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-   -   The USTA wants self rates by whatever means necessary (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=435558)

dizzlmcwizzl 08-09-2012 03:25 PM

The USTA wants self rates by whatever means necessary
 
Just venting ... feel free to pile on or call me out, whatever works for you

For the third year in a row we are advancing to sectionals knowing we are at a severe disadvantage because all of our players are established league players. On the other 5 teams there are a total of 24 self rated self rated players. One team has 8 self rated players on a roster of 15. The self rated players at sectionals have cumulative record of 132 - 18. Most of those 18 loses were from 3 self rated players on perhaps the worst team. If you take out those three players the cumulative record of the self rates is an astounding 127-6.

How is it that the USTA could create a system where long time established consumers have little or no chance to to earn their flagship product ... a National Championship? Instead they have a system that rewards teams who bring in self rated players already playing at, or above the top of the rating level.

Maybe this is what it is all about ... bringing in new players into the USTA by whatever means necessary.

Yes I had a lot of time on my hands today and FWIW every one of our players has been a computer rated 4.0 for at least 4 years.

West Coast Ace 08-09-2012 03:29 PM

Sure you didn't want to type 'USTA wants $$$$ by whatever means necessary'?

floridatennisdude 08-09-2012 03:51 PM

Yep, you are the consistent revenue stream the USTA banks on. They know they've got you so the only way to grow their business is to entice new customers. By whatever means they can justify. Self rates aren't going to be discouraged.

Same reason companies give you half off cable for 12 months, waive activation fees, etc, etc. They've got you and you are just f'd.

West Coast Ace 08-09-2012 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl (Post 6794835)
Yes I had a lot of time on my hands today and FWIW every one of our players has been a computer rated 4.0 for at least 4 years.

Why don't you take next yr off - and just take your team (and maybe another team or two in the same boat - real 4.0s with no sandbaggers) and have tournaments, ladders, etc. next year among yourselves. Sounds like you have a decent number of players with similar skills who (although you don't say) get along. You may never go back to USTA leagues.

Kostas 08-09-2012 04:14 PM

lol @ the guy going to sectionals for the THIRD straight year *****ing about how he can't compete.

How do you think all the teams in your local league, regional and state feel about you winning the state championship three years in a row?

TeflonTom 08-09-2012 04:16 PM

never rlly understood the point of national champs anyway

go to all that effort 2 prove u r the best players in the country not 2 be rated at the next level up

any1 who makes sectionals 3yrs in a row are prolly sandbaggers anyway, just smart enough about it 2 avoid gettin bumped

dizzlmcwizzl 08-09-2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kostas (Post 6794929)
lol @ the guy going to sectionals for the THIRD straight year *****ing about how he can't compete.

How do you think all the teams in your local league, regional and state feel about you winning the state championship three years in a row?

OH .. they complained and we don't blame them. We started a 4.5 team last year and almost everyone played up expecting to get the bump. We even played well at sectionals the last two years ... finishing a close second the first year and last year we lost 5 MTB combined in the two matches we lost.

We are a good team that has many players who should easily get moved up in November. Everyone of those players has a well earned 4.0 rating that has gotten better over the last 4 years while we were together ... yet we are going into this sectional tourney just like the last two. Chances are a team with at least 4 self rated players in the starting lineup will go to nationals. Compare that to us ... a team that has been dominant and together for several years that likely has no chance.

Jack the Hack 08-09-2012 04:26 PM

This is not shocking at all. From 2006 to 2009, I was a part of several league championship teams that advanced to Sectionals using veteran League players. During that time period, the team that beat us at Sectionals and advanced to Nationals was always stocked with 4 or more self rated studs (who, coincidently, were also the best players on those teams). Over those 4 seasons, the accummulative records of these self rated players were very similar to what you have calculated for your region.

Both I and my co-captain wrote numerous e-mails to the USTA, and talked with officials about this in person whenever we had the chance. To fix the problem, we suggested a modification that self rated players would be able to play in the local league, but would be ineligible for the playoffs in the first season. Another idea was to make it so self rated players would have to a minimum of 6 or 8 matches before being playoff eligible (making it more likely that they would strike out). Either way, we thought this might help weed out the ringers... because the cheating with the self rating system is a disgrace! However, here we are several years later, and nothing has changed.

For what it's worth, I took on 3 self rated players this year for the first time on my 4.5 team. (If you can't beat them, join them... right?) Two of them had played D1 tennis in the 80's and another was ranked #1 in our section in his age group. However, all three of my players were over the age of 42 (which is how they were able to get 4.5 ratings - we didn't cheat). They were all key contributors to our wins, and my team made the local playoffs again. Unfortunately, another local team stocked themselves with 4 self rated players, all under the age of 30, who seemed to be 5.0+. One of them was a recent graduate of a ranked D3 team, who I would have filed a grievance against if they had played him against us (he was saved for the final). In addition, they have a huge cheater on their team that self rated at 4.0 a couple seasons ago despite a couple state high school championships and a good D1 college career, and now has an untouchable computer rating. The USTA knows about that guy because a grievance was filed, but they refused to act on it because of his computer rating (although they acknowledged that he never should have been allowed to self rate at 4.0). It was bitter to lose against those guys, but I figure they will all be bumped to 5.0 next year, where my guys will still be at 4.5. Besides, since most of my team is 40+, I'm looking forward to that division next year (where hopefully there will be less self rating abuse).

