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-   -   love and hate relationships in the 70īs and 80īs rivalries (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=436574)

kiki 08-19-2012 04:05 AM

love and hate relationships in the 70īs and 80īs rivalries
 
The deepth and contrast of characters in the 70īs and 80īs, gave a big boost to the rivalries, beyond the contrast of styles and technichal aspects.

Here is, based on what I saw, the main rivalries under that angle.

Laver vs Rosewall: mates and sporting rivals, could accept being beaten by the other
Newcombe vs Laver: more hate than love.Same for Laver-Roche, a very torrid rivalry
Newcombe vs Rosewall: they liked each other. in a similar way as Laver and Emerson did.
Nastase vs Borg: loved each other
Kodes and Nastase: good friends, never took bad to be beaten by the other
Smith vs Nastase: real hate, too diferent
Newcombe vs Smith: very sporting guys but more hate than love, both very prideful people
Borg and Ashe: liked and respected each other.Asheīs only bas relationship was vs Connors, who disliked so much Arthur.Ashe, instead, liked geniously Mc Enroe
Connrs and Mac, Mac and Lendl, Lend land Jimmy: needless to say.The heat in their meetings left no air left.

Borg vs Mac: liked each other, even if going through the possibly greatest moderne ra rivalry.Culturally, I always found them to be pretty similar, quite liberal both and willing to experience
Connors and Borg: respected each other but somewhat, more hate than love
Borg vs Vilas: disliked each other.Vilas and Connors hated each other.Vilas and mac were pretty good friends, but never had a big rivalry, other than Davis Cup
Vilas and Clerc: disliked each other
Gerulaitis vs anybody else: not possible to dilike Gerulaitis.Of couse, lendl was the only guy to REALLY HATE Vitas and I can see why
Connors vs Tanner: not so muc talked but, a lot of hate between both of them.maybe that started when they were both juniors (Tanner was probably the guy that most supported Ashe in the 75 final)
Connors and Smith hated each other.Connors liked a lot Nastase ( although they never played a major final against each other) and liked pretty much Kodes
Newcombe vs Copnnors: hate
Ashe vs Laver: almost hate.Ashe was more anxious to beat Laver than to beat Rosewall or even Newcombe 8 Newc and Ashe were pretty good friends)

Becker and Edberg: liked each other, in spite of their fierce rivalry
Becker and Wilander: not too much love, Mats could not stand Boris coockyness
Edberg and Wilander: rivals from their early years.Similar to Connors vs Tanner but not so torrid
Lendl liked Edberg...but Lendl disliked a lot Wilander and hated Becker
Connors liked Becker but disliked Wilander and Edberg, although there was no rivalry ( Connors was getting old when they reached their peak)
Mac disliked Becker and Wilander and him were pretty good friends, in spite of some macīs criticism.Probably, Mac saw in Mats the guy that would fill the void left by Borgīs retiriement, that he resented so much

I donīt know about Mac and Edberg.I know Mac disliked a bit Cash ( although they became quite close in the long term) and Cash couldnīt stand neither Lendl, neither Becker.However, was in good terms with Wilander

Any opinions? any other rivalries forgotten?

kiki 08-19-2012 04:09 AM

Panatta was also close to Vilas, Nastase, Borg and, for a while Connors.curiously enough, he and Gerulaitis were not too close, however.

The olny guy he hated was, obviously....Lendl and also, although to a lesser extent, JMac.

jean pierre 08-19-2012 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6817473)
The deepth and contrast of characters in the 70īs and 80īs, gave a big boost to the rivalries, beyond the contrast of styles and technichal aspects.

Here is, based on what I saw, the main rivalries under that angle.

Laver vs Rosewall: mates and sporting rivals, could accept being beaten by the other
Newcombe vs Laver: more hate than love.Same for Laver-Roche, a very torrid rivalry
Newcombe vs Rosewall: they liked each other. in a similar way as Laver and Emerson did.
Nastase vs Borg: loved each other
Kodes and Nastase: good friends, never took bad to be beaten by the other
Smith vs Nastase: real hate, too diferent
Newcombe vs Smith: very sporting guys but more hate than love, both very prideful people
Borg and Ashe: liked and respected each other.Asheīs only bas relationship was vs Connors, who disliked so much Arthur.Ashe, instead, liked geniously Mc Enroe
Connrs and Mac, Mac and Lendl, Lend land Jimmy: needless to say.The heat in their meetings left no air left.

