.

it's great for a defensive dig to buy you time to get back on court...but you give someone to many looks at it and it will become an overhead clinic/

blipblop 08-09-2012 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_The_Nomad (Post 6793689)
Don't forget, on the pro tour there is the entertainment aspect in front of crowds.

Moon balling excessively might be misconstrued by the crowd as trying to take the **** out of your opponent and hence disrespectful.

Imagine this: you're a wild card low ranked player playing federer at centre court. You know you won't beat him so will you try to moonball your way or try to at least hit some nice strokes and have a nice looking match?

As for better players, they don't need to moonball excessively since they got the shots.

I disagree. Yes, entertainment is a factor on the pro tour, but the players don't cater their game to what people want to see. They do what makes them win.

Also, Moonballing can be fun to watch. If not the moonballer himself, watching the two opponents try to adapt and deal with new situations is fun to watch. Anyone in the crowd who thinks it's disrespectful would be wrong. The diversity of tactics/strategies/styles is part of what makes our game so fun.

tennishotdog 08-09-2012 10:14 AM

pros arent weekend hackers so those high lobs arent effective in winning points. but topspin moonballers like nadal and wozniacki are different and it is a very effective counterpuncher/pusher strategy .

maverick66 08-09-2012 10:52 AM

If you give a pro that kind of time to sit on a ball you will lose fast. Really fast. They will place it in a corner with ease. It works on the weekend warriors because they cant place a ball at will. Pros can.

DolgoSantoro 08-09-2012 10:56 AM

The effectiveness of it as a tactic depends on how well you can execute it. I played a good moonballer last week and I just moved him side to side until I could take control of a point. Against a mid level moonballer I just mix up pace spin and depth until they throw up a crappy lob that I can pounce on.

mightyrick 08-09-2012 11:01 AM

The only etiquette around shots that I know of are:

1) In mixed-doubles (or co-ed singles), a man should not rifle 100mph forehands trying to take out the opposing female if she's at net.

2) In singles, if the guy is up at net and you get a floater/sitter which allows you to crush an easy putaway... you don't just peg the guy at net. You pass (or lob) the guy if you are able to.

3) If a loose ball wanders onto the court, you call a let. If you choose not to call a let, you don't hit a shot to the vicinity of the loose ball... and risk your opponent's health.

Other than those things, hit whatever shot gives you success. If your opponent can't run to get a dropper... or can't get into position to take a high ball... then do that all day long.

LuckyR 08-09-2012 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillaxer (Post 6793391)
The percentage of point you can will on high balls and lobs is higher than people might think. I just wonder what the rules, spoken/unspoken are. Is it just not done to hit loads of high balls, rude? Can an umpire intervene? What about quantity of drop shots?

The part of this post I don't understand isn't the part about spoken and unspoken rules... it is the part about "umpires". Who uses umpires, besides Pros or near-Pros? Why would a near-Pro ask a question on TW Forum?

LeeD 08-09-2012 11:45 AM

Unspoken ethics do exist.
Consider, there are almost a hundred guys regularly on tour. Some are liked, some not. Some have friends, some don't. Some get regular practice partners, and lots of guys lining up to be, some need to beg the event organizer to find hitting partners.
So, you play using all the gamesmanship and tactics. Lots of pure hitters would look down at you. Lots of pure hitters on the tour.
Think of yourself. Would you hang around a shyster/flim flam guy who uses all the gray tactics when he plays a match?
Or would you rather hang with a pure hitter, who plays the game clean.

sureshs 08-09-2012 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillaxer (Post 6793523)
But the weirdness of doing it really high on big points, with people looking up into the sun, could get to an opponent under pressure, like Changs underarm serve at the French. I think there may be an element of guilt in winning a point so ugly.

You see it more frequently on the WTA. Patty Schneider was a good moonballer. It probably is not that effective against men.

Also remember that pro tennis is about entertainment. They need to show a high level of play excuse the pun. It is not just about tennis, but also about the image.

Chillaxer 08-09-2012 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyR (Post 6794046)
The part of this post I don't understand isn't the part about spoken and unspoken rules... it is the part about "umpires". Who uses umpires, besides Pros or near-Pros? Why would a near-Pro ask a question on TW Forum?

No, I wasn't referring to me with umpires, just wondering about the pro game. I still think there's way more situations where if a guy was purely wanting to get in his opponents head, sun was in his eyes, at certain junctures, I'd expect it more, that's all.

LeeD 08-09-2012 01:09 PM

It's called gamesmanship, smart tennis, or win at all costs tennis.
You won't gather many friends, or hitting partners.
OTOH, you might get a couple more winds than just playing clean tennis.

aced_Tezuka 08-09-2012 01:11 PM

Whenever I play with my mates it's pretty much unacceptable. We rarely have to establish that rule.

In games it happens a lot with other teams (lobs and such), but we can't say anything about it so we just smash back at them. lol


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