On that note, I'm just curious how many of these self rated ringers you've researched are under the age of 40?

My guess is that it's close to 90% or more.

OrangePower 08-09-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Coast Ace (Post 6794927)
Why don't you take next yr off - and just take your team (and maybe another team or two in the same boat - real 4.0s with no sandbaggers) and have tournaments, ladders, etc. next year among yourselves. Sounds like you have a decent number of players with similar skills who (although you don't say) get along. You may never go back to USTA leagues.

Actually, I would imagine dizzl and many of his teammates will get bumped up to 4.5.

Since they will then have no chance of making playoffs, that will mercifully free them of all this nonsense, and allow them to focus on enjoying good challenging regular-season matches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeflonTom (Post 6794937)
never rlly understood the point of national champs anyway

go to all that effort 2 prove u r the best players in the country not 2 be rated at the next level up

any1 who makes sectionals 3yrs in a row are prolly sandbaggers anyway, just smart enough about it 2 avoid gettin bumped

Much as it pains me to do so, I agree with TT :-)

dizzlmcwizzl 08-09-2012 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower (Post 6794962)
Much as it pains me to do so, I agree with TT :-)

Don't do that ...

However, after reading about how we must be sand baggers ... I went back and found that everyone one of our starting lineup played and won at least 1 match at 4.5 this year. Several of us more than one.

Now, perhaps some of us should have been moved up earlier, but everyone one of us is trying to challenge ourselves and get moved up. No one on our team is playing to lose in other sections and all the players that matter are actually playing and winning while playing up at the next level.

dizzlmcwizzl 08-09-2012 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower (Post 6794962)
Actually, I would imagine dizzl and many of his teammates will get bumped up to 4.5.

Since they will then have no chance of making playoffs, that will mercifully free them of all this nonsense, and allow them to focus on enjoying good challenging regular-season matches.

I would like to go back to looking up at the pack. There was less pressure to win, and more emphasis on getting better when I was at the bottom of the pack.

dizzlmcwizzl 08-09-2012 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Hack (Post 6794959)
Besides, since most of my team is 40+, I'm looking forward to that division next year (where hopefully there will be less self rating abuse).

On that note, I'm just curious how many of these self rated ringers you've researched are under the age of 40?

My guess is that it's close to 90% or more.

Dont know them ... just their names and records but you are probably right.

We only have two under 40 (singles). I have always thought that the senior division is less filled with the self rate scourge ... I too am looking forward to the new age groupings.

TeflonTom 08-09-2012 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl (Post 6795023)
However, after reading about how we must be sand baggers ... I went back and found that everyone one of our starting lineup played and won at least 1 match at 4.5 this year. Several of us more than one.

this just proves what a farce the whole system is. even if u didnt have self-rates in usta playoffs they would still be dominated by teams like urs, computer rated but still full of ppl who should be playin at the next level up anyway

i really dont see the point in gettin bent outta shape about one particular vagary of a system that is inherently stupid. the idea of a national championships for a league where by definition the best ppl shouldnt be playin in it is ridiculous. u kinda need to accept that premise from the outset

West Coast Ace 08-10-2012 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeflonTom (Post 6794937)
never rlly understood the point of national champs anyway

go to all that effort 2 prove u r the best players in the country not 2 be rated at the next level up

Great line. So true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl (Post 6794952)
OH .. they complained...

Aw. I was feeling bad for you until you added some detail.

escii_35 08-14-2012 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl (Post 6795042)
We only have two under 40 (singles). I have always thought that the senior division is less filled with the self rate scourge ... I too am looking forward to the new age groupings.

I have a feeling 4.0 and 4.5 self rates will be smidgen unusual and attract some scrutiny in the new 40yo bracket.

As for a playoff wait for self rates between 3.5 - 4.5 yes.

West Coast Ace 08-14-2012 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower (Post 6794962)
Actually, I would imagine dizzl and many of his teammates will get bumped up to 4.5.

I completely defer to your Knowledge. But why now? He said his team has been very successful 3 yrs in a row?

And I still stand by my point - if he truly feels the USTA is flawed (and he'll get no complaints from me), he should take a year off and create his own league. He has plenty of equally matched players - might be refreshing. And send a small message to the USTA.

hcb0804 08-14-2012 05:35 PM

I played a guy Sunday at 4.0, my rating and I should honestly be a 3.5. The guy I played against has a backhand like Tommy Haas ,
serve like Isner, and was a self rated add on to his team. What a shock. His team already had a guy DQ'd mid season who had self rated. The score was 6-1, 6-3, only because he purposely hit 4 double faults in one game and started obviously tanking points in the second set. If Usta is telling me Im a 4.0, this guy was at least a 5.0. Usta ratings blow.

2ndServe 08-14-2012 05:52 PM

how do you see if they are self rated?

hcb0804 08-14-2012 06:41 PM

It was the first season he ever played USTA.

J_R_B 08-14-2012 06:42 PM

South Jersey is in the same boat as you with a team with few self-rates and almost all starters B-rated. That should be a fun match.

And I have it on good authority that the Philly team will be a mere shell of the team that swept districts.


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