Borg vs Mac: liked each other, even if going through the possibly greatest moderne ra rivalry.Culturally, I always found them to be pretty similar, quite liberal both and willing to experience
Connors and Borg: respected each other but somewhat, more hate than love
Borg vs Vilas: disliked each other.Vilas and Connors hated each other.Vilas and mac were pretty good friends, but never had a big rivalry, other than Davis Cup
Vilas and Clerc: disliked each other
Gerulaitis vs anybody else: not possible to dilike Gerulaitis.Of couse, lendl was the only guy to REALLY HATE Vitas and I can see why
Connors vs Tanner: not so muc talked but, a lot of hate between both of them.maybe that started when they were both juniors (Tanner was probably the guy that most supported Ashe in the 75 final)
Connors and Smith hated each other.Connors liked a lot Nastase ( although they never played a major final against each other) and liked pretty much Kodes
Newcombe vs Copnnors: hate
Ashe vs Laver: almost hate.Ashe was more anxious to beat Laver than to beat Rosewall or even Newcombe 8 Newc and Ashe were pretty good friends)

Becker and Edberg: liked each other, in spite of their fierce rivalry
Becker and Wilander: not too much love, Mats could not stand Boris coockyness
Edberg and Wilander: rivals from their early years.Similar to Connors vs Tanner but not so torrid
Lendl liked Edberg...but Lendl disliked a lot Wilander and hated Becker
Connors liked Becker but disliked Wilander and Edberg, although there was no rivalry ( Connors was getting old when they reached their peak)
Mac disliked Becker and Wilander and him were pretty good friends, in spite of some macīs criticism.Probably, Mac saw in Mats the guy that would fill the void left by Borgīs retiriement, that he resented so much

I donīt know about Mac and Edberg.I know Mac disliked a bit Cash ( although they became quite close in the long term) and Cash couldnīt stand neither Lendl, neither Becker.However, was in good terms with Wilander

Any opinions? any other rivalries forgotten?


I don't think Vilas and Connors hated each other, even if Connors didn't shake Vilas hands after USO final. And Vilas and Borg were very good friends until 1977-1978, they played the double together a lot of times.

kiki 08-19-2012 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre (Post 6817563)
I don't think Vilas and Connors hated each other, even if Connors didn't shake Vilas hands after USO final. And Vilas and Borg were very good friends until 1977-1978, they played the double together a lot of times.

Connors was never any kind to Vilas, never considered him as a real opponent, not in the Borg and Mac league.I think he had some hard feelings about him, as he also criticized Tiriacīs overcoaching Vilas.

Carsomyr 08-19-2012 06:43 AM

Pretty sure Borg and Vilas were friends.

Limpinhitter 08-19-2012 06:51 AM

I don't remember if it was Nastase or Newcombe who said they didn't like the way Stan Smith smiled during changeovers.

kiki 08-19-2012 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter (Post 6817592)
I don't remember if it was Nastase or Newcombe who said they didn't like the way Stan Smith smiled during changeovers.

I think Newcombe made a comment like that in the 1971 Wimbledon final, he felt down trying to catch a volley and seems that Smith was pulling off a mockery smile, or something like that.

Mustard 08-19-2012 07:53 AM

Connors and Ashe is a lot more complicated than just hate. I've seen them laughing and joking together when Ashe was on TV interviewing Connors. Borg and Vilas were close friends initially, but grew apart after Vilas got closer to Tiriac.

As for Gerulaitis, he obviously didn't like Lendl, as mentioned, and also had a big falling out with Fibak. There was mutual loathing between Gerulaitis and Fibak in their 1980 French Open and 1980 Wimbledon 5-set matches.

Connors and Tanner was always an intense rivalry, but I always thought they had respect more than hate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre (Post 6817563)
I don't think Vilas and Connors hated each other, even if Connors didn't shake Vilas hands after USO final. And Vilas and Borg were very good friends until 1977-1978, they played the double together a lot of times.

Could Connors have shaken Vilas' hand, considering that the court was swamped with fans in an instant following that controversial linecall that ended the match? What was undeniable is that Connors was very bitter about how that match ended.

DMan 08-20-2012 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6817473)
The deepth and contrast of characters in the 70īs and 80īs, gave a big boost to the rivalries, beyond the contrast of styles and technichal aspects.

Here is, based on what I saw, the main rivalries under that angle.

Laver vs Rosewall: mates and sporting rivals, could accept being beaten by the other
Newcombe vs Laver: more hate than love.Same for Laver-Roche, a very torrid rivalry
Newcombe vs Rosewall: they liked each other. in a similar way as Laver and Emerson did.
Nastase vs Borg: loved each other
Kodes and Nastase: good friends, never took bad to be beaten by the other
Smith vs Nastase: real hate, too diferent

Just where do you get this from? Stan Smith had real "hate" for Nastase? As a person or player?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6817473)
Newcombe vs Smith: very sporting guys but more hate than love, both very prideful people

Really? This info is based on......????????

Borg and Ashe: liked and respected each other.Asheīs only bas relationship was vs Connors, who disliked so much Arthur.Ashe, instead, liked geniously Mc Enroe
Connrs and Mac, Mac and Lendl, Lend land Jimmy: needless to say.The heat in their meetings left no air left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6817473)
Borg vs Mac: liked each other, even if going through the possibly greatest moderne ra rivalry.Culturally, I always found them to be pretty similar, quite liberal both and willing to experience

The most over-hyped rivalry.....EVER!

Their temperaments and games were wildly different, so it obviously made for great tennis theater. But they played very little against each other, as Borg bailed out on the game.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6817473)
Connors and Borg: respected each other but somewhat, more hate than love

So outrageously untrue. Yes, Connors claimed after losing to Borg in a Wimbledon final he would follow that SOB (Borg) around the globe in order to beat him. Connors was a fierce competitor who wanted to win. It wasn't in his nature to like any competitor. And he wasn't shy about his feelings. But off the court? They genuinely liked each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6817473)
Borg vs Vilas: disliked each other.

Another outlandish statement. They were the best of buddies on tour in the mid 1970s. The Tiriac-Vilas relationship did affect Borg. But there was no dislike. Unless in Tiriac's mind.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6817473)
Gerulaitis vs anybody else: not possible to dilike Gerulaitis.Of couse, lendl was the only guy to REALLY HATE Vitas and I can see why

Just how do you make up this stuff? Why do you think Lendl "hated" everyone?


Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki (Post 6817473)
Ashe vs Laver: almost hate.Ashe was more anxious to beat Laver than to beat Rosewall or even Newcombe

Ashe "almost hated Laver" I could see why Ashe hated playing Laver, because he lost so often.

Paul Murphy 08-20-2012 03:46 AM

Not sure about "hate" between Lendl and Becker.
Becker spoke about Lendl in his book - I don't remember "hatred".
They also played a little doubles together.
Becker wasn't an unabashed fan - that's safe to say but I think that's about it.

Just wondering where you got the idea that Wilander hated Lendl?
I've never seen a reference to that.

Also, Lendl hating Gerulaitis?
Could you provide some substantiation on that please.

Great Uncle Bulgaria 08-20-2012 11:32 AM

I think the words 'hate' and 'obviously' have been unwittingly mis-used in the original post.

I don't think there are many players who hate each other. There are players who feel they cannot be friends with anyone in such a competitive environment. Somewhere I read Evert told Billie Jean King they could not be friends until after they had retired; Connors was another one. And in any group of people there will some who don't get on and there will be some who are plain vindictive towards everyone.

Becker, Cash, McEnroe all disliked Lendl - they have all mentioned at some point the first two seemed to think he was racist or something. McEnroe IMHO is jealous of Lendl.

Perhaps any animosity between Gerulaitis and Lendl stemmed from Lendl's friendship with Fibak.

I have never heard of Edberg disliking someone or being disliked. Then again I have never heard of Edberg being best of mates with anyone either.

Incidentally the two autobiographies I would most like to read are Lendl and Edberg's but alas I doubt they will ever write them.

kiki 08-20-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Murphy (Post 6820216)
Not sure about "hate" between Lendl and Becker.
Becker spoke about Lendl in his book - I don't remember "hatred".
They also played a little doubles together.
Becker wasn't an unabashed fan - that's safe to say but I think that's about it.

Just wondering where you got the idea that Wilander hated Lendl?
I've never seen a reference to that.

Also, Lendl hating Gerulaitis?
Could you provide some substantiation on that please.

There are things you just notice if you are aware of body language...plus pro jounalist of those years that usually covered the game will tell you a few cases.

Lendl was overhyped against Vitas and so was Vitas vs Lendl.Lendl tried to boom it at Gerulaits body on the ocassion.Maybe cause Lendlīs only real firend on the tour, Wojtek Fibak, had a few arguments against Vitas, and Lendl was somehow influenced by Fibak.

But I thin k, Vitas flamboyant personality was something Lendl really disliked.

BauerAlmeida 08-20-2012 07:12 PM

Borg and Vilas were good friends.

Why the hate between Vitas and Lendl?

You Can't Be Serious 08-20-2012 09:59 PM

Lendl vs. McEnroe
Lendl nearly cracked McEnroe's ribs with a forehand. McEnroe choked the French Open final against Lendl which turned Lendl's career around.

You Can't Be Serious 08-20-2012 10:06 PM

McEnroe/Fleming vs. Stolle/Newcombe at U.S. Open

Talk about some friction those guys went at it on and off the court. I was there and spoke with all involved.

Unfortunately they didn't play enough against each other to consider it a rivalry. Too bad---old school vs new school.

jaggy 08-21-2012 05:27 AM

I was told once by a fan (so no real value regarding evidence) that Stan Smith kind of looked at all the other top players as being too decadent. He was the moral voice or something. Take that any way you want.

Paul Murphy 08-21-2012 06:20 AM

Cash certainly disliked Lendl - it may have been partly due to Cash's friendship with Mc.
Cash was irritated by Lendl's treatment of some players.

Paul Murphy 08-21-2012 06:21 AM

The other Aussies, particularly Masur, were on good terms with Lendl, as was Sampras.

jean pierre 08-21-2012 07:16 AM

I think Vilas and Noah were very good friends.

jaggy 08-21-2012 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Murphy (Post 6822680)
The other Aussies, particularly Masur, were on good terms with Lendl, as was Sampras.

Yes Lendl helped Sampras with conditioning when he was breaking into the tour.


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